Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Scintilla
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Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:29 pm

I am looking into the options in changing my touring bike over to disc brakes. The frame has rear disc mount and I am acquiring a disc fork. I am a bit out of touch on disc brakes and would welcome any advice about the best way to go (cable/hydraulic) and any recommendations on brands & models. I previously have experience with Hayes hydraulic disc brakes on a MTB.

Rigid frame bike, flat bars, running touring pannier racks. I would be looking at the standard 160 mm discs.

robbo mcs
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby robbo mcs » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:15 am

I have trp hy on my touring bike, vivente and came with the bike. They have been great, with zero maintence issues. However, so far i have not needed todisassemble and pack the bike, although I don’t see that being a problem.

Also have shimano hydraulic on the road bike.

What gears shifters? Getting integrated levers to work with that will be an issue in the decision making

Edit: just saw flat bars, so less of an issue

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bychosis
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby bychosis » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:38 am

Coming from an mtb background, and being a regular on an mtb forum es seem to be the most popular. I have Shimano XT, SLX and deore brakes over 3 bikes an no complaints. I chose the first set (XT) because of recommendations, the second (SLX) for cross compatibility of pads and the third (deore) we’re factory fitted no my Trek. I also have some Tektro augira brakes on my flat bar roadie and they are fine for that task. The tektro brakes were factory fitted to a bike that I did a frame swap on.
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brokenbus
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby brokenbus » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:15 pm

You may find that the rear disk caliper interferes with the rack and you may need to get a disk specific rack.
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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:10 pm

Scintilla wrote:I am looking into the options in changing my touring bike over to disc brakes. The frame has rear disc mount and I am acquiring a disc fork. I am a bit out of touch on disc brakes and would welcome any advice about the best way to go (cable/hydraulic) and any recommendations on brands & models. I previously have experience with Hayes hydraulic disc brakes on a MTB.

Rigid frame bike, flat bars, running touring pannier racks. I would be looking at the standard 160 mm discs.
Is there a budget?

I only ask because Shimano Saint gets a lot of love, but is properly expensive when compared to XT and Deore.
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:16 am

robbo mcs wrote:What gears shifters? Getting integrated levers to work with that will be an issue in the decision making

Edit: just saw flat bars, so less of an issue
Flat bar with Rohloff gripshift so no, integrated shifters is something that is immaterial. I just need a separate lever(s) that will clear the gripshifter.
Last edited by Scintilla on Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:19 am

brokenbus wrote:You may find that the rear disk caliper interferes with the rack and you may need to get a disk specific rack.
Hydraulic disc brakes almost never interfere with a rear rack, and I believe some cable discs now no longer do either. Regardless, my rear disc mount is inside the rear triangle, so all clear.

I am hoping to keep to something within $200-300 for the F&R set and thus I am interested in the cable V disc issue.

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Mugglechops
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Mugglechops » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:22 am

I have been running LX Trekking brakes on my ECR for the past 5000plus kms.

I find them to be really good. I replaced my rear pads at about 3000kms and my fronts are still going.

No issues with power or modualtion and I like the extra length in the levers. When I bought mine I think I paid under $100 an end and the pads were only about $15.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:32 pm

Thanks. The sort of info I need and the price looks very good. Darn pads are going to be a problem for me. I am used to replacing the Swisstop Blue rim pads for the Rigida CSS rims about every 20,000-25,000 kms.

No issues with the hydraulic piston in the lever clashing with anything on your bars?

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Mugglechops » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:35 am

No issues. I do run Jones bars though.

The extra pad wear is ok when you can pull up fully loaded downhill from 60kmh with one finger.

Plus my bike gets ridden in all weather and through mud most days.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby rangersac » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:46 am

Scintilla wrote:Flat bar with Rohloff gripshift so no, integrated shifters is something that is immaterial. I just need a separate lever(s) that will clear the gripshifter.
Easy then with flat bars. Deore/ SLX will do they job very nicely for not much coin, and are very low maintenance. I would recommend going 180mm on the front though. Depend on how much you weigh, and what's in the panniers, you could have a fair bit of heft to pull up, and the larger disc will give you better modulation.
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bychosis
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby bychosis » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:16 am

rangersac wrote:
Scintilla wrote:Flat bar with Rohloff gripshift so no, integrated shifters is something that is immaterial. I just need a separate lever(s) that will clear the gripshifter.
Easy then with flat bars. Deore/ SLX will do they job very nicely for not much coin, and are very low maintenance. I would recommend going 180mm on the front though. Depend on how much you weigh, and what's in the panniers, you could have a fair bit of heft to pull up, and the larger disc will give you better modulation.
I was disappointed my new trail based MTB was 'down-specced' with Deore brakes and looked at upgrading straight away. I have not been disappointed in the performance and haven't bothered with the upgrade. As the brakes are internally routed it would mean bleeding them, rather than just bolting my XT's on.
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:27 pm

Advice from my LBS is leaning me towards Avid BB7 cable discs for reliability and ease of service/repairs.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby rangersac » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:43 pm

Scintilla wrote:Advice from my LBS is leaning me towards Avid BB7 cable discs for reliability and ease of service/repairs.
My advice is to find another LBS. BB7s are good brakes, but unlike hydraulic systems you have to adjust for pad wear, and I have never manged to get cable discs to run as silently as hydraulic. The only routine maintenance difference is bleeding vs a cable change, however I've had Shimano hydros run for years without any bleeding required. Even when it is required it's a pretty straightforward procedure once you've done it a few times, and doesn't take much longer than fiddling about with cable tension.
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby march83 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:44 pm

If you go the cable route try and get compression-less outers like Yokozuna reaction or jagwire road pro.

I've only casually used bb7s and I wasn't blown away by them, but they were good enough and the serviceability is extremely practical for a tourer.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:23 pm

rangersac wrote:BB7s are good brakes, but unlike hydraulic systems you have to adjust for pad wear, and I have never manged to get cable discs to run as silently as hydraulic. The only routine maintenance difference is bleeding vs a cable change, however I've had Shimano hydros run for years without any bleeding required. Even when it is required it's a pretty straightforward procedure once you've done it a few times, and doesn't take much longer than fiddling about with cable tension.
The LBS is a very reputable one. He cited the concern, as well as bleeding, of a damaged/torn hydraulic housing (admittedly rare) when in a remote location - places I am often touring in. Doing repairs to a cable/housing for cable discs is pretty routine in the bush. Not so for hydraulics.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby rangersac » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Scintilla wrote:The LBS is a very reputable one. He cited the concern, as well as bleeding, of a damaged/torn hydraulic housing (admittedly rare) when in a remote location - places I am often touring in. Doing repairs to a cable/housing for cable discs is pretty routine in the bush. Not so for hydraulics.
If you were really off the beaten track then I can see the value of cables, but even then I think the issue is often overstated. I've been mountain biking on hydraulic discs for 15 years both singly and with group rides (gulp!) and have never seen a hydraulic hose get punctured. And I'd reckon mountain biking is far more likely to result in hose failure than touring given the aggressive nature of the riding, and not infrequent bailouts that can be required!
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:41 pm

When I say "remote locations" I am referring to a bit more than out in a forest area...... places like Gibb River Rd in the Kimberleys, outback back roads, Cape York, etc. Places where a failure (however rare) may be catastrophic, and a looong way from repairs. Admittedly, braking may be less critically impacted, due to less severe terrain, but you can always be surprised.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby rangersac » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Fair enough, if that's where you are going I'd want to adopt the KISS principle as well. And BB7s are the best of the cable operated calipers I have used, although there's a fair bit of love floating around for TRP Spyres as an alternative
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Thoglette » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:58 pm

Scintilla wrote:When I say "remote locations" I am referring to a bit more than out in a forest area...... places like Gibb River Rd in the Kimberleys, outback back roads, Cape York, etc. Places where a failure (however rare) may be catastrophic, and a looong way from repairs.
So, given this context, what's the driver for discs ?? Sounds like linear-pull on 26" inch rim territory where you can get spares from any abandon'd MTB?

I have to admit to toying with a disc rears but it's still a lot of mucking about.
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby RonK » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:32 pm

bychosis wrote:
rangersac wrote:
Scintilla wrote:Flat bar with Rohloff gripshift so no, integrated shifters is something that is immaterial. I just need a separate lever(s) that will clear the gripshifter.
Easy then with flat bars. Deore/ SLX will do they job very nicely for not much coin, and are very low maintenance. I would recommend going 180mm on the front though. Depend on how much you weigh, and what's in the panniers, you could have a fair bit of heft to pull up, and the larger disc will give you better modulation.
I was disappointed my new trail based MTB was 'down-specced' with Deore brakes and looked at upgrading straight away. I have not been disappointed in the performance and haven't bothered with the upgrade. As the brakes are internally routed it would mean bleeding them, rather than just bolting my XT's on.
Deore M6000 brakes are doing an excellent job of hauling up my new e-mtb. The calipers are fitted with massively finned pads and with 200 and 180 mm rotors two-finger stopping is a piece of cake.
Last edited by RonK on Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Duck! » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:04 pm

M8000 are XT... M6000 Deore share the same fundamental design, so are equally as powerful as SLX, XT & XTR, they just differ in materials. Additionally, SLX are identical to XT, except they delete one adustment screw.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby Scintilla » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:13 pm

Thoglette wrote:So, given this context, what's the driver for discs ?? Sounds like linear-pull on 26" inch rim territory where you can get spares from any abandon'd MTB?

I have to admit to toying with a disc rears but it's still a lot of mucking about.
Improved wet-conditions performance, both on tour fully-loaded in the bush and mountains, and for commuting uses which the bike also does plenty of. The bike has rear-disc mounts, and I now have the front disc-fork ready to go.

I reckon just rear disc-brakes are generally of minimal value; most braking power comes from the front end, even when carrying a touring load.

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby robbo mcs » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:27 am

Scintilla wrote:When I say "remote locations" I am referring to a bit more than out in a forest area...... places like Gibb River Rd in the Kimberleys, outback back roads, Cape York, etc. Places where a failure (however rare) may be catastrophic, and a looong way from repairs. Admittedly, braking may be less critically impacted, due to less severe terrain, but you can always be surprised.
It would have to be something truly catastrophic to take out both front and rear brakes. Hydro discs are so good, and so easy to modulate, that in "catastrophic" circumstances you could probably get back to civilisation quite easily with only one set of brakes.

I just think that the performance of hydro, and ease of maintenence is much better than cable. You will use the brakes thousands upon thousands of times, and it is nice to have the ones that are easiest to live with on a daily basis, IMHO

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Re: Disc brakes for touring/commuting.

Postby find_bruce » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:13 am

If you are concerned, a spare REAR hose & fluid won’t take up much space & is as easy enough to replace.

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