Tubulars - are they really worth it?

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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby orbeas » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:16 pm

tripstobaltimore wrote:
orbeas wrote:should tubs be glued on without rim tape??
as iv remouved the tyre and there is no rim tape..
thx 8)


:shock:

no rim tape!!!

phew thanks!!
A note for other tubular users that may be use full;
iv been using some flat proof stuff in the tubs for over a year
Summers here i went to pump the tubs up and air is excaping from arround the side walls, (lucky i bought 2 tubs last year for spares).
IS This a coincident or have others found leaving flat proof goo in the tubulars damaging to the tubes?
thx 8)
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by BNA » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:30 pm

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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:30 pm

orbeas wrote:should tubs be glued on without rim tape??
as iv remouved the tyre and there is no rim tape..
thx 8)


Aaah no, you don't use rim tape when glueing. :)
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby Chaderotti » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:27 pm

Gluing tubs to rim tape?
Amazing!
Let's say it adds 4 seconds in a 40 km TT and make millions.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby Chaderotti » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:07 pm

There are so many conflicting opinions.
Some say tape is better than glue, others say it's suicidal.
Glue takes about 6 months to install
Tape takes about 6 minutes.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby foo on patrol » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:13 pm

Don't use tape on the track!! :roll:
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby Chaderotti » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:00 am

Bugga, ordered tape anyway.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby brentono » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:05 am

Chaderotti wrote:Glue takes about 6 months to install


:shock:
(who tells you this sh*te! forum wannabees?)
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Right on Foo. +1

shellac for track


... end of story.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby alex » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:40 pm

you will never roll a tyre with normal glue if it is glued correctly

tyres : vittoria evo pista
glue : conti

you can use shellac if you want, but i dont see any real world reason to do that
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby brentono » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:10 pm

alex wrote:but i dont see any real world reason to do that

Cost (shellac, will do exactly what glue will do, if not better-historically) :lol:

If it's going to be glue, Chad, do it properly.
http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:54 pm

Chaderotti wrote:Bugga, ordered tape anyway.


Give yourself an upper cut Chad and then slap yourself around a bit, so you don't forget! :idea: :lol:

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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby alex » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:06 pm

a 14 page doc on gluing tyres? wow.

the best advice is to keep it simple.

everyone else uses normal glue because it works fine and is easy to source and use.

the only people using shellac are the old skool blokes in their 70s - and probably only because they have been doing it for years and can't be bothered cleaning all the shellac off their rims to use normal glue. at your local track 99.9% of people will be using normal conti or vittoria glue.

go to your local track and you will find that nobody is rolling tyres there, with glue or shellac. it is very rare and they mostly only happen halfway through a crash when you are already sliding on the boards (have a look on youtube). you really need to put some incredible lateral forces on the tyre to get it to roll, like turning your front wheel sideways at 70 km/h.
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby brentono » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:12 am

alex wrote:go to your local track and you will find that nobody is rolling tyres there, with glue or shellac.


You said it. 8)
(that's my point :wink: )
:mrgreen:

incredible lateral forces

Don't mention that here, you'll start a huge debate. :lol:
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby toppity » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:11 pm

brentono wrote:
alex wrote:go to your local track and you will find that nobody is rolling tyres there, with glue or shellac.


You said it. 8)
(that's my point :wink: )
:mrgreen:

incredible lateral forces

Don't mention that here, you'll start a huge debate. :lol:

the engineers are always lurking
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:55 pm

toppity wrote:
brentono wrote:
alex wrote:go to your local track and you will find that nobody is rolling tyres there, with glue or shellac.


You said it. 8)
(that's my point :wink: )
:mrgreen:

incredible lateral forces

Don't mention that here, you'll start a huge debate. :lol:

the engineers are always lurking


Even non-engineers lurk...

However any engineer worth his salt will tell you that there is a performance difference between shellac and glue. This is due to hysteresis losses in a soft glue, that are not present in a hard adhesive such as shellac. This is measurable and is the reason why tubular tyres performed unusually badly in rolling resistance tests done on a steel drum http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/rolling-resistance-tubular.html.

The question would be whether you are running tubulars for convenience or performance. There is no doubt that a road tyre and road glue will perform quite adequately and safely and this is demonstrated every week by others doing just this on the track. I wouldn't be surprised if people are using tape either. If you want to squeeze every last drop of performance from your bike then you should be using track tyres and shellac.

I agonised over this when I was building my wheels and eventually went for clinchers - for convenience, but I mainly ride on outdoor tracks where punctures are more common. (and because I can fix a flat between races without having to borrow a wheel) I went with clinchers principally because with good tyres and latex tubes the performance difference is orders of magnitude less than what can be achieved by hardening up the nut that holds the bars.

Cheers,

Cameron

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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby alex » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:20 am

and anyone who is not losing olympic level races by one thousandth of a second will tell you just to use normal glue like everyone else ;)
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby brentono » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:35 am

alex wrote:and anyone who is not losing olympic level races by one thousandth of a second will tell you just to use normal glue like everyone else ;)


losing olympic level races by one thousandth of a second = Sniff it! :lol:
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:42 pm

Don't you know?

It's all about performance!


Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Tubulars - are they really worth it?

Postby brentono » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:34 am

Cameron,
"Mechanical performance can be bought, physical performance has to be earned."

So true, the clothes, the super light equipment, the right glue... doesn't maketh the champion cyclist.

Reminds me of a funny line...
"In that old Baudrillardian challenge, if one stages a bank robbery
and carries the performance all the way to the bank,
fooling even the teller and guards,
one arguably has succeeded in redefining oneself not as an actor,
but as a bank robber."
:mrgreen:
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