Track Race Report Thread

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KGB
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby KGB » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:35 pm

First night at DGV with Bankstown last night, good turnout which was helped by the huge central coast contingent - well done guys.
I have done a couple of paceline sessions recently but was pretty rusty. I entered A grade and was just hoping not to struggle but managed to place second in the heart starter, win my sprint Derby, 3rd in the mini point score and then cruised home in the bunch in the end of night combined scratch. Pretty happy with that.

I'm building some leg strength but am lacking the core stability and upper body strength to really flick the bike around when out of the saddle at speed. More gym time and commuting on the fixed gear should have that sorted by Christmas.

I'm pumped for track season!
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:50 pm

foo on patrol wrote:Easy fix.............Do plenty of starts, problem solved! :idea: :wink:

Foo
I've been thinking about turning up that the track for a session of simply practicing starts. The only timeslot I can do is at 8.30pm, but the advantage is that I can have the track to myself and I've got access to a start machine (what's the correct name?). I'd like to read some advice on starts before I do it, so I can try to recruit the methodology and not just continue doing what I'm already doing.

I'm also considering lowering my gear, changing the big ring from 50 to 48. Slightly better acceleration and I think top end will be pretty much the same
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:01 pm

With ya starts, Mike, pull out of it as soon as you're on top of the gear for the first 6 and then do another 3 or 4 and keep it going for about 100mtrs.

Do this twice a week on the Track and do three or four on your road days but just toll your on 5op of the gear. [emoji106]

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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:21 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:Easy fix.............Do plenty of starts, problem solved! :idea: :wink:

Foo
I've been thinking about turning up that the track for a session of simply practicing starts. ....... I'd like to read some advice on starts before I do it, so I can try to recruit the methodology and not just continue doing what I'm already doing.

Not sure where you will find such reading. You really need a coach to look at you and tell you what is right and wrong with your technique.
The correct, fastest and most efficient method is something like this:
If possible start with your left pedal at 10 oclock to counteract the track banking on the start. Right foot up can throw the bike down the track, but if thats the most comfortable well its a minor thing
On the second last beep, throw the hips back behind the saddle, as the gun fires you thrust the hips forward throwing the bike out of the gate. Timing must be split second perfect.
Keep your head high and chest upright. Look forward not down. Arms almost straight.
Rather than just pushing down with the pedals, thrust the hips forward in a doggie style motion as per the photo below. Thighs should be thrusting forward and almost hitting the bars.
Employ this method from the start line to halfway into the bend.
From halfway in the bend to the end of the back straight you remain out of the seat but can employ a more traditional style, the kind of thing you do on a road bike when sprinting, ie head down and normal pedalling.
At the end of the back straight when you are on top of the gear, sit down just before you hit turn 3.
This is an excellent photo, lots of things to observe there. Look carefully at the body and head positions.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:35 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. Left leg at 10ock is fine. I'm gathering from that, that the key to a fast start is in using the momentum of you bodyweight to get it going. How about how I apply the force thru the legs?
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:43 pm

Just like I said, its an upright position with a forward rocking type motion. Many people start like they are climbing a hill out of the seat. Its not like that. There are probably some youtube clips of team sprint starts and thing like that you can watch.

Actually, look here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrO8Uuqi2_s

Note the thrusting upright technique employed to the middle of the bend, after that you see the front rider especially move his body forward over the bars and start a normal type of sprint motion.

This is good too, very good actually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NHoVKRSsfI

Its the same technique for a pursuit but you just dont go 100% like you would for a 2 lap TT or a team sprint. Pursuit you go 80% effort only.

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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby KGB » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:44 pm

Power doesn't really come through the legs Mike, more driving from the hips which is why the aussie girls in the photo are rocking so far forward like DD said.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:59 pm

ACTCC - Wednesday track night

Wasn't altogether sure whether to post in this thread or the training thread, since whilst we were on the same track at the same time we weren't really racing anyone because we spend nearly all our time off the back.

That sounds rather grim, but it was actually a really good session on Wednesday night. We put the TT bars on the tandem to see how it would behave, because the Omnium and paracycling champs are this weekend. The tandem events are a Flying 200m, a Pursuit and a Kilo. I also dusted off my bike (literally) and took it down too, since if I had to get a CA license and show up anyway, I might as well race the omnium. :) So I had the plan to race the 'A' grade races on the tandem, and then do the B grade races solo.

It was good thing that I took my bike, because it was so light and twitchy that it took me 10 laps of the scratch race to just feel like I could keep it in a straight line. I also discovered that the bars now seem to be a long way up, but I don't have another stem, so they will have to do.
The other good thing was that that the TT bars were a great success. We felt pretty comfortable on them, so they will stay for the weekend.

I wasn't particularly sure what gear to put on, so I went with the 51*15, which was always my 'big gear for big races' back when the bike saw more regular use. It seems to be good enough, although I suspect I don't pedal as fast now as I used to. (We use a 53*15 on the tandem).



The race results were no good, but that was not the point of the night, and we came away feeling pretty pleased with the outcome.


Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:33 pm

TT bars on a Tandem, would have to be a challenge in itself, wouldn't it, Cameron? :shock: What sort of spacing do you have them at?

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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby KGB » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:24 pm

ACT Omnium champs. Today was the flying 200, scratch and keirin. There is only 3 Masters 2 men but we all seem pretty evenly matched so we had some good racing.
I was third by 0.03s in the 200 (rode 12.8), won the scratch and was 2nd in the keirin. I'm confident the legs can do ok tomorrow - kilo, points and elimination.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:39 pm

KGB wrote:ACT Omnium champs. Today was the flying 200, scratch and keirin. There is only 3 Masters 2 men but we all seem pretty evenly matched so we had some good racing.
I was third by 0.03s in the 200 (rode 12.8), won the scratch and was 2nd in the keirin. I'm confident the legs can do ok tomorrow - kilo, points and elimination.
Wish I knew when when ACT champs were on :( not that I could of made them this year :roll:

Did you race Michael Langdon?
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:46 pm

As for spacing Foo, my thumbs end up pretty close together, because the tips of the bars are only 5cm apart. The centres of the elbow rests are 20cm apart.

In practice they turned out to be pretty good. I didn't do any other modifications to my riding position mainly because this is a one-off and I didn't want to be doing too much which will have to be reversed anyway. Besides, John's position is so cramped that we are a long way from being optimal.

However I now have a race report from Day one.

Day one of the Omnium consisted of 3 races, a flying 200m, a scratch race and a kierin.

I was racing MMAS4 which was only sparsely populated with 4 riders. I thought that the flying 200m was a good way to start since it gives a pretty good indication of where people are at. I rode a technically pretty good race, and I'm fairly sure that I was as fast as I could have gone. The results sheet showed rider 241 had ridden a very respectable 11.5, 238 was second at 13.0, 240 was third at 14.270, and I came in fourth at 14.271. Clearly 241 was in a different league, 238 was significantly better than me, but I was hoping to be competitive with 240.

The scratch race combined MMAS1-5. It wasn't terribly long at 5km, but certainly long enough to do some damage. After a few laps of just rolling around, I had just started my turn on the front when 240 comes past on the attack. I didn't really understand why, but I wound up to speed and chased him down, and swung up when he did. We were still at the back when another move went from the front and neither of us could handle the increase in pace. I found myself following him around at about 10 bike lengths, but try as I might I couldn't close the gap. With a few laps to go it was clear that I was going to get lapped before the finish, so I eased up and timed the catch so that I could come off the banking and latch onto the back. I was hoping that the bunch would reel in 240 as well, but he held them off at least until the sprint started and I was dumped out the back again. I got close, but not close enough. However during the course of the race 241 withdrew, I presume with a mechanical, because he started the next race. However after two races I was two points behind my target. I am going to need to find something if I am going to best him.

The keirin was uneventful. I slipped to the back to keep an eye on my target who was conveniently just in front of me. However after when the pace came on I just didn't have the legs to do any more than follow, so I only managed to get a small overlap on him by the end. Three races down, three points behind, I'm going to need to find something for the next three events, a 750m TT, a Points race and an elimination. I'm considering a bigger gear if the wind is light.


Day one of the Paracycling consisted of two events, a flying 200m and a 4000m pursuit (at least for us). We were the first riders on the track to set a time for the 200m. It wasn't too bad an effort, we were quite happy with a 13.7 for our first ever timed 200m, although we did secretly hope to beat the female tandem (13.12)(they do have loftier ambitions than us but in the pursuit).

The pursuit was to be our first ever held start on a track. We did try to follow the advice above, but we managed to find a new way to make a mess of it. In our post mortem we concluded that John got back nicely ready to go, but when he came forward, his left thigh (we are right foot forward starters) caught hold of the saddle. Of course both of us were putting in a solid effort at the time. This meant that it kept pulling with considerable force, enough to turn his saddle 20 degrees to the right. Of course this through the bike off balance and we immediately found ourselves on the grass before we gathered it up again. However we pressed on, wound up to speed and held it there. In the end we managed a time of 6.03min, just a tad under 45km/h which in the circumstances we were really happy with. We can't really compare to the girls for this one, since they only did a 3000m pursuit, however from the times in looks as if they wouldn't have caught us if it was a head to head race, and we're are ecstatic about that.

Off to bed now to dream of better things.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
KGB wrote:ACT Omnium champs. Today was the flying 200, scratch and keirin. There is only 3 Masters 2 men but we all seem pretty evenly matched so we had some good racing.
I was third by 0.03s in the 200 (rode 12.8), won the scratch and was 2nd in the keirin. I'm confident the legs can do ok tomorrow - kilo, points and elimination.
Wish I knew when when ACT champs were on :( not that I could of made them this year :roll:

Did you race Michael Langdon?


Sort of. We race against him on Wednesdays, but he is quicker than we are. He is also quicker than me on a single bike it seems based on today. However he is MMAS5 now, so I wasn't concerned when he rode away from me this time.

He still wears his DHBC jersey with pride on occasion.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:47 am

You're having a crack, Cameron and that's the main part + you now have a starting point for next years States. :idea:

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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby KGB » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:07 am

Yep Langdon Is there in mmas5 but I've only been on the track with him in the scratch so far.

Cameron, you're doing well considering you're doing extra rides on the tandem as well!
I thought the 200 was a horrible way to start! Mostly because you need a really thorough warmup - I'm lazy and would prefer to ease into it with a scratch race. :)
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby KGB » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:11 am

mikesbytes wrote:Wish I knew when when ACT champs were on :( not that I could of made them this year


I saw a post on the FB track cycling market place group and it was also on the front page of the CyclingACT website.
Small fields but still good racing and great prep with the NSW champs over the next two weekends.

If I'm fit next year, I'll be back. Hopefully with a bigger crew.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:12 am

ironhanglider wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:
KGB wrote:ACT Omnium champs. Today was the flying 200, scratch and keirin. There is only 3 Masters 2 men but we all seem pretty evenly matched so we had some good racing.
I was third by 0.03s in the 200 (rode 12.8), won the scratch and was 2nd in the keirin. I'm confident the legs can do ok tomorrow - kilo, points and elimination.
Wish I knew when when ACT champs were on :( not that I could of made them this year :roll:

Did you race Michael Langdon?


Sort of. We race against him on Wednesdays, but he is quicker than we are. He is also quicker than me on a single bike it seems based on today. However he is MMAS5 now, so I wasn't concerned when he rode away from me this time.

He still wears his DHBC jersey with pride on occasion.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby Chris249 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:28 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Did you race Michael Langdon?


Mike L is the guy I normally aim for on Wednesdays. Great guy to race with - fair, fast and knowledgeable. I've only been able to do a few nights at full pace (as usual, injury problems) but recently we'd been having some great racing until the last two weeks, when I've faded completely. :cry:

This season I found a new joint to injure - the ankles. Luckily I think I have now messed up every single joint in my body so from now on everything should be fine and I may actually be able to do more than 8 days racing in a season for the first time.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:08 pm

Well day 2 has come and gone.

I put the 49*14 on for today, seeing as the gears I used to use weren't working for me. (I think that I need a few weeks behind Derny Driver to learn how to pedal again).

We actually got some split times for our pursuit:

1km - 1:30.95
2km - 1:30.45
3km - 1:32.50
4km - 1.29.71

I was really impressed that we managed to do a negative split with our final km. We were really suffering the last laps seemed to take much longer than that.

Day 2 started with a Kilo on the tandem. We'd discussed our appalling start to the pursuit, and had a couple of strategies to do better. It must have worked because we managed to stay above the black line, and whilst there would be time to gain with more practice it was much faster than the previous start. We had hoped to do better than our first km in the pursuit, and we came away with 1:24 something. We were pretty happy with a 6 second improvement.

Next up was a 666.66m TT. I pulled the bars off the tandem (quill stems do have their advantages) and put them on my bike. I actually quite liked the lower bar position and considered pulling the TT bars off and leaving the other bars on for the rest of the day, but decided against it for simplicity. I was quite happy with my start, I was a little wayward in the corners, getting up to near the red a couple of times but it was about as good as I could do on the day. I came away with a time in the vicinity of 56 seconds which I was pleased with, however Matt was 54, Rod was faster than that and Dan was further in front, so another 4th place for me.

Next was the points race. Dan didn't start, I know he's a sprint specialist but why would you not even try? I was hoping to just hang on, and to sneak a point if it was on offer. However at the first (of four) sprint I was off the back, and try as I might to regain the bunch afterwards I couldn't do it. I watched as a break came away from the group, and made sure that I was high on the bank when they caught me so that I could slip onto the back. I was saddened to see that Matt was part of the breakaway, since that meant that there was no chance (short of disaster) of me getting ahead of him on points now, so I just played ticket collector at the back of the bunch to let them fight it out amongst themselves. I was still pleased to stay with them to the end and finish only 1 lap down. The bigger gear did seem to be working.

Finally was the elimination. After my previous performances I knew that I was the odds-on favourite to be the first one eliminated. However as I told one of the other riders (who was new to track racing), that if you race from the front, then everyone else has to come past you before you can be eliminated, and sometimes they just can't do it. She ended up third in her race when she should have been fourth, I didn't do quite so well, but I did survive a few laps before my number was called, and it was enough to finish ahead of Matt. I still ended up second rather than third, but one point was not enough to close the gap. However with the DNF from Dan I ended up with a Bronze medal.

It was also nice to meet KGB and presumably his brother who had made the effort to come to Canberra from Sydney. I guess the drive home for them would have been satisfying, since they came away with a pair of gold medals for their trouble.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:11 pm

Chris249 wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Did you race Michael Langdon?


Mike L is the guy I normally aim for on Wednesdays. Great guy to race with - fair, fast and knowledgeable. I've only been able to do a few nights at full pace (as usual, injury problems) but recently we'd been having some great racing until the last two weeks, when I've faded completely. :cry:

This season I found a new joint to injure - the ankles. Luckily I think I have now messed up every single joint in my body so from now on everything should be fine and I may actually be able to do more than 8 days racing in a season for the first time.


I absolutely second these comments. Some people you just want to race with, Michael is one of them.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:25 pm

Chris249 wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Did you race Michael Langdon?


Mike L is the guy I normally aim for on Wednesdays. Great guy to race with - fair, fast and knowledgeable. I've only been able to do a few nights at full pace (as usual, injury problems) but recently we'd been having some great racing until the last two weeks, when I've faded completely. :cry:

This season I found a new joint to injure - the ankles. Luckily I think I have now messed up every single joint in my body so from now on everything should be fine and I may actually be able to do more than 8 days racing in a season for the first time.
Didn't realise you lived in/near pollie town, had you mixed up with another Chis.

I too have an ankle injury and that was one of the points of interest when I went to my two half hour sessions 8.30 - 9pm (I work evenings as a fitness instructor), which is an hour more than I trained in 2015. I needed to know how the ankle felt in a start and have given it the seal of approval. My ankle is taking a very long time to get better, hope you find a quicker recovery

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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby Chris249 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:50 am

I moved down here from Leichhardt three years ago, Mike, when my wife got a neuroscience research fellowship at ANU. It's a fantastic place to live, but don't tell anyone....we don't want it getting too crowded.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:14 am

LOL, I'll have to upgrade my coffee purchases :)
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby KGB » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:20 pm

A little later than ironhanglider but here is my Day 2 report of the ACT Omnium. It's a golf score type event, lowest points wins.

We arrived early and parked right next to Cameron so it was good to meet him and have a chat throughout the day.
MMAS2 standings overnight were: Garth 5, KGB 6, Nathan 7. About as tight as it could get! I'd thought ahead and knew I needed a good Kilo to give me a chance of taking gold. If Garth won the kilo, he'd be ahead on "time" (used for countbacks) so that would make it difficult for me. My starts aren't tops this year and that put me behind the 8 ball and I rode a 1:17. I was satisfied given the legs and the bit of breeze coming up but Garth did 1:14 and slaughtered Nathan and I.

Standings after 4 events: Garth 6, KGB 8, Nathan 10. At this stage, by far the most likely outcome for me was silver. A tie on points for first and it would go to Garth, a tie on points for silver and it would go to me with Nathan getting pushed back for bronze.
5th event was the points race, 10km with 4 sprints. The MMAS 3-4-5 were all in the field too. After 2 sprints, all three M2 riders had 4 points each. I kept surging and forcing the pace, without really attacking since I was close to the red zone. This was enough to see me dangling off the front and cause the other M2 riders to crack. I took some more points and easily won the M2 group. Peter Rogers dominated the race, did what he needed to do and nothing more - taking all sprints for a clean sheet. Very impressive ride from an old hand.

Standings after 5 events: Garth 8, KGB 9, Nathan 13. Still looking like the most likely result was a KGB silver medal, I'd need to win and have Garth finish third so I could get gold.
6th and final race was an elimination. I was fairly confident I could win this one, after winning a hard scratch race on Saturday and helping to bust up the Points Race earlier. Garth tried to box me in early on, I pushed out once and he came again so I bumped him a little bit before backing off to come around the outside. I rode 3 wide and just did what I had to do. Garth got caught underneath and was the first M2 eliminated - I had a chance! Nathan had been on the front, down the bottom and everyone was looking a bit flogged so Peter Rogers and I managed to roll over the top of him and get the bell. That was enough to give me the gold for MMAS2! Pete drifted up, I didn't really want him to push me up so bumped him a little and then went high myself in the back straight, took a dive at him and rolled past to take line honours for the race as well.

Overall it was some really good racing and I'm pretty happy to come from behind to take the win in the last event. Now for the NSW champs next week.
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Re: Track Race Report Thread

Postby foo on patrol » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:31 pm

[emoji41] well done, KGB[SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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