Used track bike - what to look for?

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Xplora
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Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:45 pm

Had a cursory look at the Track sales FB page and it seems they are a different world to the road bikes. Sugino? Octalink BBs? :shock:

If you aren't a sprinter, currently run a 56cm H2 Madone fitted by Mr Hogg (low seat post etc), at 6 foot tall, what should you be looking for in a track bike that will probably be sold to a friend if DGV fever takes hold? Right now I'm just about down to "do I like the colour?" in all seriousness. Geometry is completely different, wheels are completely different :lol:

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KGB
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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby KGB » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:45 pm

Octalink bb's were a good idea - except for the part where the bearings failed so often. This wasn't a problem on the track so they were pretty popular.
External bb cranksets haven't really caught on and I honestly can't see why. A SRAM Omnium would be on my track bike right now if I had the cash. Seals removed, of course.
In any case, popular cranks are DA, record pista and a couple of sugino models - all three piece designs.

In other areas, weight bows down to stiffness. Deep rims, plenty of spokes, sturdy frames. High flange hubs, preferably with sealed (cartridge) bearings.

Traditional track bars have very rounded tops, it gives more room for your forearms when sprinting and apart from the madison it is actually illegal to race with you hands anywhere but the drops (ignoring tt events). Having said that, lots of people use road bars and plenty of them go faster than me with my track bars.

Do you have a budget? I'm assuming it's an entry level thing?
I generally recommend something like the Avanti Pista or Giant Omnium. Decent alloy frames with not so rubbish components. Wheels are usually pretty plain but theres an excuse for the first upgrade. With some nice "race wheels" they are a competitive machine at almost any level.
I just picked up a Dolan Pre Cursa for my brother that fits the above description for $360 on fleabay but generally expect to pay between 500-1000.
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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby dalai47 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:54 pm

Plenty of BB options like with road bikes. :wink: Don't be too bothered which BB it uses, more important crank length is right and is 144 BCD.

Best bang for buck is a mid range aluminium frameset complete bike. I bought a new 08 Fuji track pro when I started racing track and did me well for years; only replaced after writing it off last year!

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Xplora
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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:07 pm

What's the right crank length? I'm using 175s on the road bike, but part of me is secretly intrigued by shorter cranks anyways. I'm under the impression that shorter cranks are par for the course here. What about top tube length? Is it a case of see how the loan bike feels and work with that? Budget can be juggled. 500 bucks for a used bike isn't bad, the cost of driving the bike to a track and so forth ends up being the biggest expense ongoing.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby brawlo » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:14 pm

Best place to start size wise would be to match your road bike in TT length. In the olden days it was standard to go shorter as with the 'square' frame sizes you had to do this to get the front lower for aggressive track positioning. Not so these days. Start with something cheapish in a comparable size and if you like the sport, no doubt you'll be changing things up sooner of later. Upgradeitis is not confined to road bikes!

As for crank length, same story may be to stick with the same size as the roadie. It doesn't really matter though. Changing crank length means you just adjust the gearing to suit. Shorter cranks make it easier to spin, longer just mean you spin slower but compensate with a larger gear.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby dalai47 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:33 pm

Xplora wrote:What's the right crank length?


Million dollar question :lol:

I use 175s on my road, TT, MTB and CX bikes. 170 on my track bikes...

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Frostee » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:13 pm

Crank length is limited to the track you are riding on, I thought. The cranks are generally shorter to provide clearance on the banking.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby minhyy » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:53 pm

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=85770 :!: :idea: :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

SRAM Omniums are the truth. Square taper cranks also good
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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:07 pm

I am guessing this would be mainly used at the 42 degree DGV...

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby dalai47 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:25 pm

If it is true track bike geometry and not a hipster track bike with road geometry 170s will be fine.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby foo on patrol » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:55 am

I ran/run 170mm for Track and 175 for road. I have a Fuji 2.0 Track frame and it is nice and still. Frame is aloy but CF front forks. You should be able pick up a complete bike for between $500 and $1000 and in very good condition.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:47 pm

Quick question, why can't you use a 130bcd crank? Really easy to pick up 170mm power meters... I mean it is obvious that there are issues with swapping chain rings in a setup like that, but there must be a reason boofheada like me arent doing it?

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby QuangVuong » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:10 pm

Everything track is available in 144BCD. There are 1/8th rings in 130BCD, but the availability is not as great as in 144bcd. Don't be like me and use a 110bcd crank. To find 1/8th rings is almost impossible, unless I get custom made rings.

Road power meter cranks on the track has been done. And you can get a useful adaptor to get 144bcd with correct chainline. Someone like Bergstrom Technologies, amongst other companies do make them.
https://www.facebook.com/BergstromTechnologies
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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:31 pm

Ahhhh I forgot the chains are different. Oops. Adaptor FTW :)

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby march83 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:04 pm

I run a wired SRM on my track bike with 170mm arms and a skinny BB. chainline is pretty good, good enough.

problem is that this probably isn't the cheapest or most convenient way to get power onto a track bike these days. you'd need to get a working wired SRM + loom + PCV, then find a set of 170mm arms which aren't super common (ask on the wattage list). Then, once you've finished you need to use SRMWIN to get the file to wherever it's going. It needs to go through Golden Cheetah too if you want it on Strava. the finished article has a wire taped to the frame and you're relying on your PCV which is like 15 years old to keep on ticking...

A track stages is probably good enough for track training/racing purposes. A 2nd hand s975 quarq would do it too (pretty sure they can deal with reverse torque), but you have no options for improving chainline. an ant+ option would make workflow for getting the data into your training software just a little bit easier.

as for 110, 130 and 144, blackspire and stronglight make decent 130bcd rings in proper track tooth counts, but all the nicest stuff is in 144.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:17 pm

I'm guessing powertap is going to be the smartest cheapest way forward if I wanted power. Stages, no thanks.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby dalai47 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:29 pm

You can find 130BCD rings as mentioned and people can get the chain line close enough. Current discussion on using road power meters fixed http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... pic=102807 Cheaper option of the 110BCD adapter plate is available from http://www.bdopcycling.com/Track%20Parts-ADAPTOR.asp and will allow you to use 144 BCD rings with correct chainline.

Not sure why you want to post track data onto Strava though march83?? I've heard conflicting stories about road SRMs handling the negative torque so good to hear yours is working though. I picked up an SRM Amateur incl BB for $100 to put on my fixed commuter (addicted to data!) so will find out for myself soon... Old wired SRM's are pretty bombproof, so although old tech they just keep on working and can be had really cheap. Last SRM Pro I bought complete with fresh batteries was just over $200 delivered!

Not sure why you are worrying about power before getting the bike though Xplora? To be honest as much I am power nerd, I've found having power of least benefit on the track other than pursuits to record output and data for review and preparation for subsequent pursuits... The track is one place where a simple computer to record speed, cadence and take splits works well.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Xplora » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:31 am

When minhyy is offering frames etc it's useful to take stock of the options and opportunities, because track bikes are very very different and I wouldn't ride regularly as a blush and giggle affair, I would train and race and I suspect that power to measure progress as thr races are shorter and more intense would be helpful to me. If I could put a bike with power onto the track for 400-600 why not

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby march83 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:08 am

@dalai, i use golden cheetah for real analysis, but I still want my strava database to include all my rides. Keeps the strava PMC and MMP charts inline with the truth

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby kb » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:42 am

march83 wrote:@dalai, i use golden cheetah for real analysis, but I still want my strava database to include all my rides. Keeps the strava PMC and MMP charts inline with the truth

Except that Strava don't keep a weight or FTP history so mostly in a truthy direction.
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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby march83 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:09 am

yeah, I guess.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:18 am

Why isn't 3/32" ring used on trsck now? I've taken the 1/8" off mine and am using all my rings from my road bike. [emoji6]

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby dalai47 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:17 am

Fair enough march83. Was thinking more on the lines of strava tracking routes rather than metrics.

Xplora wrote:When minhyy is offering frames etc it's useful to take stock of the options and opportunities, because track bikes are very very different and I wouldn't ride regularly as a blush and giggle affair, I would train and race and I suspect that power to measure progress as thr races are shorter and more intense would be helpful to me. If I could put a bike with power onto the track for 400-600 why not


Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to record power on the track. Just pointing out money will be better spent at the start on getting a collection of chainrings and cogs.

Track frames are still 99% English BSA BB's. So which ever crank you get be it a track crank or converted power crank best to look for a BSA one.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby Derny Driver » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:27 pm

Not sure why you want a power meter on the track bike for mate. None of my mates use one. And these guys are very good. National Masters champions. You don't need power for the track. Even for pursuiting. Trust me. If you want to be a champion just buy the bike and then contact me. I could make a silk purse out of a sows ear like you.

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Re: Used track bike - what to look for?

Postby dalai47 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:40 pm

Derny Driver wrote:None of my mates use one.


Am I not your mate DD? :(

That's the point I was trying to make. I do have power on all my bikes except the commuter and MTB. In order of benefit, CX lowest and track second lowest... Stopwatch, head unit to record speed and cadence and a good coach will get you a long way! Having said that, you will have to prise my wired Science Track SRM from my dead hands if you wanted it. :lol:

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