Calga TT

Individual and Team TT

Re: Calga TT

Postby scotto » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:08 am

mikesbytes wrote:http://www.atta.asn.au/db/005.php?page=event&rideid=nsw9_13

What a huge turnout. Does anyone know how to calculate age from the STD time?

i wish i understood any of that.
my 11 year old (timothy) did 56 minutes and went from 73rd to 51st in standardised times.

age standards xl spreadsheet file can be downloaded from http://www.atta.asn.au/ . i looked at it and just closed it down as i only did one year of uni maths
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by BNA » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:17 am

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Re: Calga TT

Postby vander » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:17 am

philip wrote:Looking at the results vander did a 37:35, so close to the magical 40km/h average! Nice one.


Yea, pretty happy, bit down on the power number I was aiming for, but it was backing up from a 145km ride the day before and on antibiotics so to be expected. Was a good consistent effort and all in all a good hitout. It was on my roadie with clip-ons, road helmet and training wheels. The plan is to add one piece of equipment at a time so I keep pbing :D . With a full aerokit I would of cracked the 40km/h which considering I have been back on the bike for just over 6months since my accident I am pretty happy with. Also was a >2min PB (though the PB was from more than a year ago).

Avg Power - 318W (322NP) (AT) around 75kg so a bit over 4.2W/kg, not bad (was aiming for 330-340W). Next one will probably be Nov for me (as I will be Australian uni games in Oct) and will probably go a TT helmet and see what that does to the time.

Well done Scott, sub 40 first dig is great. Will be good to see what you do next weekend.
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Re: Calga TT

Postby Chookman » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:21 pm

Good times Scotto, Vander. Nice day for it!
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Re: Calga TT

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:10 pm

scotto wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:http://www.atta.asn.au/db/005.php?page=event&rideid=nsw9_13

What a huge turnout. Does anyone know how to calculate age from the STD time?

i wish i understood any of that.
my 11 year old (timothy) did 56 minutes and went from 73rd to 51st in standardised times.

age standards xl spreadsheet file can be downloaded from http://www.atta.asn.au/ . i looked at it and just closed it down as i only did one year of uni maths


Yeh I ran the data for one month over that spreadsheet but still couldn't figure it out
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Re: Calga TT

Postby vosadrian » Mon May 05, 2014 5:59 pm

Hey Guys,

I did my first Calga TT yesterday. I did the 43km for no other reason than I normally do longer rides and 25 sounded a bit short. I was just on a standard road bike with 45mm wheels, but I did drop my arms onto the bars a few times, though this was hard with the gusty cross winds for much of the course.

I should have read this thread first. I could have paced myself better!! I started pretty hard and caught the guy in front of me after about 5kms. I then did OK until the 43k turnaround, but looking at the data, probably could have done better. I was feeling it on the return. Wind was strong headwind at times, and I was struggling to keep up the pace. Also, I had never ridden the course, and I had no idea that blood hill was that steep. I got up it OK, but gave it almost all I had left and suffered for the last 3k home as a result, so probably lost some time there (ramped back up to pace over 1-2 minutes after the hill). I will do it differently next time! It feels so good powering off the start and HR seemed OK, so kept at it. Next time I will intentionally ride soft and keep the HR down by 10. Would be good to have a power meter!!

Still, I was pretty happy with a time of 1:13:53 at 35.1kph average. I want to add aero bars and a more aero helmet. Maybe with those items and better pacing and less wind I might be able to get under 1:10????

The general consensus here seems to be to go easy on the hills and hit the flats and down hills. This surprises me. I thought that when the speed was lower on a hill, more of that extra power is going into moving you forward and less into moving the air. Also, I would have thought it would take a fair time of going 5kph faster to make up for cresting a hill 30 seconds later, and that 5kph faster will be taking a lot more power (in terms of W/kph)?!? I guess it may also come to how aero your setup is. If you are on a full TT setup, it will go faster more efficiently, but not climb that well. Where a road bike will be knocking up the power going faster, but climbs well.

Anyway, all very interesting this new world of TT!!

Cheers,

Adrian
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Re: Calga TT

Postby KGB » Mon May 05, 2014 8:10 pm

I agree with you about where to lay down the power Adrian, that was always my understanding as well.

I'm gonna have to get out there this year and do a few TT's myself.
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Re: Calga TT

Postby stevecassidy » Mon May 05, 2014 9:43 pm

I did the TT yesterday as part of the Waratah Club Champs, one year after my last run. I was on TT bars for the first time and hoping for an improvement on my time from last year when I had had a good run on the way out - almost catching my minute man - but then lost a lot on the way back.

As Adrian said, it was windy with a cross headwind on the way out which made it hard to push through. I was losing time almost immediately and ended up almost a minute down on last year with the legs screaming a bit from the effort. The turn around was welcome giving me a cross tailwind and I settled in to the TT position and pushed as hard as I could. Pretty quickly I'd made up 20s on last year which spurred me on, head down I tried to keep up the effort on the descents and not lose too much on the ramps. By about half way back I had caught up with last year's time and by the base of Blood Hill I had 30s to the good. That hill was hard, I felt like I slowed to a crawl but over the top I still had around 30s and I managed to recover fairly quickly to get up to speed for the last few kms. I ended up with 43:28 which is almost a minute up on last time so very happy. I'm still 1:28 down on my 'age corrected time' so I guess there's more improvements to make. It looks like I managed 4th in MMAS5 in the club so just off the podium but better than last time.

I should probably do this more than once a year, but it does hurt so...

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Re: Calga TT

Postby vosadrian » Tue May 06, 2014 8:23 am

Well done on improving your time Steve!

I have a set of TT bars coming for my bike, and I want to give it a go again over the next couple of months. Hopefully I can pull a few minutes off my time. I think just knowing the course better will make a difference. Also, I am sure there is a minute or two in calm wind over last weekend.

How did you find the Aero bars compared to the time without them. I did my best to stay low with my drop bars, so not sure how much I will gain from Aero bars.
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Re: Calga TT

Postby Chookman » Tue May 06, 2014 10:19 am

vosadrian wrote:Hey Guys,

I did my first Calga TT yesterday. I did the 43km for no other reason than I normally do longer rides and 25 sounded a bit short. I was just on a standard road bike with 45mm wheels, but I did drop my arms onto the bars a few times, though this was hard with the gusty cross winds for much of the course.

I should have read this thread first. I could have paced myself better!! I started pretty hard and caught the guy in front of me after about 5kms. I then did OK until the 43k turnaround, but looking at the data, probably could have done better. I was feeling it on the return. Wind was strong headwind at times, and I was struggling to keep up the pace. Also, I had never ridden the course, and I had no idea that blood hill was that steep. I got up it OK, but gave it almost all I had left and suffered for the last 3k home as a result, so probably lost some time there (ramped back up to pace over 1-2 minutes after the hill). I will do it differently next time! It feels so good powering off the start and HR seemed OK, so kept at it. Next time I will intentionally ride soft and keep the HR down by 10. Would be good to have a power meter!!

Still, I was pretty happy with a time of 1:13:53 at 35.1kph average. I want to add aero bars and a more aero helmet. Maybe with those items and better pacing and less wind I might be able to get under 1:10????

The general consensus here seems to be to go easy on the hills and hit the flats and down hills. This surprises me. I thought that when the speed was lower on a hill, more of that extra power is going into moving you forward and less into moving the air. Also, I would have thought it would take a fair time of going 5kph faster to make up for cresting a hill 30 seconds later, and that 5kph faster will be taking a lot more power (in terms of W/kph)?!? I guess it may also come to how aero your setup is. If you are on a full TT setup, it will go faster more efficiently, but not climb that well. Where a road bike will be knocking up the power going faster, but climbs well.

Anyway, all very interesting this new world of TT!!

Cheers,

Adrian


From my own experience, the best way to ride a course like Calga is to try and hold consistent power/ perceived exertion. Many riders will hold a higher power on the up bits and slightly lower on the flats and downhills - this is pretty normal. The key is not going too far in the red for too long. The best piece of advice I can give is to not go out too hard. The first 3 or 4 mins will feel easy so the tendency is to push way too hard and then when everything catches up, you end up grovelling around the rest of the course. Hold back till you reach the bottom of blood hill (on the way out) and then ramp it up. I find once you've eased into it for the first few kms, your power remains a lot more consistent with a lower risk of overcooking it. Also hold back a little on the downhill approaching blood hill on the return. this way you hit the hill slightly fresher allowing you to hold better speed up the hill. by the time your legs start screaming you're 2/3 of the way up!

Good luck!
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Re: Calga TT

Postby vosadrian » Tue May 06, 2014 10:38 am

That makes a lot of sense Chookman. Will try that next time. Particularly the bit about recovering before blood hill. Pushing the pedals hard down the hill will not gain much speed and for not very long, but hitting the hill fresher will get you up the hill better.

I was going over my data on Strava for the blood hill to the end, and it was better than I thought it was. The time was pretty good, so I think I just felt worse than I was riding... which is probably the way it should be.
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Re: Calga TT

Postby stevecassidy » Tue May 06, 2014 7:39 pm

vosadrian wrote:How did you find the Aero bars compared to the time without them. I did my best to stay low with my drop bars, so not sure how much I will gain from Aero bars.


I've had them for a few months but not ridden them much, but in the end I was quite comfortable on them. I don't have an aggressive position, it's actually pretty similar to being on the drops but the big difference is that your arms are much closer together and hence more aero and the upper body is braced pretty firmly giving a good platform to push off. I did some sessions in the position on the trainer so I was confident I could put out about the same power. The main concern was being in that position at speed on the descents - I'm a big wus at descending - but I felt pretty stable despite the wind.

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Re: Calga TT

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed May 07, 2014 9:27 am

vosadrian wrote:How did you find the Aero bars compared to the time without them. I did my best to stay low with my drop bars, so not sure how much I will gain from Aero bars.

Much depends on how much of change of position it creates (and hence aero improvement), but ceteris paribus, I'd guesstimate in the vicinity of 2 seconds/km for putting extension bars on your road bike.

I saw ~ 4sec/km improvement at Calga going from road bike to a borrowed TT rig without completely undertaking aero optimisation, and also after accounting for any differences in power, environmental conditions and pacing:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2009/ ... skool.html
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Re: Calga TT

Postby vosadrian » Wed May 07, 2014 11:10 am

Thanks guys,

I have a bike with flippable seat post, so I may have a go at setting it up aggressive and see how that goes. I would like to find about 4 minutes over the 43k. Going to get an Evade helmet and the bars, and I will spend a bit of time with setup. 4 minutes might be wishful though. Might be achievable if the wind is much lighter. I think pacing better may get me some time also, but might be asking a lot at 4 minutes!!

Cheers,

Adrian
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Re: Calga TT

Postby Chookman » Wed May 07, 2014 11:34 am

vosadrian wrote:Thanks guys,

I have a bike with flippable seat post, so I may have a go at setting it up aggressive and see how that goes. I would like to find about 4 minutes over the 43k. Going to get an Evade helmet and the bars, and I will spend a bit of time with setup. 4 minutes might be wishful though. Might be achievable if the wind is much lighter. I think pacing better may get me some time also, but might be asking a lot at 4 minutes!!

Cheers,

Adrian

4 mins would definitely be achievable. Add, clip ons, better position, calmer conditions, aero helmet and a skinsuit and you may surprise yourself!
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Re: Calga TT

Postby mikesbytes » Wed May 07, 2014 12:43 pm

vosadrian congratulations on your 43 ITT, that's a great time for a first go, with no aero equipment and in conditions that were challenging

Steve I saw you name in the results sheet, if I had seen you I would of said Hi

Those conditions were managed differently by different riders, I missed my starting spot due to brain fade and ended up starting on 75.5min and then overtook riders 75,74,73 in the 4k prior to blood hill, then 71 well before the turnaround. On the way back I overtook 2 more riders, didn't see their numbers. Didn't catch 72.

The conditions were variable during the morning, I analysed the DHBC riders (all did 25k) as I wanted to pro-rata the performance of the #4 rider in my TT team. Turned out that the best performance was 11 seconds slower than their PB and the worst performance was 2m37s slower than their PB, I was 39 seconds slower. The conclusion was that it was really difficult to judge performance.

Steve I suspect that if the other Waratah M5 riders had different time slots then the result could of been different. Who were the riders in the M5 podium? Just curious where I would of come if I was a Waratah rider
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Re: Calga TT

Postby stevecassidy » Wed May 07, 2014 8:39 pm

Hi Mike,
Waratahs results are up here (pdf). M5 results were:

James Tan 50 0:41:14
Rodney Barnes 51 0:42:39
Steve Cassidy 51 0:43:28
David Chee 50 0:43:32
Paul Du-Crest 51 0:44:29
Ian Thomas 52 0:44:56
Alan Thompson 53 0:53:04

I ended up 3rd since they guy ahead of me is actually in M6, not M5 as I thought. I would have faired worse in M4 or M6 but I could have won M1, M8 and M10!

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Re: Calga TT

Postby mikesbytes » Wed May 07, 2014 10:27 pm

Ha, I would of won M5 and came 3rd outright after Chris B and Chris F

Gee's Denis Fahey has an impressive time, is he on HRT?
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