Being aero - it matters

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Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 10, 2009 5:51 pm

20km flat TT circuit.

29th March - Training wheels, aero helmet, skinsuit, cervelo P3C TT bike. 30:55 with 230W average power.

10th May - Zipp 303 tubular front, training rear wheel, regular helmet, skinsuit, cervelo R3 road bike on the drops. 31:02 with 280W average power.

Let's not speculate how slow I would've went if I pushed 230W :lol:
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by BNA » Sun May 10, 2009 5:57 pm

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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun May 10, 2009 5:57 pm

Ant. wrote:20km flat TT circuit.

29th March - Training wheels, aero helmet, skinsuit, cervelo P3C TT bike. 30:55 with 230W average power.

10th May - Zipp 303 tubular front, training rear wheel, regular helmet, skinsuit, cervelo R3 road bike on the drops. 31:02 with 280W average power.

Let's not speculate how slow I would've went if I pushed 230W :lol:

Nice lift in power. Why not speculate? Should also take into account the impact of variable conditions.

I did same sort of comparison here:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-skool.html
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby nimm » Sun May 10, 2009 6:07 pm

Nice work Ant despite the aero difference.

I was there today too, my very first time trial and I did it on the only bike I have (Giant OCR). I did take off my bell and saddle bag for the ride though :) Also, TroyC (on the forum) lent me some boot covers for my shoes which added a few extra kph ;) TroyC did well pulling out a 27:47 (43.2kph) and I managed a 30:43 (39.1kph) which I'm very happy with. I didn't know what to expect but I was shooting for between 38 and 40kph.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Nice lift in power.

Coached by RST 8)

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Why not speculate? Should also take into account the impact of variable conditions.

I did same sort of comparison here:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-skool.html

Because there's no need to say how slow I used to be on a road bike :P
Race report writeup states same temp on both occasions. Very calm conditions today, was windier in March (reported gusting to 30kph), not sure how that'd impact. Maybe I would've gone a few seconds faster, which would've exacerbated what I just posted a little bit more.

I read your blog (I actually read all your blog writeups). Your comparison >> my comparison.
So I guess in summary: time triallers getting OCD about their gear is very justifiable :mrgreen:
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby toolonglegs » Sun May 10, 2009 6:23 pm

But didn't you hurt yourself very recently when you trashed your TT bike?...you are up and running quickly or am I getting confused?.
Are we going to see a power file :wink: .
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 10, 2009 6:49 pm

toolonglegs wrote:But didn't you hurt yourself very recently when you trashed your TT bike?...you are up and running quickly or am I getting confused?.
Are we going to see a power file :wink: .

And didn't Tyler Hamilton break his collarbone in the first stage of the '03 Tour de France and go on to get 4th overall? :wink:

Emergency department suspected a fractured wrist along with a cracked vertebrae. Got the green light pretty quickly with the back, and after getting a CT scan, the radiologist and one orthopaedic surgeon said I had broken my wrist, after looking at my CT scan. They both made rookie errors according to a much more emminent surgeon 8) Just badly sprained. Back is a little bit stiff but is pretty much fine; getting heaps better every day, and my wrist is sore, but not too bad. Not too bad for crashing at 70kph :shock:
Besides running over potholes and other bits of bad road (hurts), I can't grab my water bottle because I can't ride 1 handed using my sore wrist, and I can't yank it out of the bottle cage with my sore wrist.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 10, 2009 6:52 pm

nimm wrote:Nice work Ant despite the aero difference.

I was there today too, my very first time trial and I did it on the only bike I have (Giant OCR). I did take off my bell and saddle bag for the ride though :) Also, TroyC (on the forum) lent me some boot covers for my shoes which added a few extra kph ;) TroyC did well pulling out a 27:47 (43.2kph) and I managed a 30:43 (39.1kph) which I'm very happy with. I didn't know what to expect but I was shooting for between 38 and 40kph.

Nice time mate.
Dimitri did better :P Says he was having an 'off day' too :roll: :lol:

Hooked enough to make appearances during the winter ATTA series?
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby toolonglegs » Sun May 10, 2009 7:21 pm

OK...i thought you were still pretty beat up...so weekly HTFU awards is yours for this week :D .
On the aero side of things...huge jump in power...do you think enviro-mental :roll: differences made a difference..as your times are very close,but your av wattage isn't.I knew a TT set up saved energy but 50w seems a bit much?.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 10, 2009 8:00 pm

toolonglegs wrote:OK...i thought you were still pretty beat up...so weekly HTFU awards is yours for this week :D .
On the aero side of things...huge jump in power...do you think enviro-mental :roll: differences made a difference..as your times are very close,but your av wattage isn't.I knew a TT set up saved energy but 50w seems a bit much?.

That's a fitness increase - no doubt about it. My times would not nearly have been as close if I was on my road bike back then, or if I was on my TT bike now.

When talking about time trialling, being aero doesn't really "save" energy, it allows you go to faster for the same energy. What I mean, is using a set of aero wheels will save you watts sure (especially in wind-tunnel speak), but that's just assuming you're going at the same speed, ie, it allows you to ride at that same speed for lesser watts, but we're dealing with the inverse of that - it allows you to travel faster at the same watts. Threshold watts are threshold watts. Does that make sense? I'm not great at explaining things at times.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Troy C » Sun May 10, 2009 9:52 pm

Last Time in March I had a pair of 10 year old Cosmic ally Clinchers,
Today I had a brand new pair of Prolight 90s with 19mm Corsa Tyres
and went 3 sec slower...........
Go Figure
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 10, 2009 10:20 pm

Troy C wrote:Last Time in March I had a pair of 10 year old Cosmic ally Clinchers,
Today I had a brand new pair of Prolight 90s with 19mm Corsa Tyres
and went 3 sec slower...........
Go Figure
Troy

Now is that because you almost slipped over in the wet and subsequently lost your rhythm?
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Troy C » Sun May 10, 2009 10:53 pm

Now is that because you almost slipped over in the wet and subsequently lost your rhythm?


Yes that did rattle me a bit
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun May 10, 2009 11:31 pm

Ant. wrote:Race report writeup states same temp on both occasions. Very calm conditions today, was windier in March (reported gusting to 30kph), not sure how that'd impact.

depends. if it's an out and back, then overall wind usually adds time. but in some circumstances it can also lower your effective CdA.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby mcnute » Sun May 17, 2009 7:53 pm

Anybody has some bike position tips for me?
I have TIME rxr time trial bike, aero helmet, full suit and shoe covers.
But i think i'm too low on my bike and loosing power.

When i did bavarian championship last weekend i felt like having inert moving legs, as they were inable to give full capacity.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby mcnute » Sun May 17, 2009 7:54 pm

Troy C wrote:Last Time in March I had a pair of 10 year old Cosmic ally Clinchers,
Today I had a brand new pair of Prolight 90s with 19mm Corsa Tyres
and went 3 sec slower...........
Go Figure
Troy


I´m sure it weren´t the wheels :wink:
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Ant. » Sun May 17, 2009 10:09 pm

It was the dodging of the ducks on the field!!
Ruining everyone's PBs that day :shock:
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby aeroslave » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:18 am

Just applying these assumptions:

Using a heavier and less aero training bike with identical measurements and fit as your full aero and lighter race bike, surely you would be faster. Same watts/power, less drag/wind resistance. Is that safe to assume? It sure feels that way! :D
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:31 am

aeroslavebigbelly wrote:Just applying these assumptions:

Using a heavier and less aero training bike with identical measurements and fit as your full aero and lighter race bike, surely you would be faster. Same watts/power, less drag/wind resistance. Is that safe to assume? It sure feels that way! :D

All else being equal, then if a frame is more aero and lighter, it will result in a higher speed. Maybe not a lot higher but higher nonetheless.
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Re: Being aero - it matters

Postby aeroslave » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:05 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
aeroslavebigbelly wrote:Just applying these assumptions:

Using a heavier and less aero training bike with identical measurements and fit as your full aero and lighter race bike, surely you would be faster. Same watts/power, less drag/wind resistance. Is that safe to assume? It sure feels that way! :D

All else being equal, then if a frame is more aero and lighter, it will result in a higher speed. Maybe not a lot higher but higher nonetheless.



Good stuff!
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