Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

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Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:57 am

At the NSW ITT champs my heart rate average was 176. The following day in the NSW Crit champs I averaged 178 for what was a similar duration.

So is this data saying I should push a little harder in the ITT? Perhaps even as high as 180 average?
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by BNA » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:36 pm

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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:36 pm

mikesbytes wrote:At the NSW ITT champs my heart rate average was 176. The following day in the NSW Crit champs I averaged 178 for what was a similar duration.

So is this data saying I should push a little harder in the ITT? Perhaps even as high as 180 average?

No, it's not saying that.

HR response is impacted by many things and its utility as a guide to effort/intensity level declines as efforts become more variable (e.g. a hilly crit) and at and beyond threshold power levels (e.g. shorter duration TTs).
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:26 pm

The duration was about the same
ITT = 35m something seconds
Crit = 30m + 3 laps (1.1k)
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby dalai47 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:34 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So is this data saying I should push a little harder in the ITT? Perhaps even as high as 180 average?


Don't need a HRM to know if you went as hard as you could... Did you throw up and suffer pursuiters cough after finishing? If not, you didn't go hard enough. :wink:
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby sogood » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:46 pm

Mike never throw up! So yes, he can always go harder! :D
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby twizzle » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:04 pm

dalai47 wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:So is this data saying I should push a little harder in the ITT? Perhaps even as high as 180 average?


Don't need a HRM to know if you went as hard as you could... Did you throw up and suffer pursuiters cough after finishing? If not, you didn't go hard enough. :wink:


ITT isn't the equivalent of pursuiting, so no pursuiters cough.

Chucking and/or almost passing out after crossing the line is the benchmark. ;)
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby dalai47 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:39 pm

I've suffered pursuiters cough after a good ITT...
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby twizzle » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:50 pm

dalai47 wrote:I've suffered pursuiters cough after a good ITT...



You can only call it "pursuiters"/"track hack" if it's a <= 4km ITT. Otherwise its "just" EIB. :P
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:43 pm

Pursuiter's hack is caused by some things other than how hard you go, some are more susceptible to it, the air conditions, and it can also be a sign of under developed fitness. When fit I would never get it.
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:49 pm

I sometimes get it at the end of a one hour CX race... the freezing cold air seems to trigger it for me. Not a Siberian pine in site!.
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby boss » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:33 am

+1 under developed fitness. I have noticed I get the cough much more often after having 8 weeks of interrupted routine due to a torn quad (4 weeks no bike, 2 weeks either side of interrupted routine).

But regardless of fitness, I get it on really, really intense <10m efforts... Even got it quite badly on an all-out 3 minute effort - 20%+ for about 600m.

I have found that it can be managed (when I'm at peak fitness) by drinking a lot of water and electrolytes in the 24hr period prior. Instead of coughing up for a day or two afterwards I will just cough a little bit after the effort.
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby twizzle » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:58 am

From memory, I had my first bout back in late 2010 after a flying final crit lap. Since then, I have been triggering it more and more often. I can guarantee I will trigger it in a 4km TT, I have also triggered it while trying to drop someone from my wheel up a hill. At the beginning of last year, after catching a virus, I ended up with full-blown asthma and spent five days on steroids. All of these episodes have occured when I have been at (or close to) peak fitness. These days I go the ventolin before intense efforts plus I have a few puffers lying around at all times.

So "-1" to under-developed fitness.
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby boss » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:39 am

boss wrote:+1 under developed fitness. I have noticed I get the cough much more often after having 8 weeks of interrupted routine due to a torn quad (4 weeks no bike, 2 weeks either side of interrupted routine).

But regardless of fitness, I get it on really, really intense <10m efforts... Even got it quite badly on an all-out 3 minute effort - 20%+ for about 600m.

I have found that it can be managed (when I'm at peak fitness) by drinking a lot of water and electrolytes in the 24hr period prior. Instead of coughing up for a day or two afterwards I will just cough a little bit after the effort.


Bringing this up again.

Right now I'm super fit (or at least the fittest I've been for quite some time) but suffering the dreaded pursuiters cough chronically lately.

I'm finding it is worst when targeting effort durations that you are not used to. I have been actively targetting sub-5 minute stuff... 30 sec, 1 minute, 3 minute... because that's the stuff I've never worked on and am subsequently below-average at it.

The work is good - getting results - but when I push past my limit I am finding some pretty bad lung/throat burn, and then will suffer exercise induced asthma for days.

Monday did a big effort... aborted Tuesday's training halfway through a 15 minute effort due to heat (42 degrees (AT) 5.30pm)... very easy Wednesday... hard 8 minute effort this morning... still paying for Monday in coughing fits.

And I re-iterate. Overall, I'm super fit at the moment. Strongest I've ever been on the bike. Just underdeveloped fitness for the short stuff.

The bronchial spasms have got to have something to do with pushing yourself past established limits.

I'm just praying that it subsides because I can't cope with this sh*t.

(P.s. have been to the doc recently, it's EIT, lung scans etc are all fine. Prescribed ventalin but I don't find it does much other than make me feel like crud.)
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:01 pm

It is called pursuiters cough for a reason... short high intensity efforts.
I suffer from it sometimes... also was diagnosed as EIA, the ventolin actually made me start having proper attacks :roll: so I stopped completely.
I suffered from it pretty badly in CX season as nothing I ever did made me suffer like that hour!.

Anyway personally I found not stopping dead after a killer effort helped the most... keep it rolling a bit after each effort at reduced intensity, no more coughing for me.

Might not work for you though of course.
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby boss » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:44 pm

toolonglegs wrote:It is called pursuiters cough for a reason... short high intensity efforts.
I suffer from it sometimes... also was diagnosed as EIA, the ventolin actually made me start having proper attacks :roll: so I stopped completely.
I suffered from it pretty badly in CX season as nothing I ever did made me suffer like that hour!.

Anyway personally I found not stopping dead after a killer effort helped the most... keep it rolling a bit after each effort at reduced intensity, no more coughing for me.

Might not work for you though of course.



I reckon I'm getting something similar from the ventolin. I am really suffering at the moment and the ventolin is doing SFA. Definitely the worst episode of this coughing crap. Will see what happens if I don't use the puffer...
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:17 pm

I got a couple of bouts of it recently.

Climbing Quarry Track at Cascades in Belrose does it to me most times. And Tuesday, doing 3 minute hill intervals (AT) 105% THR did it too. Regretted not having the Ventolin with me, was starting to worry about a potential attack but it settled down by the time I finished the intervals.

Seretide preventer taken when I'm supposed to :oops: seems to be the best countermeasure. Along with being fitter.

It's worse for me in winter. Nose runs like a tap too.
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Re: Heart Rate the poor mans power metre

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:31 am

I've heard an explanation for sprinters cough

When breathing normally the air passes thru the noise where it is moistened and warmed. In high intensity the breathing switches to thru the mouth where it bypasses moisterising and warming. The colder dryer air results in sprinters cough
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