Holding Position

Individual and Team TT

Holding Position

Postby Toolish » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:31 pm

Is there anything that can be done to help hold aero position.

I have had a fit, but need to get better at staying in the aero position.

Is it a core strength thing, flexibility, or just spending time aero?
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by BNA » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:40 pm

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Re: Holding Position

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:40 pm

All of the above... plus it is a compromise, you can be super aero but can you make power in that position.
Personally I have trouble looking very far ahead when in position... my neck takes a lot of conditioning.
Plus the more I train in the TT position the closer my power numbers are to what I can hold on the roadie.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:15 pm

+1, practice practice practice. Said by someone who is neither aero nor powerful :lol: .
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Re: Holding Position

Postby thearthurdog » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:16 pm

Riding an indoor trainer in position helps a lot as well.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby MDL » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:27 pm

thearthurdog wrote:Riding an indoor trainer in position helps a lot as well.


So this is what you have been doing on the trainer

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Re: Holding Position

Postby clackers » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:39 pm

Toolish wrote:
Is it a core strength thing, flexibility, or just spending time aero?


Cadel did pilates to improve core strength to let him hold his time trial position.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby Mjainoz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:39 pm

Toolish wrote:Is there anything that can be done to help hold aero position.

I have had a fit, but need to get better at staying in the aero position.

Is it a core strength thing, flexibility, or just spending time aero?


Your fitter is crap or did a crap job. If you can't hold the position you are set up for in your fit, it's not FIT for YOU. More likely some textbook numbers.

Ring them back and tell em they did a crap fit. Ask for a re fit. Then when you can ride in your new position for a sustainable period ie hours. Go back and get a new fit.

Save your money on Zipps and other bling. Get a good fit and get as aero as you can hold for now. And be prepared to get "re fitted" each year or so till you get slippery as a snake.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby dalai47 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:16 pm

Mjainoz wrote:
Toolish wrote:Is there anything that can be done to help hold aero position.

I have had a fit, but need to get better at staying in the aero position.

Is it a core strength thing, flexibility, or just spending time aero?


Your fitter is crap or did a crap job. If you can't hold the position you are set up for in your fit, it's not FIT for YOU. More likely some textbook numbers.

Ring them back and tell em they did a crap fit. Ask for a re fit. Then when you can ride in your new position for a sustainable period ie hours. Go back and get a new fit.

Save your money on Zipps and other bling. Get a good fit and get as aero as you can hold for now. And be prepared to get "re fitted" each year or so till you get slippery as a snake.


Disagree - adaption will take time. According to a man who has done a few TT's in his time - Chris Boardman

"Is getting the body comfortable and the right fit as important as aerodynamics?

There are two gaping holes in how position is currently addressed. Aero and efficiency need to be tackled, or at least considered, together. If a better position looses you 20 watts you need to know what the net effect is. If you have just gained 50 watts in aero efficiency then it’s a win. If you recognise that aero is the biggest user of energy how can you decide if a position is good/bad without knowing the effect on aero? The second issue is that position is assessed usually for ‘comfort’ or ‘efficiency’ without allowing any meaningful time to adapt. A friend of mine, who had defined where he wanted to keep his head for optimal results, sewed a metal washer into the back of his skin suit and put a magnet on the tip of his aero helmet. When the two connected there was an audible ‘click’ and he knew this was the position he was shooting for. It took him nearly two months before this head position became his default."

http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com ... s-boardman
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Re: Holding Position

Postby Mjainoz » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:59 am

dalai47 wrote:
Mjainoz wrote:
Toolish wrote:Is there anything that can be done to help hold aero position.

I have had a fit, but need to get better at staying in the aero position.

Is it a core strength thing, flexibility, or just spending time aero?


Your fitter is crap or did a crap job. If you can't hold the position you are set up for in your fit, it's not FIT for YOU. More likely some textbook numbers.

Ring them back and tell em they did a crap fit. Ask for a re fit. Then when you can ride in your new position for a sustainable period ie hours. Go back and get a new fit.

Save your money on Zipps and other bling. Get a good fit and get as aero as you can hold for now. And be prepared to get "re fitted" each year or so till you get slippery as a snake.


Disagree - adaption will take time. According to a man who has done a few TT's in his time - Chris Boardman

"Is getting the body comfortable and the right fit as important as aerodynamics?

There are two gaping holes in how position is currently addressed. Aero and efficiency need to be tackled, or at least considered, together. If a better position looses you 20 watts you need to know what the net effect is. If you have just gained 50 watts in aero efficiency then it’s a win. If you recognise that aero is the biggest user of energy how can you decide if a position is good/bad without knowing the effect on aero? The second issue is that position is assessed usually for ‘comfort’ or ‘efficiency’ without allowing any meaningful time to adapt. A friend of mine, who had defined where he wanted to keep his head for optimal results, sewed a metal washer into the back of his skin suit and put a magnet on the tip of his aero helmet. When the two connected there was an audible ‘click’ and he knew this was the position he was shooting for. It took him nearly two months before this head position became his default."

http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com ... s-boardman

Well. I actually agree with you. And i was talking in my post about adaption over time. But if the OP wants to race tomorrow they will be sitting up like a parachute 10ks in Just a side I've dropped about 25mm of stem spacers in three years (more to aero than that of course however...). Had three bike fits in three years. 53yrs old. The adaptions taken time.
But back to your point. You are correct.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby clackers » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:01 am

It's not just a matter of the fit. It's a weird, completely unnatural position used no where else in your life (kama sutra aside).

Cadel Evans used pilates to help in the adaptation. The core muscles aren't exercised by conventional gym equipment.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:27 pm

As I found out I haven't adapted that well to my new position / bike, yes I can hold the position pretty well and it is obviously aerodynamic as I go a lot faster, but I can't hold the power... now if I knew how many watts I gained in aerodynamics compared to how many I have lost due to the new position I could make a judgement call... actually need to do a descent climb or something for 30 minutes to get a good comparison number, doing them at a good clip is not that easy this year!
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Re: Holding Position

Postby Parker » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:03 pm

Practice is important. I find if I haven't ridden my TT bike in a while that my neck hurts a lot. You've gotta ride it. And that might simply be a case of 30minutes one day and 40minutes a few days after that, that will get you used to the position.

If going gradually and increasing time doesn't work then the fit or bike is wrong
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Re: Holding Position

Postby jules21 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:42 pm

i just bombed out of an ITT on the weekend, as I was in too much pain at the saddle contact point on my TT bike.

1. I know I need to spend more time on the bike. it's been sitting in a corner (it needed some work).

2. should I drop the seat height? I've got it set basically where I'd set my roadie seat height, with the leg slightly bent at furthest point (5.30 o'clock). would you normally run a TT bike seat height lower? or should I focus on #1 first to see if it improves with time?
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Re: Holding Position

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:09 pm

My opinion is you would run a TT saddle higher as you are more likely to sit on the nose of the saddle which is shortening your actual saddle height a bit.
I set up my TT bike saddle from BB to about 1 inch behind the nose of the saddle which is where I sit. Makes it about a cm higher than road bike if I sit upright in the middle of the saddle.

I have done a few TT rides in the last month and I am having trouble with the longer crank length ... hips are too tight to be smooth. Sucks getting older!. I also getting very twisted in my position but thats another tale.

I am running a ISM Adamo saddle for TT's. They take a bit of conditioning if you really want to sit on the nose all the time... but once you get used to it you can sit on the nose comfortably for long periods with out any pressure.
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Re: Holding Position

Postby Strawburger » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:36 pm

I've noticed the chamois and the saddle need to be well matched! I run a specialized TT saddle. My club skinsuit is really uncomfortable but my other ones are perfect. And as TLL says, ride on the nose of the saddle for the best results.
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