Slipstreaming whilst commuting?

Beating the system - the cycling commuting section

Postby Boognoss » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:29 pm

leximack wrote:is it just me, or does everyone find dudes that ride with areo bars really hate to be passed.
I passed one on the M7 cycleway a few weeks ago, and he got a tad shirty at me i think, he put in all he had to get on my wheel. I let him suck my wheel along the flat until the climb came (the one heading up to eliz dr from prestons), then put the hammer down and dropped him like a sack of potatos :lol: , but what am i to judge, maybe he had just swam 2km and ran 20km and was on the "bike" leg. I had victory for that moment though :lol:

Don


LOL, I'm guessing he hadn't done the other two legs...... :D
Avanti Quantum, Salsa Casseroll, Specialized Tricross
Image
User avatar
Boognoss
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 5671
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:45 am
Location: Castle Hill, NSW

by BNA » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:00 pm

BNA
 

Postby toofat » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:00 pm

No lexi its not just you

Lets get together and organize the Bicycles Network Triathalon, we can keep the running and swimming legs deceptively simple

then set the cycling course in the steepest terrain we can find,
line the route on the really steep bits for encouragement and comment on how much faster they would go if they just used the areo bars :lol:
toofat
 
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:38 am
Location: East Victoria Park,Perth

Postby wombatK » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:30 pm

If someone catches up with you on the bike, they were obviously capable of travelling faster than you. They should just get on with it and pass you.

Strictly, the road rules oblige riders to keep a safe distance from the rider in front. You'd have a hard time explaining that it was a legal safe distance if you suck someone's wheel without asking.

I think you should no more consider sucking a wheel without asking permission than you should consider slip-streaming 0.5 m behind a car on the open road. Sure, the Super V8 drivers do it all the time - but only on the racetrack amongst consenting well trained drivers where the rules of the road don't apply.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5097
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:44 pm

wombatK wrote:If someone catches up with you on the bike, they were obviously capable of travelling faster than you. They should just get on with it and pass you.

Not necessarily.

As an example, rider B may have exerted 98% of his maximum to catch up with rider A while the rider A is cruising at 80% of his maximum. At the same speed and without drafting, it may have required 90% of rider B's maximum.
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Postby munga » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:16 pm

yeah no biggie here. i mean, if they're drafting me..
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
User avatar
munga
 
Posts: 6397
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:17 pm
Location: wowe

Postby sharktamin » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:07 am

Now I admit that anyone following on my wheel is probably standing still - I'm simply not that quick, but...

I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride? Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

If your racing, or training, then I understand. But surely you need to bring your own team mate? And wouldn't you want to follow your specific training plan and travel at your own pace? If your riding for excercise what's the point of slipstreaming and making it easy on yourself?

It seams pointless to me.
User avatar
sharktamin
 
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:53 pm

Postby sogood » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:08 am

sharktamin wrote:I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride? Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

Commuting just means that you are riding to work/shop and has no restriction on the pace. Some ride fast and some ride slow.
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Postby ajh003 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:10 am

" If your riding for excercise what's the point of slipstreaming and making it easy on yourself? "

Good call...But I must admit I take it as a challenge at the moment to try and keep up with the roadies
Even though I've almost done my first 3000kms I'm still a real newbie at some of this and have already learnt much abt slipstreaming reading this.

Being a rather LARGE rider with a high priority on weight loss and fitness, I love to rise to the challenge in keeping up with young and fit riders and packs...because it challenges my fitness level and mixes it up

Although I hate the 30km afternoon headwinds I am discovering that it is my friend in the fight...PAIN IS my friend

Slipstreaming is not really the goal for me....it's more an exciting new challenge cos most of the roadies sit on 32-35 and I generally find that is my 98% limit (as already said they are on 80%)
SO..when I slipstream I am working to keep up on my flat bar with 7kg backpack and 38c tyres....

I have discovered I am mentally a weakling....When I ride alone I begin to feel pain or get tired and feel I cannot get over 25km/ hr until suddenly I'm chasing a pack at 30-32km....IT'S SUCH A MENTAL THING
SO I challenge myself and my heartrate monitor to push on alone and sit on the 30k/hr

I will no longer worry when I don't get a reciprocal greeting.
I must no longer take it as a SNUB but quite possibly intense concentration in training - a very real possibility

I apologise to all you lycra crew who I have considered too aloof to communicate. I will humbly nod my head and puff along !
:roll:
Jamis CODA SPORT Flat Bar CONVERTED to a DROP BAR for Daily commutes
Giant "Talon" MTB for weekend Trails and "FAMILY" stuff
SW 168.5 kgs CW 111 kgs woohoo !
Image
User avatar
ajh003
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:16 am
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD

Postby Aushiker » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:51 am

sharktamin wrote:I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride?


:lol: You need to come and ride on the Mitchell Freeway PSP in the morning or evening here. Its the TdF of commuting where ever second counts apparently and it seems one is not capable of making up the lost second in a safer section (e.g., road). You know you got to jump that red light, you got to bugger the cyclist crossing Cedric Street on the left side (correctly BTW), I need the right side going the opposite way, so get out of my way; I must pass now, bad luck if you are coming towards me, get out of my way and so on.

The Kwinana PSP doesn't seem so bad for some reason. Maybe it is more of the tight corners and intersections on the Mitchell PSP that makes it seem worse.

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19420
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby xavdav » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:26 pm

I suck wheels when I commute and I expect peole to suck my back wheel too; this said, when coming from behind I try to go to the level of the person I am going to slipstream to say hi. If I feel good enough I will take the relay, but if I am about to blow up a fuse because I have been chasing behind them for 15 minutes I might just seat politely behind and recover, and I would not blame somebody else to do it :roll: it is commuting not racing :?:
If you are not happy being slipstreamed, just drop me at the first oportunity :wink: some people have tried and usually those who are coming from behind have managed to do it more often than those I have been catching up :wink: .

Most of my commuting is done for the moment with a modified hybrid : road tyres (23mm) and clip on aero bar :wink:
Image
User avatar
xavdav
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:23 am

sogood wrote:
sharktamin wrote:I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride? Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

Commuting just means that you are riding to work/shop and has no restriction on the pace. Some ride fast and some ride slow.


I reckon I get more benefit out of commuting than proper training.

I push hard when I'm getting to work because I'm usually running slightly behind schedule and I know I've only got to keep it up for half an hour. So it's a serious of almost 100% exertions until I have to stop for the lights and recover and that makes fantastic lactate threshold training.

One thing though, if I suck a wheel for a bit to rest up for a minute or two, I say to myself, "think of how much of a tool you'll look like if they catch back up!" great motivation.
colafreak
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:37 pm

Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:30 am

colafreak wrote:I reckon I get more benefit out of commuting than proper training.

I think that says a lot about your training plan and execution. :shock:

Depending on the route and time of day, a typical commute into the city may not be the best place to push oneself to 100% ie. Racing speed. It's just dangerous with the traffic, fellow commuters and pedestrians around.
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:28 am

I get where you're coming from but it comes down to the specific route you're taking. For me it's pretty safe.

I guess what I was trying to say is I can push harder when I'm only going for a half hour ride to work than when I know I want to cover at least 50km BEFORE work for a "training" ride.

Really interesting article on biketechreview about doing less training and getting more benefit and I guess it makes sense. If your intensity isn't hard enough, it doesn't matter what duration it is. 95% for an hour each day is great for increasing my threshold.
colafreak
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:37 pm

Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:35 am

colafreak wrote:I guess what I was trying to say is I can push harder when I'm only going for a half hour ride to work than when I know I want to cover at least 50km BEFORE work for a "training" ride.

Really interesting article on biketechreview about doing less training and getting more benefit and I guess it makes sense. If your intensity isn't hard enough, it doesn't matter what duration it is. 95% for an hour each day is great for increasing my threshold.

There are different modes of training leading to different outcomes. Some train for sprints while others train for endurance and then others train for a balance or even ultra-endrance. So I'd say that you need to set your objective and then train accordingly. If your training plan isn't giving you results, then you need to revise it, re design it to fit your objective.

A commute can be part of your training but it shouldn't be better than your training.
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:38 am

Getting a bit OT, I know, but my belief is that intervals increase endurance better than just riding a long way.
colafreak
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:37 pm

Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:41 am

colafreak wrote:Getting a bit OT, I know, but my belief is that intervals increase endurance better than just riding a long way.

I think you should start a thread in the Training section. :wink:

PS. There are so many different forms of interval training. Which one were you thinking?
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Postby eucryphia » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:52 pm

sharktamin wrote: Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride?

Sometimes I just enjoy the scenery. More often I enjoy the ride when I'm going flat out, especially with a stiff tailwind. :)
sharktamin wrote: Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

Yes, but I don't slipstream them, I slipsteam people who overtake and then slow down. :lol:
sharktamin wrote:If your racing, or training, then I understand. But surely you need to bring your own team mate? And wouldn't you want to follow your specific training plan and travel at your own pace? If your riding for excercise what's the point of slipstreaming and making it easy on yourself?

Slipsteaming for racing is a legitimate technique, making it easy on yourself to save energy for the final sprint to victory, you probably should practice it during training, my question was about commuting.
sharktamin wrote:It seams pointless to me.

YMMV
User avatar
eucryphia
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:05 pm
Location: Queanbeyan

Postby familyguy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:59 am

If someone pulled behind and asked, sure. If you wanna suck then blow past on a hill, fair enough, but be prepared for me to curse you between gasps for breath.

Case in point: I stopped at a set of lights on wednesday on my way home when a guy on a slick-tyred MTB pulls up next to me. Look over, nod, no acknowledgement, fair enough. He takes off on the red/green change anticipation stakes, I go on green, 150 meters later I'm right behind him.

A few corners later it turned out he was following the cycle route behind Neutral Bay, Cremorne, etc to the Spit Bridge. Not having ridden it before I backed off the whole way, sitting 20 meters behind him at a moderate pace to learn the route. Not close enough to be considered drafting, but maybe not far enough away to make him think "he's just getting home, like me". Next time I see him I'll be going around him. Then he'll probably go around me. And so on, and so forth.

Jim
User avatar
familyguy
 
Posts: 4911
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Cromer, NSW

Postby sogood » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:15 am

familyguy wrote:Next time I see him I'll be going around him. Then he'll probably go around me. And so on, and so forth.

Good training partners are hard to come by. I hope you'll treasure what you've found. :lol:
Bianchi, Ridley, Montague, GT, Garmin and All things Apple :)
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
User avatar
sogood
 
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Postby RobRollin » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:17 pm

I dont see why other cyclists using the same roadway as me cannot say hello or a nod. I usually give a nod or a smile to say hello if I am out training or a g'day if im out commuting. Depends on how much stress Im under. Doesnt take much to say hello.

As for slip streaming, if someone pulls in behind me, and I know they are there Ill glance back and see if they are just sucking a wheel or want to help. If they know what they are doing I dont mind if they sit there. If they are just sucking a wheel Ill try and drop them.

Likewise if I see a group of riders Ive tagged on the back, and I will have a crack at the front.
Image
RobRollin
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:44 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Postby Tale » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:44 pm

Bloke wearing an iPod riding a Pinarello Prince rudely pushed past me at traffic lights on my way home. Slipstreamed the hell out of him for the next few kilometres :)
Fuji Roubaix RC 2009 - Trek 520 1998 - Touring videos - Commute
User avatar
Tale
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby RepcoMonaco » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:00 am

As I remember, the rider at the front also gets some aerodynamic advantage from being slipstreamed. So a 'wheel sucker' is actually doing him a favor :)
RepcoMonaco
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:17 pm

It's not a group ride

Postby Thoglette » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:41 pm

My observations of the morning commute

* it's not a race or group ride
* most people are going at the wrong speed for wheel sucking
* passing someone ;b'is definitely[/b] seen a open invitation to wheel suck
* no-one's going where I'm going.

On the last point, it's a very, very rare day that someone's going in the same direction, at the same pace, at the same time as me for any useful distance.

It's nice when it happens, and inevitably we end up sharing pulls - particularly if there's a head wind.

I guess it happens once a year.
Maybe.
User avatar
Thoglette
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:01 pm

Postby thomas_cho » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:44 pm

I dont understand what the big deal about "slipstreaming" while commuting is all about.

Whose ego is at play here?

Does the person tailing you slow you down at all? Make it harder for you on your ride? Does everyone have to ask permission to be within X metres of your bike?

I commute along Northbourne ave in Canberra in the mornings ... riding o the bike lane, next to some heavy traffic. Sometimes when coming up to slower riders, there is no option but to tailgate and wait for an opening in the traffic before getting the chance to overtake. Sometimes I am the one holding back faster riders, and they can a pull from me at abt 35km/h, and then blow past me when the traffic allows it.

Do I care? Do I expect them to greet me on the way past? I just continue on my way.

Guys its a commute, not a race, no prize to be gained by being first to the light, no prize lost with someone overtaking you on the hill.

Heres wishing all a safe commute!
Thomas
thomas_cho
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Canberra ACT

Postby m@ » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:10 am

Nothing to do with ego - on the contrary I've been quite flattered on the occasions someone has seen fit to hug my wheel - it's simply that riding close enough to benefit from a slipstream is illegal and dangerous - particularly so if the rider in front isn't even aware you're there.

Ego may be a factor when it comes to choosing between politely requesting they either pass or drop back to leave a safe distance, or sprinting up a hill to drop 'em though :twisted:
There are four phases of bicycle commuting; first there's fear, then rage, then self-righteousness and finally, fun.
-Yehuda Moon
User avatar
m@
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Northlandia

PreviousNext

Return to Commuting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: outnabike, Sir Stinkalot



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist