Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

leximack wrote:is it just me, or does everyone find dudes that ride with areo bars really hate to be passed.
I passed one on the M7 cycleway a few weeks ago, and he got a tad shirty at me i think, he put in all he had to get on my wheel. I let him suck my wheel along the flat until the climb came (the one heading up to eliz dr from prestons), then put the hammer down and dropped him like a sack of potatos , but what am i to judge, maybe he had just swam 2km and ran 20km and was on the "bike" leg. I had victory for that moment though

Don

LOL, I'm guessing he hadn't done the other two legs......

No lexi its not just you

Lets get together and organize the Bicycles Network Triathalon, we can keep the running and swimming legs deceptively simple

then set the cycling course in the steepest terrain we can find,
line the route on the really steep bits for encouragement and comment on how much faster they would go if they just used the areo bars

If someone catches up with you on the bike, they were obviously capable of travelling faster than you. They should just get on with it and pass you.

Strictly, the road rules oblige riders to keep a safe distance from the rider in front. You'd have a hard time explaining that it was a legal safe distance if you suck someone's wheel without asking.

I think you should no more consider sucking a wheel without asking permission than you should consider slip-streaming 0.5 m behind a car on the open road. Sure, the Super V8 drivers do it all the time - but only on the racetrack amongst consenting well trained drivers where the rules of the road don't apply.

wombatK wrote:If someone catches up with you on the bike, they were obviously capable of travelling faster than you. They should just get on with it and pass you.

Not necessarily.

As an example, rider B may have exerted 98% of his maximum to catch up with rider A while the rider A is cruising at 80% of his maximum. At the same speed and without drafting, it may have required 90% of rider B's maximum.

yeah no biggie here. i mean, if they're drafting me..

Now I admit that anyone following on my wheel is probably standing still - I'm simply not that quick, but...

I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride? Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

If your racing, or training, then I understand. But surely you need to bring your own team mate? And wouldn't you want to follow your specific training plan and travel at your own pace? If your riding for excercise what's the point of slipstreaming and making it easy on yourself?

It seams pointless to me.

sharktamin wrote:I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride? Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

Commuting just means that you are riding to work/shop and has no restriction on the pace. Some ride fast and some ride slow.

" If your riding for excercise what's the point of slipstreaming and making it easy on yourself? "

Good call...But I must admit I take it as a challenge at the moment to try and keep up with the roadies
Even though I've almost done my first 3000kms I'm still a real newbie at some of this and have already learnt much abt slipstreaming reading this.

Being a rather LARGE rider with a high priority on weight loss and fitness, I love to rise to the challenge in keeping up with young and fit riders and packs...because it challenges my fitness level and mixes it up

Although I hate the 30km afternoon headwinds I am discovering that it is my friend in the fight...PAIN IS my friend

Slipstreaming is not really the goal for me....it's more an exciting new challenge cos most of the roadies sit on 32-35 and I generally find that is my 98% limit (as already said they are on 80%)
SO..when I slipstream I am working to keep up on my flat bar with 7kg backpack and 38c tyres....

I have discovered I am mentally a weakling....When I ride alone I begin to feel pain or get tired and feel I cannot get over 25km/ hr until suddenly I'm chasing a pack at 30-32km....IT'S SUCH A MENTAL THING
SO I challenge myself and my heartrate monitor to push on alone and sit on the 30k/hr

I will no longer worry when I don't get a reciprocal greeting.
I must no longer take it as a SNUB but quite possibly intense concentration in training - a very real possibility

I apologise to all you lycra crew who I have considered too aloof to communicate. I will humbly nod my head and puff along !

sharktamin wrote:I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride?

You need to come and ride on the Mitchell Freeway PSP in the morning or evening here. Its the TdF of commuting where ever second counts apparently and it seems one is not capable of making up the lost second in a safer section (e.g., road). You know you got to jump that red light, you got to bugger the cyclist crossing Cedric Street on the left side (correctly BTW), I need the right side going the opposite way, so get out of my way; I must pass now, bad luck if you are coming towards me, get out of my way and so on.

The Kwinana PSP doesn't seem so bad for some reason. Maybe it is more of the tight corners and intersections on the Mitchell PSP that makes it seem worse.

Andrew

I suck wheels when I commute and I expect peole to suck my back wheel too; this said, when coming from behind I try to go to the level of the person I am going to slipstream to say hi. If I feel good enough I will take the relay, but if I am about to blow up a fuse because I have been chasing behind them for 15 minutes I might just seat politely behind and recover, and I would not blame somebody else to do it it is commuting not racing
If you are not happy being slipstreamed, just drop me at the first oportunity some people have tried and usually those who are coming from behind have managed to do it more often than those I have been catching up .

Most of my commuting is done for the moment with a modified hybrid : road tyres (23mm) and clip on aero bar

sogood wrote:

sharktamin wrote:I don't get it? Are we talking about commuting here? Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride? Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

Commuting just means that you are riding to work/shop and has no restriction on the pace. Some ride fast and some ride slow.

I reckon I get more benefit out of commuting than proper training.

I push hard when I'm getting to work because I'm usually running slightly behind schedule and I know I've only got to keep it up for half an hour. So it's a serious of almost 100% exertions until I have to stop for the lights and recover and that makes fantastic lactate threshold training.

One thing though, if I suck a wheel for a bit to rest up for a minute or two, I say to myself, "think of how much of a tool you'll look like if they catch back up!" great motivation.

colafreak wrote:I reckon I get more benefit out of commuting than proper training.

I think that says a lot about your training plan and execution.

Depending on the route and time of day, a typical commute into the city may not be the best place to push oneself to 100% ie. Racing speed. It's just dangerous with the traffic, fellow commuters and pedestrians around.

I get where you're coming from but it comes down to the specific route you're taking. For me it's pretty safe.

I guess what I was trying to say is I can push harder when I'm only going for a half hour ride to work than when I know I want to cover at least 50km BEFORE work for a "training" ride.

Really interesting article on biketechreview about doing less training and getting more benefit and I guess it makes sense. If your intensity isn't hard enough, it doesn't matter what duration it is. 95% for an hour each day is great for increasing my threshold.

colafreak wrote:I guess what I was trying to say is I can push harder when I'm only going for a half hour ride to work than when I know I want to cover at least 50km BEFORE work for a "training" ride.

Really interesting article on biketechreview about doing less training and getting more benefit and I guess it makes sense. If your intensity isn't hard enough, it doesn't matter what duration it is. 95% for an hour each day is great for increasing my threshold.

There are different modes of training leading to different outcomes. Some train for sprints while others train for endurance and then others train for a balance or even ultra-endrance. So I'd say that you need to set your objective and then train accordingly. If your training plan isn't giving you results, then you need to revise it, re design it to fit your objective.

A commute can be part of your training but it shouldn't be better than your training.

Getting a bit OT, I know, but my belief is that intervals increase endurance better than just riding a long way.

colafreak wrote:Getting a bit OT, I know, but my belief is that intervals increase endurance better than just riding a long way.

I think you should start a thread in the Training section.

PS. There are so many different forms of interval training. Which one were you thinking?

sharktamin wrote: Isn't the idea to take it easy and enjoy the ride?

Sometimes I just enjoy the scenery. More often I enjoy the ride when I'm going flat out, especially with a stiff tailwind.

sharktamin wrote: Isn't getting within half a bike length of a stranger of unknown ability and intention just plain dangerous?

Yes, but I don't slipstream them, I slipsteam people who overtake and then slow down.

sharktamin wrote:If your racing, or training, then I understand. But surely you need to bring your own team mate? And wouldn't you want to follow your specific training plan and travel at your own pace? If your riding for excercise what's the point of slipstreaming and making it easy on yourself?

Slipsteaming for racing is a legitimate technique, making it easy on yourself to save energy for the final sprint to victory, you probably should practice it during training, my question was about commuting.

sharktamin wrote:It seams pointless to me.

YMMV

If someone pulled behind and asked, sure. If you wanna suck then blow past on a hill, fair enough, but be prepared for me to curse you between gasps for breath.

Case in point: I stopped at a set of lights on wednesday on my way home when a guy on a slick-tyred MTB pulls up next to me. Look over, nod, no acknowledgement, fair enough. He takes off on the red/green change anticipation stakes, I go on green, 150 meters later I'm right behind him.

A few corners later it turned out he was following the cycle route behind Neutral Bay, Cremorne, etc to the Spit Bridge. Not having ridden it before I backed off the whole way, sitting 20 meters behind him at a moderate pace to learn the route. Not close enough to be considered drafting, but maybe not far enough away to make him think "he's just getting home, like me". Next time I see him I'll be going around him. Then he'll probably go around me. And so on, and so forth.

Jim

familyguy wrote:Next time I see him I'll be going around him. Then he'll probably go around me. And so on, and so forth.

Good training partners are hard to come by. I hope you'll treasure what you've found.

I dont see why other cyclists using the same roadway as me cannot say hello or a nod. I usually give a nod or a smile to say hello if I am out training or a g'day if im out commuting. Depends on how much stress Im under. Doesnt take much to say hello.

As for slip streaming, if someone pulls in behind me, and I know they are there Ill glance back and see if they are just sucking a wheel or want to help. If they know what they are doing I dont mind if they sit there. If they are just sucking a wheel Ill try and drop them.

Likewise if I see a group of riders Ive tagged on the back, and I will have a crack at the front.

Bloke wearing an iPod riding a Pinarello Prince rudely pushed past me at traffic lights on my way home. Slipstreamed the hell out of him for the next few kilometres

As I remember, the rider at the front also gets some aerodynamic advantage from being slipstreamed. So a 'wheel sucker' is actually doing him a favor

My observations of the morning commute

* it's not a race or group ride
* most people are going at the wrong speed for wheel sucking
* passing someone ;b'is definitely[/b] seen a open invitation to wheel suck
* no-one's going where I'm going.

On the last point, it's a very, very rare day that someone's going in the same direction, at the same pace, at the same time as me for any useful distance.

It's nice when it happens, and inevitably we end up sharing pulls - particularly if there's a head wind.

I guess it happens once a year.
Maybe.

I dont understand what the big deal about "slipstreaming" while commuting is all about.

Whose ego is at play here?

Does the person tailing you slow you down at all? Make it harder for you on your ride? Does everyone have to ask permission to be within X metres of your bike?

I commute along Northbourne ave in Canberra in the mornings ... riding o the bike lane, next to some heavy traffic. Sometimes when coming up to slower riders, there is no option but to tailgate and wait for an opening in the traffic before getting the chance to overtake. Sometimes I am the one holding back faster riders, and they can a pull from me at abt 35km/h, and then blow past me when the traffic allows it.

Do I care? Do I expect them to greet me on the way past? I just continue on my way.

Guys its a commute, not a race, no prize to be gained by being first to the light, no prize lost with someone overtaking you on the hill.

Heres wishing all a safe commute!
Thomas

Nothing to do with ego - on the contrary I've been quite flattered on the occasions someone has seen fit to hug my wheel - it's simply that riding close enough to benefit from a slipstream is illegal and dangerous - particularly so if the rider in front isn't even aware you're there.

Ego may be a factor when it comes to choosing between politely requesting they either pass or drop back to leave a safe distance, or sprinting up a hill to drop 'em though