Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

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Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby eucryphia » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:19 pm

I've had two run-ins with busses lately.

#1
The first was on a one lane roundabout, I came through, slowly, but the school bus just kept coming missing me by a metre as I slowly pulled to the right and ended up against the kerb in the centre bit. The driver behind me couldn't believe it and asked if it had hit me. I suspect the bus driver didn't see me, I was close enough to see its side windows were fogged up. Just as well I go slowly through roundabouts and don't trust buses.

#2
Today I was taking a left hand off ramp from a main road with a marked bike lane, in the ACT these are marked with a wide strip of green paint indicating bikes have right of way, the NRMA don't like them, but the local drivers have got used to them. This exit ramp also has its own exit ramp peeling off to the left and has dotted white lines across it, I was going straight ahead. I indicate my intention to go straight ahead here by raising my right arm, because I've had a few cars cut me off in the past, tooting as they go. This time it was a huge silent white tour bus :shock:

I slammed on the anchors as he cut left into the 2nd exit ramp right in front of me, I was a bit worried about the large set of eight wheels about to crush me, so was he because he veered a little bit to the right. He could see I hadn't been run over so he just kept going.

I sent in a report on the ACT roads on line report tool, quoting the number plate which was too close to not notice, unless of course I had been run over.

I'll update if I hear back.
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by BNA » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:07 am

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Postby Pax » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:07 am

Hopefully not !!!!!! (3rd time unlucky that is...)

Glad you came out OK both times. Will be interested to hear if you get a response to your report.
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Postby itsaghostcar » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:43 am

Please don't add to the recent list of cycling incidents eucryphia.

Stay safe everyone
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby Aushiker » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:49 am

eucryphia wrote:I've had two run-ins with busses lately.

#1
The first was on a one lane roundabout, I came through, slowly, but the school bus just kept coming missing me by a metre as I slowly pulled to the right and ended up against the kerb in the centre bit. The driver behind me couldn't believe it and asked if it had hit me. I suspect the bus driver didn't see me, I was close enough to see its side windows were fogged up. Just as well I go slowly through roundabouts and don't trust buses.


Sorry to hear about your experiences. I find some drivers (seems to be from particular depots) are worse than others.

Anyway, with your roundabout, did you take the centre of the lane, so the bus had come up directly behind you (assuming I am reading you right)?

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Postby martinjs » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:24 pm

Must be lucky, the only buses we get out here are the school buses and from at least one I get a wave every morning. Thankfully the others always give me a wide berth. :)
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Postby m@ » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:41 pm

Personally I would also be reporting #2 to police... They won't do anything but should at least call the coach company with some gentle prompting from you, which in turn may make the coach company take it more seriously.
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Postby shandrick » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:21 pm

as usual australian roads safe as they have ever been for cyclists :roll:
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby eucryphia » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:49 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Anyway, with your roundabout, did you take the centre of the lane, so the bus had come up directly behind you (assuming I am reading you right)?

Andrew


I was going straight ahead through a T intersection roundabout, keeping well to my left following the curve of the roundabout, the bus came from my left to turn to his right. It's a small, one lane type on a 50kph urban street.

Gotta keep to the left around here, roundabouts are considered overtaking lanes :shock:
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Postby eucryphia » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:53 pm

Thanks for the moral support guys.

Everyone keep your wits about you and don't push your luck. :D
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby Aushiker » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:02 am

eucryphia wrote:Gotta keep to the left around here, roundabouts are considered overtaking lanes :shock:


Personally I think that is where you are opening yourself up to stupid driving and putting yourself at risk (and I know you should be able to stay left and go through safely but that is not reality so often).

Me, I would take the centre of the lane and that way they have to wait for you and follow you through the roundabout.

I have found once to often that where I have lapsed in judgement and not taken the centre of the lane that I will quickly have someone doing what happened to you; trying to pass me in the roundabout.

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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby Boognoss » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:10 am

Aushiker wrote:
eucryphia wrote:Gotta keep to the left around here, roundabouts are considered overtaking lanes :shock:


Personally I think that is where you are opening yourself up to stupid driving and putting yourself at risk (and I know you should be able to stay left and go through safely but that is not reality so often).

Me, I would take the centre of the lane and that way they have to wait for you and follow you through the roundabout.

I have found once to often that where I have lapsed in judgement and not taken the centre of the lane that I will quickly have someone doing what happened to you; trying to pass me in the roundabout.

Andrew


+1

That's my experience too.
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Postby eucryphia » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:14 pm

Aushiker and Boognos...

I guess I'm just not game to try the 'Large Cyclist' thing with the appalling standard of driving here in Canberra. Way too many tradies on their phones towing overwide trailers :(

And busdrivers in a hurry...
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Canberra Riding

Postby MJP Wilson » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:24 am

Hey Eucryphia, I agree there is an appalling standard of driving in Canberra. However, some riders are their own worst enemy. Riding to work the other day on the Monaro Highway onroad cycle lane, I 'undertook' (on his left side - with notice) another rider. He was on the white line separating the shoulder from the vehicle lane. I had a chat in passing and said, 'Left is Life' and got the bird given in return. With the number of vehicles drifting into the cycle lane, it is only a matter of time ... .

Regards Michael
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Re: Canberra Riding

Postby eucryphia » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:46 am

MJP Wilson wrote:However, some riders are their own worst enemy.


You're too right there :(

Running red lights, overtaking trucks on the left, weaving around in traffic.

I confess to taking liberties myself sometimes; I overtake on the left cars waiting at the lights where there is no designated bike lane (is that allowed?), some car drivers and the Action busses don't like that, they often pull right against the kerb to block you, sometimes even where there are bike lanes.
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Postby stryker84 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:36 am

If the cars are stationary at the lights, then yes, it's allowed - it's called filtering. If they're moving, and there's no bike lane, then no, that's overtaking on left, dangerous IMHO.

But even if you are filtering legally, use your common sense though. If the drivers look like they;d get aggro, I'd just wait behind them. What's a couple of car lengths compared to your safety, eh? Not worth the extra 3 seconds saved.
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby trailgumby » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:39 pm

Boognoss wrote:
Aushiker wrote:
eucryphia wrote:Gotta keep to the left around here, roundabouts are considered overtaking lanes :shock:


Personally I think that is where you are opening yourself up to stupid driving --- I have found once to often that where I have lapsed in judgement and not taken the centre of the lane that I will quickly have someone doing what happened to you; trying to pass me in the roundabout.

Andrew


+1

That's my experience too.


And mine.

Being a "Big cyclist" is a state of mind:

I ride my bike like I drive my car - like I have a right to be there, like I have a right to be where drivers will register my presence. Wherever practical I take the middle of the lane on approach to a roundabout.

If I ride timid I get treated like I don't belong. It's safer to be assertive.
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Postby hartleymartin » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:03 pm

I've only had one problem with a bus. He pulled in front of me and braked hard to get to a bus stop. Most stupidly I was not even 20m from there. He should have just waited for me to ride past. I didn't get hit of clipped, but it was just far too close for comfort, and the driver was obviously ignorant to the stopping distances required of a bicycle. I only just pulled up behind him in time. My only other option would have been to swerve around him and put myself into the line of traffic. Stronger brakes are on the list of possible upgrades, especially since I have racks, panniers and lots of carry bags on the bicycle for commuting.

Bus drivers are normally very considerate to cyclists. In my experience van drivers arn't.
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby il padrone » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:31 pm

trailgumby wrote:Being a "Big cyclist" is a state of mind:

I ride my bike like I drive my car - like I have a right to be there, like I have a right to be where drivers will register my presence. Wherever practical I take the middle of the lane on approach to a roundabout.

If I ride timid I get treated like I don't belong. It's safer to be assertive.

+1

I also ride with a rear-view mirror, so can monitor traffic behind. If a car is looming closer, then when I'm about 50 metres from a roundabout (or one of those chicanes) I will 'close the gate' by moving right to occupy the centre of the lane.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby MJP Wilson » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:19 pm

Hey Eucryphia, you must have put the mocca on me. This is what happened to me coming home. I have reported the incident to ACTION Bus management:

At about 1652 (4:52pm) on Monday 23 February 2009, I was riding my bicycle South at a speed of about 26kmh within the Northbourne Avenue on-road cycle lane and had just proceeded through the Bunda Street intersection approaching London Circuit on a green light. At that time I noticed Action Bus 116, behind another bus, at the bus stop, prior to the intersection. As I approached Bus 116, I heard a nearby diesel engine change speed. I looked at the rear of Bus 116 and continued to approach. When I was approximately 4 metres from the rear of the bus, it pulled out without indicating. I immediately braked and to avoid colliding with the bus, was forced out of the Cycle Lane. I was very lucky that there was no traffic to my right. I then observed the right indicator on the rear of the bus come on. At this time the intersection lights changed to red for Northbourne Avenue traffic and Bus 116 came to a stop at the lights straddling the left turn lane and the Cycle lane. I rode up to the opened driver’s side window and said to the driver, ‘Hey mate, I did not appreciate you not indicating when you pulled out just then’. The driver remained facing forward and did not even acknowledge my presence. Without a word from him and as I say, without so much as an acknowledgment, he reached over and closed his window. I then proceeded to the front of the bus, confirmed the registration number and when the lights changed proceeded on my way.

The action of the driver in pulling out without indicating, forced me to brake and to change direction suddenly. If another vehicle had been alongside me, I most certainly would have collided with that vehicle. I am not at all impressed with the actions of the driver concerned nor am I happy with his appalling and ignorant attitude. Maybe he was having a bad day, however, he did not even have the courage to admit his mistake and say sorry. I am unaware if ACT buses are fitted with audio or visual recording. If they are, then my version can be corroborated. If not then obviously it will be my word against the word of the driver. You can decide. I would like an apology and would also like management to counsel the driver and make him aware that the road is there for all to share and that courtesy doesn't cost much.

regards Michael
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Postby eucryphia » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:19 pm

Sorry to hear that MJP, you can't assume anything in the CBD, it's dog-eat-dog out there.

It's hard to believe it possible but Fyshwick is worse, I'm sure the tradies must be possessed, not for the faint hearted.
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Postby rustychisel » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:06 pm

MJPW, happens all the time here. Buses have a "give way to buses" pulling out sign on them, which the drivers use as a license to act as c**ts. It is not.

They're running to tight deadlines, they're bigger than you, poorly paid, don't give a Showtime and also cumbersome. Having said that, I've seen some truly appalling driving around them (cutting in etc) and it must be a very fraught job.

Bus drivers have a duty of care (not only to their passengers) and should be trained to an appropriate standard, and held accountable. Go get 'em.

Many years ago when I was a hairy uni student I had more than one incident where the bus drivers shielded or hid their identity badge from me, or drove off hurriedly, in order to obviate any chance of me making an official complaint.
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Busses: 3rd time unlucky

Postby MJP Wilson » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:28 pm

Thanks rustychisel. I have decided to forget trying to TT in the vicinity of buses and will now approach them with a 'might is right' attitude. However, having said that I am now very chuffed and happy with myself.

Riding home tonight I saw that line markings in the area I had the bus incident (reported three above) have been re-done. Also, and more importantly, the onroad cycle lane just before the intersection has also been painted green. It just goes to show that if you correctly report a matter eventually there will be progress.

Regards Michael
regards and have a grand cycle day!

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Postby ajh_ausnzcf » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:21 pm

...appalling standard of driving here in Canberra.


That matches with the rest of Australia. Seems to be a driver educate themselves situation and that doesn't work with a majority of people. :(
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky

Postby trailgumby » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:02 pm

MJP Wilson wrote:Riding home tonight I saw that line markings in the area I had the bus incident (reported three above) have been re-done. Also, and more importantly, the onroad cycle lane just before the intersection has also been painted green. It just goes to show that if you correctly report a matter eventually there will be progress.

Regards Michael

Not wanting to rain on your parade - or cycle lane - but if it has in fact been painted as opposed to surfaced with green asphalt I'd not be riding on that piece of pavement in the wet:
Paint + water = zero traction.


Stay upright, folks.
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Re: Busses: 3rd time unlucky?

Postby MJP Wilson » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:22 pm

Hey trailgumby, I don't think there is any rain to do it on the parade! With builders rubble, 'bogan droppings', fallen branches as well as overhanging vegetation and kamikaze pedestrians all along my route, it becomes a pleasure to ride the green. The 'green' in question is a product called, 'Degadur, a long lasting line-marking paint which has a minimum skid resistance of 45 BPN. I haven't yet had an issue with a loss of traction on the green.
regards and have a grand cycle day!

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