Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Beating the system - the cycling commuting section

Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby Morty » Fri May 01, 2009 7:16 pm

Hi everyone, I’m from the University of NSW in my final year of industrial design and am currently conducting research for my final year project. I’m an avid rider, commuting several times a week on my roadie hence my project topic.

The aim of the project is to develop a product that will improve the safety of current cyclists whilst riding on the road which in turn hopefully gets more people commuting by bike. Whilst making cycling as a whole safer and more enjoyable.

- Being aware of the lack of infrastructure particularly in Sydney presently I’d really like to hear your opinions on riding and how safe you feel with the products you have available to you especially whilst commuting. Do you feel there is an area that requires improvement where you don’t feel safe or comfortable whilst riding?

- What are your opinions on the relationship between riders and car users. Do you think that increased predictability on a riders behalf would improve this relationship and is there a gap in the market for a product that may help with this?

- Lastly if you have an experiences you would like to share that would be terrific, the more insight the better!


Unfortunately we are a long way from the ideal world where riders have their own separate paths but until then hopefully through the design of different products this gap in safety can be improved.

I really appreciate your time in helping me answer these questions, my insights only go so far on the topic and from the information I have read on here there is a lot of experienced knowledgeable people.

If you’d like to contact me and discuss anything that would be great at anytime.
My contact details are [email protected]
Or 0415 145 472

I look forward to your responses.
Cheers,
James Morton
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by BNA » Fri May 01, 2009 8:01 pm

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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 01, 2009 8:01 pm

I was thinking something like one of those "bang sticks" that divers used to use in the seventies on sharks that got too close, except it works on cars and buses.

Bus tailgates too close? Just reach around and whack it on the nose with the bang stick. Dead bus. Won't bother any cyclist again. Tradie in a trayback starts hurling abuse and tries to to squeeze the cyclist into the kerb or the door zone? Give the ute a kiss with the bang stick just in front of the gills, and it's dead. Won't bother any cyclist ever again. But it has to leave the pilot fish (occupants) alone, OK?

Something like that wold be ggrreat! Do you reckon you could manage it? :D
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby hartleymartin » Sat May 02, 2009 12:26 am

What is missing? Where do I start?

1.) Culture - Australia does not have a strong cycling culture. This is the first thing that needs to change.

2.) Cycle-specific Infrastructure - Cycle-ways need to be built, secure parking facilities need to be built, public transport (trains, buses, trams, etc) need to be built to carry a large number of bicycles for commuting.

3.) Encourage cycling - abolish the requirement to pay for bicycle carriage on public transport.

I am an advocate of town planning abolishing street parking on certain streets and creating full-width bicycle lanes (not silly half-width lanes)

Perhaps I need to sit down, do some research and provide you with a report because I really just don't know where to start, and where to go and where to stop!

Cities need to be completely re-designed to no longer be car-orientated, but to be people-orientated. Whole cities need to be re-designed so that people can walk and cycle everywhere. With the issue of peak oil, I see motor cars becoming a thing of the past.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby Nobody » Sat May 02, 2009 12:44 am

Edit: Decided not to comment.
Last edited by Nobody on Sat May 02, 2009 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby sharktamin » Sat May 02, 2009 12:55 am

How about a roof for my bike to keep the rain off. Perhaps closed cell foam filled with helium to reduce weight.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones » Sat May 02, 2009 7:31 am

trailgumby wrote:I was thinking something like one of those "bang sticks" that divers used to use in the seventies on sharks that got too close, except it works on cars and buses.

Bus tailgates too close? Just reach around and whack it on the nose with the bang stick. Dead bus. Won't bother any cyclist again. Tradie in a trayback starts hurling abuse and tries to to squeeze the cyclist into the kerb or the door zone? Give the ute a kiss with the bang stick just in front of the gills, and it's dead. Won't bother any cyclist ever again. But it has to leave the pilot fish (occupants) alone, OK?

Something like that wold be ggrreat! Do you reckon you could manage it? :D


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Funniest thing I've read all bloody year!!!!!!

That's GOLD!
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby AUbicycles » Sat May 02, 2009 8:44 am

This is going to be a tough project - I also studied Industrial design years ago and for my final project did a cycling related product (did quite well in that there were a number of industry requests for the finished product - though it was a still only concept and all of the R&D and setup / tooling costs etc etc would have to be calculated.)

I will answer your questions as best as I can in order to help, though know that it will be tough to find the ultimate solution as in Australia the question of safe riding is largely due to the car culture (as hartleymartin wrote) and a technical (product) solution is not necessarily the be-all and end-all.


- Being aware of the lack of infrastructure particularly in Sydney presently I’d really like to hear your opinions on riding and how safe you feel with the products you have available to you especially whilst commuting. Do you feel there is an area that requires improvement where you don’t feel safe or comfortable whilst riding?


A few things come to mind:

• Air Zound is very useful. Aside from it being obnoxiously loud, it is loud enough for a car to hear and a warning toot of this air horn is a good safety precaution.

• Space is the biggest issue - the closer a car is, or passes, the more dangerous it is. A bit dorky looking are the those plastic attachments to the bike: Bicycle space maker reflector (see pic)
Image

• Not necessarily the height of fashion - ultra reflective cycling gear - though obviously, the more visible a cyclist is - the easy they are to notice and avoid.

• Another recent post in this forum showed a RTA design indicator unit for bicycles - though there were a few legal issues that makes it more impractical than practical.

• In yet another thread we discussed rear-vision mirrors for cyclists - an old idea and while they are probably good - they have not been largely accepted and utilised by the riding community.

Beyond technology, I feel more comfortable when I am more aware of traffic and hope that other traffic are more aware of me and my rights as a cyclist.


- What are your opinions on the relationship between riders and car users. Do you think that increased predictability on a riders behalf would improve this relationship and is there a gap in the market for a product that may help with this?

Do you mean that for a car driver, cyclists actions are more predictable or that a cyclist can better predict situtations.
A thought comes into mind - fixed wheel riders who travel with the traffic and without hand brakes are said to better predict or judge a situation in advance compared to other cyclists (so they can avoid dangerous situations because they don't have the same stopping power). That means, as fixies are effectively more dangerous in traffic, the riders, aware of their limitations and potential, can better judge and avoid dangerous situations.

I will suggest that one of the most dangerous traffic situations is when a bike rider wishes to continues straight ahead at an intersection and a driver wishes to turn left - overlooking the cyclist and cars entering the traffic from the left who also overlook he cyclist. Personally, in such situations I ensure that I am able to stop quickly and look behind and also to see if there is traffic entering the intersection. A proximity meter is too hard of an ask, though for the sake of judging such situations - together with GPS, awarning of potentially dangerous situations (flashing light) can assist in making the cyclist slow down and more aware. Realistically the market adaption of this idea would be slow unless there were convincing USPs.


- Lastly if you have an experiences you would like to share that would be terrific, the more insight the better!

Marketing is important - not only the idea and the design, but how it can be communicated to cyclists so that commuters would realistically invest X dollars to purchase a device. It makes sense to distinguish the various types of commuters - a quick and probably incomplete run through:
• touring types with panniers
• weekend road racers (who commute)
• weekend MTBers (who commute)
• functional hybrid riders
• leisurely Holland bike riders
• designer/urban types with singlespeeds and fixies#
• hard core cycle couriers (messengers).

It is probably sensible to target one or two of these markets or is it possible to create the ultimate product that the market will adopt?

Without giving you a single specific idea, I hope that my feedback is useful. It is certainly worthwhile considering that a single product will never satisfy everyone - though as long as it satisfies enough people and can offers a good ROI (Return on Investment) then that's the main thing. Also a tip for the project, the end solution does not necessarily need to be realistic in todays terms - rather products that are attractive and show potential (the cool looking ideas) steal the limelight while boring products (even if they are realistic) are more easily overlooked.

Cheers
Christopher
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby trailgumby » Sat May 02, 2009 9:18 am

+1 to Christopher's advice about branding and distribution actually being more important for success than the product itself.

But since you are a design student, we'll narrow the scope to design and product. Indicators and effective horns are both excellent areas to examine, as neither has really hit the nail on the head design wise so far. The issue for me with both is that they are relatively bulky and cumbersome.

Indicators: Somthing wireless, and wide enough for motorists to distinguish without getting in the way of cyclists' legs would be a huge improvement. Perhaps on the seat stays at rear? Wireless gets rif of ugly spaghetti all over the bike, a turnoff for quite a few. Most important: wireless gives allows you to mount the rocker switch where the rider can still get to it without having to take hands off levers.

Similar issue with the horns. Horn unit needs to be smaller and more attractive. Air Zound is great loudness-wise, but ugly, big, and impossible to get to when you most need it: when you're hard on hte brakes. Wireless will let you put horn unit in behind the steerer tube where it's not hanging out creating mucho drag, and the button where it's easily reachable by thumb when you're throwing out the anchors. Horns're not much good if you have to choose between braking or making your presence known. One that can let you do both is a big step forward.
<Edited for brevity>
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby drubie » Sat May 02, 2009 9:47 am

It's interesting to me that the comments so far mostly fall on the "defensive" side - it's like apologising for being a cyclist by fitting a few bits of shiny to your bike that you'll be safer, or by being segregated out to the ghetto of bike specific infrastructure we'll be safer.

Of all the "products" mentioned so far only one makes sense to me - making cities people oriented rather than motor vehicle oriented. Quit feeding the beast!
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby rmgrimes79 » Sat May 02, 2009 10:04 am

WOw morty you really opened up a can of worms there ..... whats wrong with bikes on the road and car users: i would say the ignorance of car/ bus/ truck drivers --- however we all know that there are both good drivers who give us cyclists room to move and there are stupid idiot drivers who like to see how close they can get to the cyclist.

On top of that you get the good and bad cyclists - we all know the types, the road is theirs look out if something gets in their way, not to mention the unlawful, no helmet wearing, red light running, no light using F@(king low lifes that dont deserve to be mentioned in the word cyclist.

Canberra, i think, has one of the best cycling routes, it doesnt go everywhere but it is designed to go most places ...... it is apart from the traffic and its own little network of paths. but that is canberra and i doubt we can get our government to plan a bicycle network in every town/ city across Australia :(

Then as hartley man has suggested Australia has a culture of lazziness - everyone needs their 2 cars, tv, ride on mower and fast food eatery open 24 hours a day. 56% of the adult population is overweight, thats more than in most European countries and the USA!!! and we give crap to the yanks!!!

but i do like trailgumbies car gun .... where can i get me one of those? :twisted:
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby hartleymartin » Sat May 02, 2009 10:12 am

Watch any number of films about Copenhagen and Amsterdam. You will notice that there is virtually no on-street parking. The lane that would have been occupied by parked cars is now occupied by cyclists. There are a large number of streets where this is practical. Do you live in Sydney? Travel to Fairfield, particularly to The Boulevard in Fairfield Heights, where the shopping district is. There are two car parks there, both of which are basically empty most of the time, as people park on the street. The length of the whole street plus part of Oxford Street (not the one of ill-repute) would create a link between two major cycle-ways, which would run straight through a shopping and business district. I can foretell complaints from business that people won't come there any more, but for some reason people don't mind spending lots of time looking for parking places in Westfields and then walking around and around to get to the shop they want to use!

Similarly, The Horsley Drive is a main road that runs through Fairfield and Smithfield. Brennan Street runs parallel for a large part and is low-traffic, almost all residential. Eliminate on-street parking and use that space as a bicycle lane. Nearly all the people who park on that street are residents who should park their cars in their drive-ways instead!

Another example is Station Street in Fairfield. Now I know that I may seem biased as I happen to live on this street, but hear me out. There is a child-care centre and a primary school close to the intersection with the Boulevard, which I have mentioned in my first paragraph. Elimination of on-street parking on Station Street, and the use of a full-width cycle lane would allow children to ride bicycles to school in greater safety. Otherwise, replacing the footpath with a wider paved cycle-way would do equally well, as children under 12 are permitted to ride on footpaths. Most car parking on Station street is again, residential (people should use their driveways anyway), and a drop-off-zone for parents taking their kids to school up at one end.

Ideally, there would not be just bicycle lanes, but dedicated cycle-ways which could be used for commuting. Most cycle-ways appear to be focussed on tourers and recreational cyclists. The loss of some on-street parking will be a pain for a short while only. The fact is that a shocking number of car trips are incredibly short (under 5km), which is a distance easily covered in under 30 minutes by bicycle. Having full-width cycle lanes, and cycle-ways with practical destinations will help decrease the public perception that cycling on the road is extreme and dangerous.

On the streets where these full-width cycle lanes have been created the speed limit should also be either 30kph or 40kph. I haven't researched a lot of literature on speed limits, but from a British study, 30kph seems to be the "tipping point" of speed limits where pedestrians and cyclists have a 90%+ survival rate. The lower speed limit would also deter motorists from using the street, and would tend to funnel them off to other roads where this limit is not imposed. I must emphasise that the streets on which I propose to create this lower speed limit tend to be only lightly trafficked anyway. In the case of The Boulevard in Fairfield Heights, It is rare to get up to more than 40kph on most sections because of the numerous round-a-bouts, pedestrian crossings and general traffic congestion of people turning into the numerous residential side streets and trying to find parking.

Another issue is legislation. Unfortunately cyclists are at a disadvantage at the moment. We need to take the perspective that a motorist is piloting a potentially lethal machine and is responsible for the safe handling of that machine. When the driver sees a cyclist, the onus should be on the driver to ensure that he/she drives in a manner which does not potentially endanger them.

I've been able to give you 3 examples of streets which could be very simply and very cheaply re-oriented for cycling which would have minimal impact on car traffic. What town planners need to do is to take off their Armani suits, get out of their cars, pick up a bicycle and ride around their local streets to see where potential infrastructure changes could be made. The lanes need not just be painted down. An ideal would be to have a small concrete barrier the height of a standard gutter (much along the lines of traffic islands).

Have I given you some food for thought?
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby hartleymartin » Sat May 02, 2009 10:21 am

rmgrimes79 wrote:WOw morty you really opened up a can of worms there ..... whats wrong with bikes on the road and car users: i would say the ignorance of car/ bus/ truck drivers --- however we all know that there are both good drivers who give us cyclists room to move and there are stupid idiot drivers who like to see how close they can get to the cyclist.

On top of that you get the good and bad cyclists - we all know the types, the road is theirs look out if something gets in their way, not to mention the unlawful, no helmet wearing, red light running, no light using F@(king low lifes that dont deserve to be mentioned in the word cyclist.

Canberra, i think, has one of the best cycling routes, it doesnt go everywhere but it is designed to go most places ...... it is apart from the traffic and its own little network of paths. but that is canberra and i doubt we can get our government to plan a bicycle network in every town/ city across Australia :(

Then as hartley man has suggested Australia has a culture of lazziness - everyone needs their 2 cars, tv, ride on mower and fast food eatery open 24 hours a day. 56% of the adult population is overweight, thats more than in most European countries and the USA!!! and we give crap to the yanks!!!

but i do like trailgumbies car gun .... where can i get me one of those? :twisted:


Oh, you must realise that I am an inherently lazy man. I'm too lazy to go out and buy a car, I'm too lazy to have to get the car registered, insured, mechanically checked over, filled with petrol, water and oil, I'm too lazy to have to make a million-point-turn to get out of my narrow drive-way, I'm too lazy to drive around looking for parking, I'm too lazy to make all the necessary checks to keep a car running, I'm too lazy to go to the gym, I'm too lazy to organise car-pooling. I'M JUST BLOODY LAZY!

Bicycles are convenient - I unlock her from the pole in front of my house (I live in a set of town-houses off the main street by the way), I don't even bother making vehicular checks. The ride down the end of my drive-way always tells me if something is wrong, such as flat tyre, loose parts, bell, lights, etc. I have shops less than 1km from my house (my LBS exactly 1km from my house), church is about 3km away, mate's house about 2km away, TAFE college 5km away (the longest of any of my general getting-about trips), railway station about 3km away (mostly downhill too!) Because I ride regularly, I am keeping fit, which means I don't have to go to the gym, and the best part of it all, is that despite spending loads of money with a severe case of upgraditis, I have spent less money on my bicycle in the past 6 months than I used to spend on petrol! Lets start thinking of maintenance, insurance, gym membership, etc and you can see that by ditching the car and cycling everywhere, I actually spend less effort on just keeping things running, and I have saved an insane amount of money! And I did it all because I am just bloody lazy - ask my Mum - she knows.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby trailgumby » Sat May 02, 2009 10:31 am

My, we've got some novel-length submissions going here, haven't we? :lol:
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby hartleymartin » Sat May 02, 2009 10:36 am

I forgot to mention another important thing - this is just staying in Fairfield still. PARKING!

Fairfield Railway Station is an important public transport hub in this part of Sydney. It has the heavy rail link which takes you into Sydney CBD in about 50 minutes, can take you to Parramatta CBD in about 20 minutes, and into Liverpool CBD in about 15 minutes. It has all the major bus routes heading out into the suburbs, and aside from the Liverpool to Parramatta T-way these buses are often the ONLY form of public transport available to thousands upon thousands of commuters who end up just driving because public transport is not convenient.

THERE IS NO SECURE BICYCLE PARKING! Most bicycles in Fairfield end up locked up on fences and street poles. Thieves recently made off with $90 of gear off my bicycle which was parked at the railway station, in what I thought was a secure place right in full view of the station office (I have a friend who works there too funnily enough). There are no bicycle racks, there are no bicycle lockers! NO BICYCLE FACILITIES AT ALL!

There is a small car-park at the Northern end of Fairfield Station, which is located right next to a footbridge which crosses the railway line (which also has ramps which makes it ideal for bicycles to cross). Re-allocation of this space as a secure bicycle parking facility, under-cover, with security cameras, and dare I suggest it, a full-time attendant or attendants would convince the public that they can safely leave their bicycles there. It also happens to be just on the opposite side of the Liverpool to Parramatta cycle-way, which links up with two other important cycle ways heading out west, one just north which follows Propect Creek and goes all the way to Pemulway and Blacktown, the other to the south which follows Orphan School Creek, and heads out to Fairfield Showground, where we have local markets every Saturday, and the local BUG is based. This cycle-way goes all the way out to Cecil Hills and right to the extrene west of Sydney's Metropolitan area! There are large station car-parking facilities, this is the smallest of them (only holds about 20 cars I think). All you need is to place an extra ticket machine in this facility, and you would streamline people getting to Fairfield on bicycles and hopping straight onto the train for a commute to any one of the major CBD's in the Sydney Metropolitan Area. The 20 cars parked there would be eliminated by the increased numbers of people who would cycle to the station, lock up their bicycles and catch the train instead of driving one person in a car there and just taking up space. An incentive to make people cycle to Fairfield Railway Station would be to impose a small parking fee, of say $2 per day. This is purely a nominal fee, which would easily fund the change in infrastructure to accommodate bicycle parking facilities.

Oh, and abolish bicycle tickets on trains, install racks to carry bicycles on buses and trams, and make their carriage free as well, and you will see a significant increase in cycling in Sydney, reduced traffic congestion.

RAILWAYS! Abolish train time-tables, Use a metro-style system where trains run continuously every 10 to 15 minutes, create rail corridors, where trains operate in a continuous cycle. The reduction in services several years ago has only exacerbated the problem of train over-crowding, poor services, and dis-satisfied commuters.

I had better get off my keyboard and eat breakfast, before I preach people's ears to bleeding!
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones » Sat May 02, 2009 12:10 pm

"Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?"

Car drivers, and pedestrians, with eyes!
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby AUbicycles » Sat May 02, 2009 11:26 pm

One of the issues here on the car verses cyclist topic is that Morty has to design a product (solution) and the current angle is something which the cyclist can use. I agree with the comments and that the society and culture really needs to be improved to cater for cyclists though these are not product design related.

An angle however are solutions that a not (eg) bike mounted or on/with the cyclist directly, rather a product design solution for the infrastructure - though probably an even tougher task as it goes further than just creating signage and information systems.

Though - hartleymartin you are definately onto something - an incentive system in which an intelligent (and well designed) solution provides alternatives to cyclists or drivers. An extension of your idea is not to cater to cyclists, rather encourage drivers to give up their daily commute - this way there is less car traffic and indirectly fulfills the goal of making cycling safer, though what kind of product would do this - (brainstorming) free wireless LAN in trains or cool video display in trains.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby il padrone » Sat May 02, 2009 11:31 pm

Motor cars with panels of 4mm thick expanded polystyrene shells, with max 50cc engines :lol:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby wombatK » Sun May 03, 2009 9:01 pm

Just a couple of ideas inspired by some recent threads:

1) auto-cancelling blinkers with wireless button control (wireless control perhaps similar to http://www.bicygnals.com/ product, but with auto-cancelling). This could be based on sensing rotation of front fork or maybe something more complex with the very sensitive accelerometer chips used in products like the Skyscout star finder. If the Skyscout can figure out where you are and what you've got to do to point towards a star, maybe the same technology could be used to work out that your bike is turning then not turning (the accelerometer chips that drive these are dirt-cheap, IIRC, around $US 8, so the product would not have to be ridiculously priced.). Don't think there was much enthusiasm for the bicygnals design, so improving on how the blinkers might be implemented is another product idea you could think about.

2) automatic brake light - using accelerometers to determine deceleration and automatically lighting "stop" light. Must able to differentiate between deliberate braking and accidental sources such as headwinds, sudden gradient increase (vertical acceleration ? )

Might even be practical to combine 1 & 2 if using an accelerometer based approach.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby drubie » Sun May 03, 2009 9:14 pm

wombatK wrote:Just a couple of ideas inspired by some recent threads:

1) auto-cancelling blinkers

2) automatic brake light - using accelerometers to determine deceleration and automatically lighting "stop" light. Must able to differentiate between deliberate braking and accidental sources such as headwinds, sudden gradient increase (vertical acceleration ? )

Might even be practical to combine 1 & 2 if using an accelerometer based approach.


Auto cancelling blinkers sound nice - but every design I've seen makes them useless - they just aren't far enough out from the bike to make any difference to a motor vehicle closing at 30Km/h+ your speed. At that speed, they're lucky to even see you, let alone give a damn whether your indicator is on.

Auto brake light is basically useless for the same reason. Motorists don't give a hoot if you're braking - as if that is going to stop you becoming a hood ornament anyway. Better to just be more visible, full stop. I vote for 100 lumen radioactive tires. But I'd bet I DIDN'T SEE YOU would still happen. The problem is not "not being seen", the problem is "i never farkin look".

Even better, I vote for the principles of vehicular cycling be made the official road rules for bicycles. It's the only proven way to be visible.
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but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby il padrone » Sun May 03, 2009 9:31 pm

drubie wrote:Auto cancelling blinkers sound nice - but every design I've seen makes them useless - they just aren't far enough out from the bike to make any difference to a motor vehicle closing at 30Km/h+ your speed. At that speed, they're lucky to even see you, let alone give a damn whether your indicator is on.

Not to mention the legal requirement to signal with an outstretched hand. Blinkers would be a nice add-on, but I'm happy to get by without. If you really feel the need the SafeTurn uses the legally-required arm signal to give a blinker light, and it is auto-cancelling too :D
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby hartleymartin » Sun May 03, 2009 10:15 pm

il padrone wrote:Motor cars with panels of 4mm thick expanded polystyrene shells, with max 50cc engines :lol:


We've already got those - but unfortunately not enough of them!

Image

Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson (considered by many cyclists to be the anti-Christ), does a favourable review of it:
http://www.topgear.com/au/videos/tiny-apeel

And the obligatory Wikipedia page on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_P50
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby wombatK » Sun May 03, 2009 10:32 pm

drubie wrote:The problem is not "not being seen", the problem is "i never farkin look".

So maybe what you'd like to see is some kind of automatic bicycle detection and proximity warning system - fitted to cars, maybe to give motorist an electric shock via a cattle prod in the ribs or automatically apply brakes ? :twisted:
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby Mulger bill » Sun May 03, 2009 10:43 pm

Just a thought on indicator placement...
Image
These units from T7 are red but the concept could work with some wireless trickery.

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby wombatK » Sun May 03, 2009 11:04 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Just a thought on indicator placement...
Image
These units from T7 are red but the concept could work with some wireless trickery.

Shaun

When I tried a zefal spy mirror in my roadie bar-ends, I got a great view of my skinny legs, and not much of what was behind them. So I'm wondering whether these bar-end lights could be seen by anyone behind the bike. Trying to find somewhere on a road bike to mount a forward-projecting blinker light is a serious challenge.

Maybe something might be possible with a LED strip on front forks - http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/moto ... -light.htm . Or a pair of indicators attached to the stem (below handlebar, above wheel) - like is done with motobikes.
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Re: Improving safety, what’s missing for commuters?

Postby il padrone » Sun May 03, 2009 11:38 pm

hartleymartin wrote:
il padrone wrote:Motor cars with panels of 4mm thick expanded polystyrene shells, with max 50cc engines :lol:


We've already got those - but unfortunately not enough of them!

Image

Panels are too tough! Needs to be easily penetrable :twisted:
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