You need a mirror. As Molly Meldrum used to say; 'do yerself a favour and hook one up'.BrownOnionThighs wrote:Fair enough, but ...m@ wrote:Sound like he should have read the situation better - it's definitely good practice to give an audible warning (calling 'bike passing right' etc is at least as good as ringing a bell IMO) and given more clearance if passing at speed.
However, it is up to you to check that the lane you are moving into is clear before changing lanes. 'He came out of nowhere' sounds an awful lot like what smidsy motorists say when they fail to shoulder-check (or fail to see a bike right in front of 'em ).
I did head-check. But in a head check, I'm not looking directly behind me, or behind and to the left of me - I'm not looking at the lane I'm in, I'm looking at the lane I'm going to. There's plenty of unsighted space behind me for a bike to be sitting in. And that's where this guy must have been.
Bell gripe
- Supe
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:04 am
- Location: Darwin NT
Re: Bell gripe
Postby Supe » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:24 am
- hiflange
- Posts: 1939
- Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 9:27 pm
- Location: Perth
- Contact:
Re: Bell gripe
Postby hiflange » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:01 am
Surely it can't be a weight weenie thing, what are they 15grams, 20? Any advance on 20??
-
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:22 pm
- Location: Upper Sturt South Australia
Re: Bell gripe
Postby 318ute » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:11 am
My issue is the bike lanes are generally in Adelaide wide enough for one bike and as we all know there is crap from the smoke wagons almost exclusively in the bike lane which requires close attention and steering input to avoid flats.
If as most cyclist do we swerve to miss the crap but we remain in the lane and we are unaware of someone coming past we could have a problem because there is quite often a speed differential and unlike a motorvehicle there is no engine noise to heighten your awarness and some other cyclists seem to think it's cool to shave but not for motorvehicles?
The passing vehicle/cyclist has the major responsibility to overtake safely and if the lead cyclist is changing lanes then he has the responsibility to look before moving lanes.
I do see as other points of view have raised that this is a joint responsibility, but I don't group ride, I commute and I am not comfortable having another cyclist skim past me and assuming everyone is experienced could end badly for all? Not trying to make a big deal, but I don't expect a fellow cyclist to become a cause for concern on my commute?
Merida 905, Giant Xtc2, Trek 3900
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:22 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby WonkyWheels » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:50 pm
Most accident/collision on foot/bicycle/motor-vehicle can be avoided if you are more observant of your surroundings. Scan with your eyes and always head-check.
Don’t blame others next time you have a close call or accident but try to learn from it and avoid it in the future. This is particularly true for bicycles because no matter who hits you, even if it’s not your fault and you have right of way, you lose....
-
- Posts: 7198
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 2:28 pm
- Location: Brunswick
Re: Bell gripe
Postby Missy24 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:12 pm
When they design a bell that doesn't look like a bell and when they can make it small enough to fit on my bike so my handle bars don't look like a dash board from a flight simulator... Then I will put a bell in my bike, I don't care if it costs $50.00 to make it look pretty and neat, I don't like stuff on my bikeRobertFrith wrote:Anyway, why wouldn't you have a bell? They cost all of $1.99.
Surely it can't be a weight weenie thing, what are they 15grams, 20? Any advance on 20??
- jules21
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
- Location: deep in the pain cave
Re: Bell gripe
Postby jules21 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:30 pm
i think you're confusing my saying that someone who is overtaking is responsible for warning others in front with meaning that the latter bear no responsibilities. i think everyone has a responsibility to ride with due care on shared/bike paths.simonn wrote:Your view < the law, by a long way.jules21 wrote:i'm firmly of the view it is the responsibility of the passing rider to warn a rider in front, when passing them. as others have pointed out, you don't need a bell, a simple "passing!" will do.
Relying on a "passing!", "ting ting" or "honk honk", however polite it may be, is dangerous precisely because it is not the law, ergo there is absolutely no requirement for a passing rider do do it.
on the road, it is a specific offence to change lanes and overtake unless the driver has ensured it is safe to do so. generally, the road rules are very prescriptive around allowable behaviour on roads - which do not include bike or shared paths (this is a point of much confusion - although the road rules as a body of legislation apply to shared paths, many of the specific rules contained within it do not).
the bottom line is, the rules around behaviour on shared bike paths are relatively undeveloped. there are some specific rules - i.e. keep left and give way to pedestrians. i could be wrong, but i suspect you'd find it hard to convince a police officer that a rider who veered in your path as you attempted to overtake him on a shared path had broken the law. thus, common sense and courtesy is the best policy.
- x8pg2qr
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby x8pg2qr » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:37 pm
I think there are many reasons—Missy24 mentions one in a following post. But all reasons are invalidated if the bell is legally required.RobertFrith wrote:Anyway, why wouldn't you have a bell? They cost all of $1.99.
Surely it can't be a weight weenie thing, what are they 15grams, 20? Any advance on 20??
There are also many reasons to not have a helmet, to run a red light, to ride across pedestrian crossings—but none are valid, as these are illegal. I would sometimes love to ride without a helmet as well (uphill, summertime), but I don't. Cos… it's illegal.
As for the OP: I think the lack-of-bell-ringing is a red herring. The other rider's fault was not giving the OP enough space, or not following the useful "assume you're invisible to other people" guide. What the other rider did (as the OP described) is bad practice, whether or not he had a bell. It doesn't change anything if he rang a bell—what if the OP was deaf? The other rider should still have read the situation and gave more space.
Now, I wasn't there, so my opinion may mean naught.
- simonn
- Posts: 3763
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:46 am
- Location: Sydney
Re: Bell gripe
Postby simonn » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:45 pm
BrownOnionThighs was in a "bike lane", therefore on the road. Did he "ensure it was safe to" "change lanes"? No.jules21 wrote: on the road, it is a specific offence to change lanes and overtake unless the driver has ensured it is safe to do so.
Did the other rider? Possibly.
- jules21
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
- Location: deep in the pain cave
Re: Bell gripe
Postby jules21 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:02 pm
- ColinOldnCranky
- Posts: 6734
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:15 pm
As a passing cyclist, it is emcumbant on you to be aware of these limitations and to treat the situation as the worst possible case.
Before all you "excellent" riders say everyone else should up the skills, you are likely denying your own occasional problem with these basic maneuvres. I mean, in traffic, how many thousands of times a year do you do these maneuvres. MANY. They will not always be perfect.
btw I notice now as I get older my ability to discern with certainty the image behind me is greatly reduced. And I fail to see that people should lose the enjoyment of riding just because they age. I would respect any rider that recognizes his and others failings and rides accordingly.
I mean, 30 centimetres clearance of a rider, whose skill level you can't be sure of, while travelling at speed in traffic? It's a no brainer.
(A little annoyance - Those totally uncool old bells that give a rattling ring should be back in all the shops. Instead they mostly stock "cool", not "effective". They stock those little "ding" ones that you have to pull back two or three times to get a pretty chime that sounds about as alarming as tapping a champagne flute and only make me think it's happy hour.)
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:22 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby WonkyWheels » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:03 pm
ColinOldnCranky wrote:I still recall that when riding a bike, the better the check behind, then the longer your eyes are off the road in front. Further, it's not always easy to do it without a small wander to the side being checked. Thirdly as indicated earlier, cyclists, unlike cars, can hide right behind or to the other side quite effectively.
As a passing cyclist, it is emcumbant on you to be aware of these limitations and to treat the situation as the worst possible case.
Before all you "excellent" riders say everyone else should up the skills, you are likely denying your own occasional problem with these basic maneuvres. I mean, in traffic, how many thousands of times a year do you do these maneuvres. MANY. They will not always be perfect.
btw I notice now as I get older my ability to discern with certainty the image behind me is greatly reduced. And I fail to see that people should lose the enjoyment of riding just because they age. I would respect any rider that recognizes his and others failings and rides accordingly.
I mean, 30 centimetres clearance of a rider, whose skill level you can't be sure of, while travelling at speed in traffic? It's a no brainer.
(A little annoyance - Those totally uncool old bells that give a rattling ring should be back in all the shops. Instead they mostly stock "cool", not "effective". They stock those little "ding" ones that you have to pull back two or three times to get a pretty chime that sounds about as alarming as tapping a champagne flute and only make me think it's happy hour.)
Sorry but I don't buy that. It’s a poor excuse.
Head checking is a must. Period.
Motorcycle riders do it all the time and they are travelling at much high speeds in amongst the traffic.
If a bicycle rider changes lane or direction without head checking, that just like a car driver changing lanes without indicating or looking and that plain stupid.
In the OP’s situation. What happens if it was a car that flew by not another cyclist?
- ColinOldnCranky
- Posts: 6734
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:21 pm
Checking is not a certainly to work, as described in my post. And passers would be well advised to know that and to act accordingly. Self righteous and alleged superiority in certain skills does not excuse even a highly skilled rider from riding as if the world has only perfect riders riding in perfect circumstance at all times. That seemed to be the case in the original post on this thread.
Like motorists who think they are exceptional at handling a vehicle, too many riders THINK they are among the exceptional. Even if they are, others not so legendary will be riding with them, as is their right.
Yeah. Check. As best as you can in the moment. Try to not be in a situation where you may have to take evasive action (not always up to you though). But also assume that the bloke in front may not be so competent, may be distracted, may have to make an unplanned but hasty move due to circumstances, may wander 30cm. All those things and more.
And a bell is the easiest improvement to make. Though I expect within the next few years riders will be able to buy the iBell Tourer, download irritating ring tones and then drive the rest of us off the paths and road so we can drive to work in relative peace. Perish the thought, huh?
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Bell gripe
Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:31 pm
The only "ding" bell I have found effective is this one:ColinOldnCranky wrote:(A little annoyance - Those totally uncool old bells that give a rattling ring should be back in all the shops. Instead they mostly stock "cool", not "effective". They stock those little "ding" ones that you have to pull back two or three times to get a pretty chime that sounds about as alarming as tapping a champagne flute and only make me think it's happy hour.)
http://www.velo-orange.com/jabrsbe.html
It has quite a long and reasonably loud "ding" (especially for its size).
The most effective bell I've found is the "Ding Dong". Nothing louder in bells so far, but heavy.
http://www.moruyabicycles.com.au/conten ... _bell.html
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:22 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby WonkyWheels » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:49 pm
Shlt happens and no one is perfect. That’s why it's best to practice.
Practice doing quick headchecks without loosing your line or running into the back of someone or a parked car.
Practice your emergency stop.
Practice swerving to avoid obstacles. Just make sure you don't swerve into other riders or cars.
I think part of the problem is that people don't take the safety aspects of riding seriously.
Some people think they can just hop on a bike for the first time and ride it to the shops in traffic and it's all good.
It's a dangerous sport/recreation and should be treated as such.
I wouldn’t say a bell is a must but saying “passing†or similar is just proper etiquette.
In the OP’s situation. Both riders were in the wrong. I just don’t like how people are always quick to blame others.
- rearviewmirror
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:10 am
- Location: Williamstown, Victoria
- Contact:
Re: Bell gripe
Postby rearviewmirror » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:46 pm
-
- Posts: 5131
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby rkelsen » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:50 pm
You're kidding me? I hear at least 3 or 4 per day.rearviewmirror wrote:In my 7 months of commuting 5 days per week I've never heard anyone else ring a bell in any circumstance.
Bell schmell. I'm trying to figure out how to wire up and mount the airhorn from an old Fiat on my bike. Clear path anyone? But if I have to have a bell, I want one from a tram.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Bell gripe
Postby toolonglegs » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:04 pm
Everytime I called passing on the right, riders would do stupid things (espeically in mtb races!)..like pull right!...or speed up to jump on or just wobble on their merry way.These days (not that is much of an issue in my country lanes) I just blast past giving a wide berth of a couple of meters...saying hello as I am past.rkelsen wrote: Bell schmell. I'm trying to figure out how to wire up and mount the airhorn from an old Fiat on my bike. Clear path anyone? But if I have to have a bell, I want one from a tram.
And quite seriously when you are hammering into the wind you don't hear cars coming up behind you half the time...so before you change lines always head check properly...your safety is your responsibility whether you wear lycra or tweed.
-
- Posts: 3540
- Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: 3166
Re: Bell gripe
Postby kukamunga » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:50 pm
I have compared it to a more expensive BBB Easyfit Deluxe bell, and the BBB item aint half as good. Why would you make a bell out of brass and then paint it, dulling it's sound, and have a stainlees steel mounted striker that continually misaligns itself (I only bought it for my SSuperlite because it was small and white)
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Bell gripe
Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:37 pm
Because it doesn't need polishing like my Sound Bell (pic above).kukamunga wrote:Why would you make a bell out of brass and then paint it, dulling it's sound,...
- Mulger bill
- Super Mod
- Posts: 29060
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
- Location: Sunbury Vic
Re: Bell gripe
Postby Mulger bill » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:15 am
There was an electric device that got stuffed inside the bar and was activated by a pressure switch going around on the webz a while back, damned if I can remember anything about it except "Jeez that's clever". Anybody else have a clue?Missy24 wrote:When they design a bell that doesn't look like a bell and when they can make it small enough to fit on my bike so my handle bars don't look like a dash board from a flight simulator... Then I will put a bell in my bike, I don't care if it costs $50.00 to make it look pretty and neat, I don't like stuff on my bike
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
-
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 6:14 pm
Re: Bell gripe
Postby slik50 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:42 am
I notice quite oftn on my commute that many riders like to pass pedestrians on a shared path at 40km/h. I think it's quite simple if you want to pass someone (pedestrian or cyclist), slow down make some noise then say hello. Particularly if there is another hazard around that might make their movements unpredicatable.
A headcheck is always a good idea, but not very effective if the person going past is travelling more than twice your speed.
just my 2 cents.
Rob
- trailgumby
- Posts: 15469
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
- Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
- Contact:
Re: Bell gripe
Postby trailgumby » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:31 pm
I had a lot of trouble finding a bell that I could fit on the bar in an ergonomic position, while also keeping my controls in an ergonomic position. Too often, after I'd got the controls positioned right, the bell just wouldn't fit because the bar diameter was too fat at that point. (All my bikes have 31.8mm clamp diameter mtb riser bars)
Finally I cracked a wobbly and bought a handful of random different ones and tried them out sequentially until I got one that fit requirements and the bar.
The one on my commuter has a plastic backing/mount that holds water, unfortunately, so instead of a nice "PinGGG!" all I get in the wet is a "thup!"
Headchecks:
Changing line is a major safety problem, especially off road. The only way I can do a headcheck on the bike without my line drifting is by tilting my head down until my chin is resting on my shoulder. This seems to avoid the effort of twisting my head then feeding into handlebar inputs.
- casual_cyclist
- Posts: 7758
- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:41 am
- Location: Kewdale
Re: Bell gripe
Postby casual_cyclist » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:10 pm
-
- Posts: 320
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:13 pm
- Location: Cairns, Queensland
Re: Bell gripe
Postby Fred Nurk » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:33 pm
Twice now I've been overtaken by some lycra wearing tools that buzz me in the bike lane with very little room to spare. The first time I swerved left as I heard them just before they passed me, the second I had no warning at all, just a flash of lycra and some tool whizzing within centimetres of my bike. The only common trait I noticed was that they were wearing all the go-fast gear, and really didn't seem to care. At no stage was I attempting to merge into the lane, or change lanes, or any similar behaviour. Both events were within the last week.
I'm not really a fan of using a bell in such situations, its not normal in a car, and I don't see that its required for a pushbike. What I would expect though, and I'm guessing from my recent experiences is that its too much to ask, is that I'm given a reasonable berth when someone wants to overtake me. I can only assume that since the cars are in the very next lane going at about 80km/h, the pseudo-cyclists would rather chance knocking me over rather than brave the traffic.
As far as I'm concerned, bike lanes are really single lanes. If you want to ride two abreast, thats fine, but don't expect that every other cyclist will magically move over for you. Same with not overtaking within a lane just because it appears wide enough.
There is, though, a special place in hell for the idiots who ride scooters in the bike lane.
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:37 am
- Location: Balmain, NSW
Re: Bell gripe
Postby gavinr » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:11 pm
The main purpose is alerting pedestrians to your presence on a shared path, and I found every bell I tried just was just not loud enough. Particularly for those people walking and listening to their iPods (other mobile listening devices are available) at the same time. Don't people realise how dangerous that is? Haven't they heard about this accident?
But for those debating shouting vs bell ringing, this made me smile. It might need some modification to be of any use here.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.