smoking while commuting

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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby The Womble » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:44 pm

ZepinAtor wrote:I'm always smokin when I ride my bike.

My partner says it's coming from my bum though.

I never told anyone Snookms I promise. Now come here You average hunk of man meat you :wink:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby DrJay » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:24 pm

sogood wrote:Don't get up in arms over smokers. Smokers are good for the society and country as smoking induces incurable early deaths (of many forms). The end results are,
1) Less long term drain on health resources and costs.
2) Less time hanging around in retirement and drain on the pension.
3) Early transfer of wealth to beneficiaries.
4) Each packet of cig includes a nice tax overhead which is of benefit to us all.

So give smokers room when they want to express their democratic right to do all of above and more. :mrgreen:


C'mon, the medical and premature mortality and morbidity costs of smoking are about 3x the tax revenue of it.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby damhooligan » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:27 pm

Oxford wrote:on some paths in Brisbane it is illegal to smoke


Is it really ??
Why?

I think banning smoking in indoors areas makes sense,
but banning it for outdoor use doesn't make any sense to me at all..

And every cyclist I know doesn't smoke, so I think the people that do smoke and cycle are sooo low on numbers (i have not seen one in , so therefore I think they don't exist at all)
makes me think that 'mekore' is making it all up, i bet he doesn't even smoke.. :D
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:25 pm

DrJay wrote:
sogood wrote:Don't get up in arms over smokers. Smokers are good for the society and country as smoking induces incurable early deaths (of many forms). The end results are,
1) Less long term drain on health resources and costs.
2) Less time hanging around in retirement and drain on the pension.
3) Early transfer of wealth to beneficiaries.
4) Each packet of cig includes a nice tax overhead which is of benefit to us all.

So give smokers room when they want to express their democratic right to do all of above and more. :mrgreen:


C'mon, the medical and premature mortality and morbidity costs of smoking are about 3x the tax revenue of it.


But think of all the people who would be under or unemployed without smokers, like sales staff, street cleaners and doctors :wink:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby il padrone » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:19 am

Nicola Roxon (Health Minister) on Q&A last night

The tax revenues fron the tax on tobacco are $6billion. The health costs associated with tobacco-caused diseases (and that's ignoring other social & economic costs) are $30billion.


I don't see where the savings are :?
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby DrJay » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:01 pm

il padrone wrote:Nicola Roxon (Health Minister) on Q&A last night

The tax revenues fron the tax on tobacco are $6billion. The health costs associated with tobacco-caused diseases (and that's ignoring other social & economic costs) are $30billion.


I don't see where the savings are :?


That's the figure I was thinking about.

If we were to have a user pays system, then the current excise should be multiplied by 5. It's better to increase the excise than ban anyway, prohibition doesn't work on something widely used and previously legal (such as the experience with alcohol in the US).

Until we increase the excise (which we won't) we should feel free to deride smokers for their proportion of the net $24billion in annual tax spend they are costing us. ie, each smoker costs the taxpayer (24x10^9)/(5x10^6) or just under $5000 dollars each year in excess morbidity and mortality.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby sogood » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:28 pm

DrJay wrote:C'mon, the medical and premature mortality and morbidity costs of smoking are about 3x the tax revenue of it.

So here's the question, which the following two scenarios is more expensive (strict dollar terms) to the society?

1) Smoker and life long cigi tax contributor, early vascular disease/lung cancer/bowel cancer (any one is sufficient to terminate life) and treatment for 5 years from the age of 60 and dies.

2) Non-smoker, retires at 60, live on government pension for the next 20 years. Even though being a non-smoker, there'll still be inevitable miscellaneous age diseases (eg. Arthritis, hypertension, blood vessel/heart valve surgery to insertion of pacemaker, falls and fractures, pneumonia, skin cancer, hernia, arthritis/joint replacement, cataract surgery etc) requiring medical reviews and treatment. Then finally being inflicted by late age diseases eg cardiovascular disease, other cancers, dementia etc, requiring further 5 yrs of treatment/management, possibly high dependency nursing home care before end of life.

Of course, these are pure argument scenarios, without consideration for quality of life, spirit of man/woman issues etc. The scenarios may be different if scenario 2 was hit by a massive acute stroke or heart attack, yet again, that may also happen in scenario 1. :wink:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby Oxford » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:08 pm

you need to consider the contribution those in number 2 make to society in retirement as volunteers, or as child carers for grandchildren etc etc to and add back from what they are taking out.

also consider that with supposed advances in medical science, sick smokers are living longer (for better or worse). my father in law a 3 pack a day smoker for 50 years before he quit, lived "normally" for about 10 years after quitting (very sick but independent), then survived another 5 years on the end of a oxygen hose before eventually passing away.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby sogood » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:33 pm

Oxford wrote:you need to consider the contribution those in number 2 make to society in retirement as volunteers, or as child carers for grandchildren etc etc to and add back from what they are taking out.

Of course, this is how a civil society would value it. But who said bean counters are civil on their spreadsheet? :wink:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:33 pm

I vaguely remember a pro cyclist during the Lance era (about 2005, I think) who won a mountain stage and shortly afterwards collapsed when someone lit a cigarette near him and he copped a mouthful.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby fishwop » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:02 pm

m@ wrote:
Max wrote:Do you understand that I don't like smoking? If you want to fill your lungs with carcinogens, fine. Knock yourself out. But don't force it on me by puffing away whilst riding along, leaving a long, lingering trail of filth in your wake.

On the upside, at least it's easy to overtake the smoker and get into the clean air in front :mrgreen:


I admit I am not a champion squash player or anything, but I have been absolutely whooped by guys who would go outside and have a fag between sets, then come back and run you around the court again.

It's the exception rather than the rule, but smoking and fitness are not entirely mutually exclusive.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby mekore » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:12 pm

i'm very surprised about the replies, because i think the most dangerous thing about smoking while cycling is the burning ashes that sometimes flies. I am afraid that it may goes into ones eyes, and thats the only thing that stopped me from smoking while cycling. :shock:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby DavidS » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:45 pm

I'm a smoker and cyclist but I really can't see the point of smoking while riding. Would burn down the cigarette too fast.

As for banning smoking outside: it is banned indoors, if you ban it outdoors then don't be surprised when I smoke in the doorway.

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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby hannos » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:04 pm

mekore wrote:i'm very surprised about the replies, because i think the most dangerous thing about smoking while cycling is the burning ashes that sometimes flies. I am afraid that it may goes into ones eyes, and thats the only thing that stopped me from smoking while cycling. :shock:



I always struggled to get the damn thing lit. Lighters don't work very well when being buffeted by 30km/h wind...
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby GraemeL » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:33 pm

I was a heavy smoker for30 years, I haven't smoked for approx 12 months.

Why is there this hooha about smokers? Apparently smoking causes just about every disease known to man, if you are dumb enough to believe everything governments tell you.

Do you whinge and bitch about petrol/diesel fumes and demand that every car/truck/bus /train etc be banned and anything else that uses these fuels. No why not?

Why don't you whinge and bitch about industry? No why not? The air you breath every second of your life is killing you. Think about the chemicals that are being released into the air every second that YOU breathe.

Do you whinge and bitch about all the chemicals that are sprayed/injected into and onto your meat and vegetables, to make them bigger better and tastier. No why not?

Why Not, because you will never win, so it's easier for the hypocritical as**oles to blame the smoker for the end of the world.

Oh and don't get me started about idiots that drink alcohol and how much misery, death, damage etc that causes and costs society.


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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:12 pm

I think most people are missing the point, if a person is commuting by bike then at least part of the reason for that decision is the health benefits. So why keep smoking?
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby mekore » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:34 pm

ldrcycles wrote:I think most people are missing the point, if a person is commuting by bike then at least part of the reason for that decision is the health benefits. So why keep smoking?


even if cycling is harmfull to health, i would still ride everyday, just like how i smoke :wink:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby lunar_c » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:12 am

sogood wrote:Don't get up in arms over smokers. Smokers are good for the society and country as smoking induces incurable early deaths (of many forms). The end results are,
1) Less long term drain on health resources and costs.
2) Less time hanging around in retirement and drain on the pension.
3) Early transfer of wealth to beneficiaries.
4) Each packet of cig includes a nice tax overhead which is of benefit to us all.

So give smokers room when they want to express their democratic right to do all of above and more. :mrgreen:


As a registered nurse .. I'd argue to the contrary on the first two. Unfortunately modern medicine keeps these people alive after their first STEMI and just barely clinging to life after their second .. and if I see 15 patients in a shift in an emergency department with chest pain and shortness of breath, I reckon on at least 10-12 being smokers. They really do tie up our health system because of the comorbidities smoking entails that don't *quite* kill you but need medical management and support .. like hypertension, CHF, AF, COPD, diabetes, PVD, hyperlipidaemia etc!

And now I'm becoming a paediatric nurse .. the ammount of children with health problems (and not just respiratory conditions) who live in houses with smokers is frightening.

I really can't stress enough - smoking is BAD for you! And your kids, and us as a society...

end rant!
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby Huggies » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:51 pm

lethoso wrote:It's only acceptable if you're smoking a pipe.


Totally agree with this. :wink:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby deekrockingbeat » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:48 am

just wear some sunnies and the ash wouldnt get into your eyes. i say do whatever makes you feel comfortable but make sure those butts dont end up on the ground, but in the bin. happy riding and smoking.
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smoking while commuting

Postby Queestce » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:40 am

I have to agree with some of the previous comments. Seems kind of contradictory to smoke and cycle at the same time. It outweighs the health benefits in a way, plus if your cycling as it's cost effective... But I think it's understandable people have their vices. I occasionally smoke socially if I'm "out on the town", which I wish I didn't... But despite that, I still cannot stand the smell of cigarettes wafting into my path when I'm breathing heavily during a ride. I wish the govt would do everybody a favor and ban cigarettes, tax $$$ aside.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby trailgumby » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:46 pm

sogood wrote:
Oxford wrote:you need to consider the contribution those in number 2 make to society in retirement as volunteers, or as child carers for grandchildren etc etc to and add back from what they are taking out.

Of course, this is how a civil society would value it. But who said bean counters are civil on their spreadsheet? :wink:

Does not using swear words at the inconsiderate prats inflicting their carcinogens on others count? :mrgreen:
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby Sweeper59 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:47 pm

igstar wrote:The only reason I don't like seeing cyclists with cigarets is because i know that butts will end up on the road ......


I'm sure you can buy an ashtray attachment for your handlebars SOMEWHERE on the internet :D
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby Queestce » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:49 pm

GraemeL wrote:I was a heavy smoker for30 years, I haven't smoked for approx 12 months.

Why is there this hooha about smokers? Apparently smoking causes just about every disease known to man, if you are dumb enough to believe everything governments tell you.

Do you whinge and bitch about petrol/diesel fumes and demand that every car/truck/bus /train etc be banned and anything else that uses these fuels. No why not?

Why don't you whinge and bitch about industry? No why not? The air you breath every second of your life is killing you. Think about the chemicals that are being released into the air every second that YOU breathe.

Do you whinge and bitch about all the chemicals that are sprayed/injected into and onto your meat and vegetables, to make them bigger better and tastier. No why not?

Why Not, because you will never win, so it's easier for the hypocritical as**oles to blame the smoker for the end of the world.

Oh and don't get me started about idiots that drink alcohol and how much misery, death, damage etc that causes and costs society.

Graeme


Lol? That's almost incorrect enough to be a great trol...

Smoking causing disease isn't some government conspiracy :? It's medically documented proof based upon more than just a few (million...) cases... Aside from the direct diseases that stem from smoking, there are S***LOADS of conditions to which smoking can be a contributing factor, or at least drastically increase someone's likelihood of developing such conditions. I don't understand why in our current day and age anyone would ever need to point this out though...

People constantly bitch and moan about pollution from vehicles and industry - almost certainly more than they do about smoking. Where the hell do you think hybrid cars and solar power come from? Carbon taxes aren't just for shits and giggles... Cars and industry are a little more necessary in society than cigarettes are however :wink:

I'm not too sure about chemicals in food from other peoples perspectives, but I sure as hell watch what I eat for exactly that reason. I'm almost willing to bet the majority of healthy, active people (such as on a cycling forum) do the same. I look closely at what's in any product I buy for the first time - also, have you heard of ORGANIC FOODS... They aren't just an idea...

Your right on the money about alcohol. But hey, if people are stupid enough to abuse a poisonous substance that's their fault. As far as I'm concerned, people with a skerrick of self preservation might realise hangovers feel like crap for a reason and exercise decent judgement.

My favourite bit is "The air you breath every second of your life is killing you." Perhaps if you live inside a roll of asbestos fibres...

You believe this, yet you think that smoking causing a metric tonne of diseases is some govt led lie?...

All in all, I'm up for legalising every drug known to man - It's not going to make me any less healthy. Be a good population capper too. Smoking where it effects no-one is totally fine, I think everyone has a right do do whatever the hell they want - so long as it doesn't impeded on anyone else's lives. Smoking where others are subjected to it and perhaps don't want to be is in the same boat as an obese man running nude through the CBD - although the latter could at least be amusing.
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Re: smoking while commuting

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:14 pm

Have I mentioned that I do a bit of fire eating? And some of the fuel we ingest is DISGUSTING! And that smokey Diggers kero!!!!!! Erk!

Where does that put me on the pariah list?

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