Not a ticketable offence?????

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Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby loulou40 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:59 am

Hi,

On my commute home yesterday arvo (gorgeous day for it until) a red P plater allowed his mate to throw a juice popper at me. I know this happens to us all at some time or another, but I was ecstatic to be able to catch up to them at the next set of traffic lights!!!!! So, off I go, straight to the police station and they tell me nothing can be done because it wasn't the driver who threw it at me :roll:

I pushed a bit and the officer said he would attempt to have a talk to the driver and that would be it.

I don't want to have the kid put in gaol or anything, but a ticket for even just littering would have made me happier.

I wonder if I was a police person on a bike would it be the same result?

Any thoughts from anyone here?'

Linda
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by BNA » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:10 am

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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby rebilda » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:10 am

Not sure if this still applys, but, you used to be able to make a call to the EPA (Environmental Protection Authority) with the vehicle decription, Plate Nr, location and time. They used to also ask for the driver's descrition.
Throwing something out of the car window is an offence and a fine will be sent to the registered owner. If the object is glass, the fine is pretty steep. If it is a lit, cigarette butt, they get onto that too.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby im_no_pro » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:21 am

I would say a case of poorly worded from the officer as to why they couldnt. At a guess I would suggest the issue revolves around identification of the passenger and comes down to time v effort v likelihood i.e. their chances are slim to none of a positive ID. If you want to get them a tap on the shoulder about littering then go to the right place e.g. if you are in Vic then it would be the EPA. They wont get a ticket issued but the owner of the vehicle will get a gentle nudge in the mail.

IMHO, as much as I agree it would be nice for them to get a tap on the shoulder, cops have more important things to do. If they were throwing stubbies OTOH, then go get em for sure.

edit: upon closer inspection it would seem they do issue infringement notices now. Never used to be the case. Surprises me a little that you can just fill in a form and someone gets a fine...
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby find_bruce » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:23 am

Hi Linda, don't you just love the Police who fail to take any action despite their obligations to do so. Am I right in thinking you are in NSW ?

Throwing an object from a vehicle is not contrary to any road rule. The driver however is required to stop the vehicle & pick the object up, regardless of whether it was the driver or passenger who threw it - road rule 293. A failure by the driver to do so carries an "on the spot" fine of $405. Yep littering is treated seriously in NSW :shock:

Throwing an object AT a person however is in a different category altogether - it is called assault. I would recommend calling the Police Assistance line 131444 and saying you were the victim of an assault, reported it to Police & the officer had failed to do anything about it - ie pursue both the assault and a complaint about the Police officer's conduct.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby macca33 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:33 am

That is garbage. Besides the litter / aggravated litter offence - which are 'ticketable' offences, there is also the offence of 'Discharge Missile' in Victoria (Section 7, Summary Offences Act, 1966) - if the juice popper was full, then this offence would be entirely applicable.

Are you in Vic, or elsewhere?
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby loulou40 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:02 pm

Thanks for responses. I am in NSW. I will try those couple of suggestions ie EPA and assistance line. Will let you know.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby gretaboy » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:11 pm

find_bruce wrote: I would recommend calling the Police Assistance line 131444 and saying you were the victim of an assault


The Police assistance line will say they cant help you but would you like a car crew to come and see you, or you can go into a police station and make a complaint. How do I know??

I did exactly this myself last night...and that was the response I got. However, I said I would like a car crew to attend my work the next day to see me. That car crew were nice and early at my work :) They took me seriously, I also had gopro footage to back my claim up. Without footage it really comes down to your word against theirs. If they don't admit to it, not much the Police can do. It is one of the reasons why I run a rear facing go pro

I have made a complaint of assualt in my case, and am willing to go to court over it.

Worse comes to worse...at least a group of young P platers will know that cyclists are recording, which may in turn stop them from doing it again in the future
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:23 pm

gretaboy wrote:Worse comes to worse...at least a group of young P platers will know that cyclists are recording, which may in turn stop them from doing it again in the future


+1 (and not just stop them from throwing things either)
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:10 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
gretaboy wrote:Worse comes to worse...at least a group of young P platers will know that cyclists are recording, which may in turn stop them from doing it again in the future


+1 (and not just stop them from throwing things either)


+2.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:17 pm

find_bruce wrote:Hi Linda, don't you just love the Police who fail to take any action despite their obligations to do so. Am I right in thinking you are in NSW ?

Throwing an object from a vehicle is not contrary to any road rule. The driver however is required to stop the vehicle & pick the object up, regardless of whether it was the driver or passenger who threw it - road rule 293. A failure by the driver to do so carries an "on the spot" fine of $405. Yep littering is treated seriously in NSW :shock:

Throwing an object AT a person however is in a different category altogether - it is called assault. I would recommend calling the Police Assistance line 131444 and saying you were the victim of an assault, reported it to Police & the officer had failed to do anything about it - ie pursue both the assault and a complaint about the Police officer's conduct.

I like your approach Bruce. Throwing stuff at anyone on the road should be taken seriously and it doesn't take much effort to find a charge that is at least effective even if it is not directly related to the main issue. Just as you have done.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby outnabike » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:47 am

Hi loulou40,
I say take a letter to the Commissioner of police in your state.
I had no action in a matter by three different constables,including senior personnel, and one even told me "we can't do anything because we didn't see it" And I even had it on video!
Once it hit the commissioners staff, magically thing happened.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby Xplora » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:48 pm

I know someone who was pinged under the EPA offence - it's a really nasty offence to be charged with, because it's too serious to just plead guilty and walk away with a 100 dollar fine from. I think he was given a fine for 2000 bucks? Either way, it's a kitchen sink coming at the driver. Worthwhile to chase it up.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby RobertFrith » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:44 pm

I had a similar incident a few years ago, Friday late, 4 kids in a cage, one threw something at me. 1 km down the road I reported it at the cop shop. Nothin' doin' unless I was prepared to follow through on an assault charge.... anyway, another k sees me home and shortly after getting in the door I got a call from a policewoman who suggested reporting them as litterbugs, for which they get fined.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby gretaboy » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:15 am

The link for NSW is http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/mvreporting/index.htm

I have just reported my incident from the other day....and I will now report every incident I record. It is a very easy process.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby g-boaf » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:33 pm

gretaboy wrote:The link for NSW is http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/mvreporting/index.htm

I have just reported my incident from the other day....and I will now report every incident I record. It is a very easy process.


And they will follow it up too. Believe me on that. Some of them were my old colleagues - nicest bunch of people I ever had the pleasure of working with.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby wombatK » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:46 pm

It is more than a ticketable offence - in fact a criminal act in NSW
NSW Crimes Act Sect 49A
Throwing rocks and other objects at vehicles and vessels
49A Throwing rocks and other objects at vehicles and vessels

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) the person intentionally throws an object at, or drops an object on or towards, a vehicle or vessel that is on any road, railway or navigable waters, and
(b) there is a person in the vehicle or vessel, and
(c) the conduct risks the safety of any person.
Maximum penalty: Imprisonment for 5 years.
(2) This section extends to a vehicle or vessel that is stationary at the time that the object is thrown or dropped.
(3) In the prosecution of an offence under this section, it is not necessary to prove:
(a) that the accused was aware that his or her conduct risked the safety of any person, or
(b) that the object made contact with the vehicle or vessel.
(4) In this section:

"road" means a road or road related area within the meaning of section 4 (1) of the Road Transport Act 2013 .

"throw" includes propel.

"vehicle" includes:
(a) a motor vehicle, and
(b) a train or tram, and
(c) a bicycle, and...

So the police should have investigated, and you ought to be complaining to the police commissioners office
about being so seriously misled.

This section was added to the crimes act after someone was killed near Wollongong by a drug-addled
idiot who was throwing rocks at cars from the top of a freeway cutting. But it clearly covers your
case too - because it can be just as lethal. 250 g of popper juice could kill someone when
propelled at 40 km/h - and even an empty one would look lethal and could cause you to react
and fall into the path of other vehicles etc.,.

It may be tricky to prove the object was intentionally thrown from the vehicle, unless the half-wit that did
it was half-witted and ignorant enough to admit it (or his driver friend dobs). Sometimes people are that dumb. And, in any case,
the educational benefit that acts have consequences might still get through when police knock on doors.

Next obstacle could be that the person that did it may be a juvenile, and escape prosecution via the young
offenders act. But at least they'd get a shake up. And again, they'll hopefully be educated about what
might be the outcome should they continue behaving like that as an adult.

Don't just pursue it through the EPA - load both barrels of the shotgun and complain to the Police
Commissioner about being misled and the failure of your local police to investigate a criminal act
appropriately.

Cheers

WombatK

PS I am not a lawyer, and the use of intentionally in the act may not be as problematic as I've
suggested - it might only be to allow no criminality where the object falls or is thrown
by some accidental means (e.g. slipped from your hands while passing it to someone in the
car because the car hit a bump).
Last edited by wombatK on Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby rebilda » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:58 pm

wombatK wrote:- because it can be just as lethal. 250 g of popper juice could kill someone when
propelled at 40 km/h - and even an empty one would look lethal and could cause you to react
and fall into the path of other vehicles etc.,.
.


True!

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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby myforwik » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:38 pm

Whats new... the police was telling you technically the truth, while lieing through his teeth.

Its not a ticketable offence - its a criminal act.

Unless there is evidence, more than just your word, then unfortunately its not worth them taking to court.
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:30 pm

loulou40, a couple of months has passed. Has anything come of your report? First response? Charge raise (what?), gone to court?
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Re: Not a ticketable offence?????

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Didn't see this thread the first time around.

You could just go back to the station, walk up to the officer, and throw a popper at him. Just see if there's nothing he can do about it then...

Edit: Take lube with you.
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