A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
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A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:23 am
Living overseas as my partner is on a work contract for the next while and I find myself with some time on my hands. Always been interested in living a less car-centric lifestyle, and love riding bikes... so it wasn't long before I started looking at Cargo bikes, Particularly the 2 wheel bakefits/long john style ones. No kids yet but potentially in the future, and based in Canberra so have lots of great infrastructure to make bike riding a feasible alternative to car use.
Issue is that they are damn expensive in Australia, and non existent in Laos! The few that I have seen/ridden in Oz depart so far from regular bike riding experience (mainly weird geometry) that they are actually not enjoyable machines to use. I can't remember the model of the one I borrowed from my brother's neighbor in Newcastle but the super low bottom bracket made pedal strikes a significant issue when turning on a street with a gentle camber and the steering just seemed 'off'.
The goal at the outset of this project was to make an affordable 2 wheel cargo bike using limited resources that both I and my partner can ride (she is a shorty at 155cm or so), maintain fun bike riding geometry, space for 2/3 kids if needed, wide tyre capability for gravel/dirt touring/commuting, Hydro Disc brakes, Sturdy kickstand, bi-partable (for on car/international air travel) while maintaining a sensible weight. Also in the scheme of things is the option of mounting a mid drive electric conversion kit (the Bafang 8fun 750W mid-drive unit is the leading contender).
Options for donor bikes were limited in town, but stumbled on a small size mid 90s Trek Mountian Trek 850 for $80. Full rigid with 4130 Cromo tubing. Good standover height for my partner. I have to admit I have a soft spot for this model of bike (I rode a medium sized one across Asia for 13,000km in 9 months a few years ago.
Donor bike sorted I had to find new steel to make the rest of the machine! No Cromo available here...no cold drawn tubing... had to settle for regular seam welded construction steel 1.6/2.0mm wall thickness or the project would never get off the ground.
Design wise I was taking inspiration from Bullit bikes, CETMA cargo bikes, Metrofeits, and kind of synthesized the elements I liked. I liked the Cetma bi-partable couplers and vertical steerer tubes that maximized cargo space. However because I needed this to be a simple frame build, my cargo frame design varied a bit from the regular manufacturers. My central cargo pole is the main load bearing element, and the cargo bay is just for stabilizing the load. So my main cargo boom is chunky, with the rest being lighter 22mm gal steel tubing. Both the Bulit and the CETMA use smaller gauge tubing but make the cargo hold a structural element of the front end of the bike.
I wanted to preserve the trad MTB handing so took some good measurements of the bike before working on it. I made a Jig out of left over 18mm ply and make spacers that would hold the bike and maintain the rear axle-BB drop/ seat tube angle. After stripping all the paint off it was time to get cutting. First to go was the headtube, then downtube. Cargo boom was shaped to fit the bottom bracket, seat tube junction, then top tube mitered to fit new vertical steerer. Steerer punched through cargo boom.
Things ground to a halt as I couldn't find a 20" BMX style bike to use for the front end. Luckily my parents decided to come visit at Christmas so used them as parts mules to bring over a cheap BMX fork, rim, Hydro brakes and a few other goodies. Pretty soon the front end was all mitered up and ready for welding.
After all the work getting to this point I was pretty nervous about the welding step. Most of the welding I have seen here has been pretty gnarly stick welding done by kids in flip flops with no eye protection. Luckily I found a Vietnamese run place that has a few tig machines that make fancy stainless steel gates for the nuvo-riche of Vientiane. It took a while for them to warm to the idea of doing such a small project but they eventually got on board.
I made disc brake tabs out of some 4mm plate steel and made a rear brace to help spread braking load across the chain stays and seat stays. The front fork is a beefy bmx one so no extra re-enforcement was used for the disc brakes.
Turns out the trickiest part of the whole build was getting the Geometry right for the steerer rod, and figuring out the kickstand.
Bike is currently completely functional with 3x7 gearing, 2x shimano Hydro disc brakes, and flat cargo bed. Last things to do are to hack the frame in two and install my bi-partable couplers, weld on some steel tabs for ocky straps/kayak straps. Actually have some very nice instrument case/pelican case latches I picked up in Thailand for cheap that will make the carbo box easily/quickly removable. That is one innovation I think I am bringing to the current crop of machines which i'm pretty excited about (actually an intersection of two of my hobbies- Bikes and Sound Systems!).
Next step is quick release cargo box using the aforementioned Music case straps, welding on the bipartable couplers and then cleaning it all up for a nice coat of paint! Currently liking the idea of a really dark Jaguar green with subtle gold fleck- like you see on some guitars...
Hope you like it! Actually not that hard to do if you have a little time on your hands. Could be easily done using 2nd hand parts in Australia. You can get a pretty good result and not have to fork out the 4k for one of the brand name ones.
Reason: Restore photo links
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:06 pm
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby koshari » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:27 pm
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby find_bruce » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:50 pm
What are you going to use for the "bi-partable couplers" ?
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:01 am
@find_bruce- thanks for the kind words. Yes i got a bit weight weenie on my bike while i was waiting for my 20" parts to arrive- not sure how much of a difference it made in the end but at least i felt like I was being productive at the time! My very high tech 'bipartable couplers' are just 4x 4mm steel plates drilled out for some high tensile SS bolts. They will be welded on to the top tube and cargo tube just on the rider side of the steerer tube. Going to use those nice little bullet head allen head nuts traditionally used for holding brake pads in place with some stainless steel bolts to hold it all together.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby koshari » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:51 am
Ahh thanks, nice description.mlavis wrote:(AT) Koshari- the steerer is extended to run the whole length of the head tube. There is a steel plate welded to the bottom of the steerer (pic no. 5). A steering rod is attached to that plate which acts as a crank arm. When you turn the handlebars, the crank arm also turns, pushing a rod which reaches up and around the front wheel- attaching to the fork leg. The steering rod has to have a dog leg bent into the front of it (which allows for clearance of the front wheel when the bike is in a hard left steering lock). The steering rod attaches to a tab welded on the front fork using a heim joint bearing. This is a pretty standard config for cargo bikes so you could look up images for either Bullit or CETMA cargo bikes and see something similar. Some European ones use nifty cable/chain actuated mechanisms, bit that was going to be too tricky for me to fabricate.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby P!N20 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:55 am
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby bychosis » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:57 am
One question: How well is your stand going to work on uneven surfaces? eg if there is a bump in the middle.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:03 pm
@PIN20- Completing this project in Laos has been a bit of a labor of love. Things that are dead simple in Oz become huge ordeals to figure out over here- so it's unlikely i'd be selling bikes any time soon. That being said, once I do return to Australia I am tossing up the idea of taking a TIG course so I could make these up in my spare time and sell them to friends and family (who all seem to be having kids at the moment!). I'd probably try to keep a high recycled bicycle content in them to keep every bike original and to keep costs down. Anyway- long time away but if the economics of unit value-VS value of my minimal spare time works out you may seem them out on the streets of Canberra in the future.
Today's job is to start work on the Cargo box V1. Features will include small storage area with elastic netting on rear of box for regularly accessed items (rain jacket, bike lock, sunscreen, reusable shopping bags, frisbee). Going to experiment with 8mm ply with Aluminium right angle reinforcement in the corners and a perimeter of double thickness ply on the top for stiffness.
Mark
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:32 pm
Mark
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby Cardy George » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:03 pm
Just need a welder and a grinder and I'm away.
I showed her yours with the cargo box and she loved it.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:57 pm
Got the box all sanded and sealed. Just a few more small welding jobs to be done on the frame before I can get the frame sand blasted and painted!
Reason: Restore photo links
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby Mugglechops » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:17 pm
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:28 pm
http://canberrapassivesolarhouse.weebly ... style.html
Cheers,
mark
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby Bunged Knee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:57 pm
You can override it by editing your posts by adding " ~original " in after the "png" in the strings, as mentioned in "Do NOT use Rustedbucket " thread.
See what I`ve done one for you and you will be able to restore it back after you had previewed it and then submitted to make it come back.
ps, find_bruce had fixed it.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby find_bruce » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:06 pm
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby ldrcycles » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 pm
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:13 am
Happy pedalling!
Mark
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:09 pm
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:29 pm
Can you please edit the image name as it got the double "~original " , just remove the one so it had the single "~original " and the image name will get back to picture.
As you`ve got got 5 pics but only 4 pics are shown. it`s the 3rd pic that needed to be edited.
ps, It would be better to stay away from Photoborked and use other one like I always use this http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... 1#p1412791 without the need of hassle.
You can do it with or without account, just copy from your photo gallery.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby pi11wizard » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:58 pm
Just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration. I was quietly coveting a cargo bike online one evening, but horrified by the retail prices. I couldn't be sure i would use it enough to pay big $$, when inspiration hit to google "DIY cargo bike". Your thread made it look achievable and a couple of weeks later, I kicked off on my own bike. It's still a work in progress, but wouldn't have happened at all without your thread.
I've lost track of the number of hours i have in it so far - I think i lost about 7 hours today just tinkering on a stand and sorting the deck (which i still didn't finish). For anyone thinking about taking on a project like this, be prepared to regularly zone out of the world around you and go to your happy place where you think about cable routing, head tube angles and steering geometry. For me it is in the shower, while the Mrs is watching MAFS, driving to work, long haul flights etc. It's addictive. Have a crack - kerbside rubbish collections are a gold mine (the origins of the donor frame) because Mlavis is onto a winner here.
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby mlavis » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:10 am
Mark
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby pi11wizard » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:07 pm
I ended up blogging about it to try to put together a few thoughts for anyone else who was doing research and making plans though be warned- it's a very long read
Anyway, here is the current state of progress:
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Re: A new DIY cargo bike on the cheap.
Postby twowheels » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:32 pm
Neat solution in your blog to mark for notching the tube birdsmouths, I'll have to remember that. I thought they were bamboo skewers when I saw the photo, which may be a quicker way. Edit, more accurate would be old spokes.pi11wizard wrote:blog - it's a very long read
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