Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:05 pm

SeditionTrial wrote:Good that you are taking things slowly with your running. I am also just starting out in triathlon, and i think i made the common beginner's mistake of too much running too early. Build it slowly, and you might not get injured...

I am fortunate that I am almost a year out, so I can afford to start off slow and give myself enough recovery time.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:07 pm

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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:07 pm

Changes for this week:

drink more water
no coffee
apples instead of muffins ;-)
more sleep

Swimming week

I have been struggling with my swimming:

* feeling unbalanced in the water like my legs are dragging along the bottom of the pool like anchors
* thrashing about and feeling like I am fighting the water without making much progress
* getting completely out of breath within 25 metres due to poor breathing techniques

I am really comfortable swimming under water and swimming breaststroke, backstroke or side stroke. It just seems that whenever I start swimming freestyle I abandon my sense of safety and comfort that I naturally have doing everything else. I begin to get that sinking feeling and start to struggle. The more uncomfortable I feel, the more I fight the water.

I have been reading a book called Total Immersion and watching the videos of the drills on the internet. The TI system is big on promises: balanced energy efficient "effortless" swimming. I started reading the book and it immediately attracted me for these reasons:
* the first few drills are about balance which I find appealing because I do not feel balanced when doing freestyle
* the next few drills are about learning to shift balance and regain balance after a shift (like a roller skater skating). I can skate well and can really relate to what they are saying about shifting and regaining balance. I don't feel like that at all right now when I am swimming freestyle. I feel off balance all the time.
* the next few drills are about long effective strokes which don't churn up the water and being streamlined which appeals to me because my strokes make a lot of bubbles and don't feel at all effective and I am certainly not streamlined while swimming.
* the final drills are putting together all the other drills to develop an effective stroke. The TI swimmers swim with a real rhythm which I have been missing in my strokes. I can see the similarities with skating. It's almost like they are skating through the water.

I think this should be a link to a bloke swimming freestyle TI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4

So impressive.

So this week I will work through the drills and see if I can find some balance in the water :D
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby ClownBoy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:05 pm

Seriously dude - find a swim squad.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:12 pm

ClownBoy wrote:Seriously dude - find a swim squad.

+1
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:28 pm

Missy24 wrote:
ClownBoy wrote:Seriously dude - find a swim squad.

+1

Is a swim squad swimming lessons? Coz I can't swim. I can get adult lessons which take 10 weeks. Don't really want to wait 10 weeks until I can swim.

I have a swim squad for stroke correction once I have learned how to swim http://cityofperthswimmingclub.org.au/?page_id=26. Until then, there is nothing to correct, just point and laugh :oops:
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:37 pm

You wont learn how to swim properly by teaching yourself, you can't critique yourself, unless you have a video camera you can't do it alone.

Have you asked how they run their adult lessons? I went and asked, I was watching a guy in the pool and was impressed with his stroke and I asked him how he learnt and he said, "adult swim classes."

I went and said I only want to learn free style, because I know the other strokes well enough, the teacher didn't have a problem with it, 4 weeks later I was in stroke correction.

Steps...

Swimming lessons
Stroke Correction
Squad
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby ClownBoy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:39 pm

check out a couple of pools, call to find out when their squad is and go visit. Interview the coach and pick the right place.

At my place, Dean (the head coach) personally coaches some guys who represent Australia. So very elite. However he has an assistant coach (Tim) and together they have a number of squads at the pool catering to kids, elite and non-elite. Training covers about 4 hours per day for some of them.

Then Tim works with a part time coach to run the Masters squad as well. Don't be nervous - Masters is just what they call the adult squad.

We have a couple of Ironmen, guys who swim well under 2min per 100m, people like myself at or just behind 2 min\km plus some beginners. My estimate (not a formal rule) is you do need to be able to swim 100m or so but it doesn't matter how slow. They will cover drills, technique work plus some distance work (and the slower guys get to put on their fins after a few laps so they can practice swimming a bit faster).

So you have to interview them but the good squads will take you from able to swim short distances to swimming properly with a proper stroke.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:40 pm

Also right now, your teaching yourself bad habbits, which you will have to unlearn
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:02 pm

ClownBoy wrote:check out a couple of pools, call to find out when their squad is and go visit. Interview the coach and pick the right place.

At my place, Dean (the head coach) personally coaches some guys who represent Australia. So very elite. However he has an assistant coach (Tim) and together they have a number of squads at the pool catering to kids, elite and non-elite. Training covers about 4 hours per day for some of them.

Then Tim works with a part time coach to run the Masters squad as well. Don't be nervous - Masters is just what they call the adult squad.

We have a couple of Ironmen, guys who swim well under 2min per 100m, people like myself at or just behind 2 min\km plus some beginners. My estimate (not a formal rule) is you do need to be able to swim 100m or so but it doesn't matter how slow. They will cover drills, technique work plus some distance work (and the slower guys get to put on their fins after a few laps so they can practice swimming a bit faster).

So you have to interview them but the good squads will take you from able to swim short distances to swimming properly with a proper stroke.

I can swim 25 metres (of freestyle) without stopping so I am nowhere near 100 metres yet. Distance is not the point really because my 25 metres is very poor form and my breathing is all wrong. I want to see some significant improvements in my form and breathing before I go anywhere near a squad.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby ClownBoy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:08 pm

Well as Missy said - you will find it hard to do it on your own.

I went there and I did that.

I could do 25m without stopping but when I went for 50m I would often touch down about 35m or so.

I got myself up to being ablt to do 1.5-2km by myself but it was taking almost 3m per km.

The key for me (ify ou insist on doing it yourself) was to buy a pool buoy. You hold it between your legs to keep your back half afloat then you swim with your upper body. I would swim 100-200m by myself (in 25m lots) then do as far as I could with the pool buoy. Because it is a flotation device I got up to 500m using it very quickly.

It only took 2 weeks to get to a point where I did 500m without then 500m with. Then 1km without and 500m with. you can imagine the rest. Very handy device. Costs $20 or something.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:13 pm

Missy24 wrote:You wont learn how to swim properly by teaching yourself, you can't critique yourself, unless you have a video camera you can't do it alone.

Have you asked how they run their adult lessons? I went and asked, I was watching a guy in the pool and was impressed with his stroke and I asked him how he learnt and he said, "adult swim classes."

I went and said I only want to learn free style, because I know the other strokes well enough, the teacher didn't have a problem with it, 4 weeks later I was in stroke correction.

Steps...

Swimming lessons
Stroke Correction
Squad

Video camera is already organised and I won't be alone :wink:

My local swimming lessons are 45 mins a week for 10 weeks. To me, that is a joke! I need a lot more pool time than that. I will see if I can get a video tonight of my swimming because I won't be swimming again after that until I have mastered some basic skills.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:20 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
Missy24 wrote:You wont learn how to swim properly by teaching yourself, you can't critique yourself, unless you have a video camera you can't do it alone.

Have you asked how they run their adult lessons? I went and asked, I was watching a guy in the pool and was impressed with his stroke and I asked him how he learnt and he said, "adult swim classes."

I went and said I only want to learn free style, because I know the other strokes well enough, the teacher didn't have a problem with it, 4 weeks later I was in stroke correction.

Steps...

Swimming lessons
Stroke Correction
Squad

Video camera is already organised and I won't be alone :wink:

My local swimming lessons are 45 mins a week for 10 weeks. To me, that is a joke! I need a lot more pool time than that. I will see if I can get a video tonight of my swimming because I won't be swimming again after that until I have mastered some basic skills.

The whole idea of the lessons is for you to take something away from the class and practise over the week and then you go back to another class and you improve something else that isn't right.

For the record, from my own personal experience, I was in lessons for 4 weeks, I practised about 5 days a week at the pool, quality not quantity because I went to the lessons and I took what the teacher said and practised, my lessons where 30minutes once a week.

CC, I consider you a good friend but you don't seem to listen on this one, good luck with it.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby ClownBoy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:21 pm

Check out the pool buoy.

And don't forget - 10 45 minute classes would not be your only swimming. General ruyle I follow is 1-2 sessions per week is maintenance. 3-4 sessions is moderate improvement. 4+ sessions is cramming.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:26 pm

4+ Sessions is being stubborn
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby ClownBoy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:14 pm

Missy24 wrote:4+ Sessions is being stubborn


I do stubborn well. Currently I swim Monday lunch, Tuesday PM (squad), Wednesday am, Thursday PM (squad), Friday lunch and occasionally do one on the weekend.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:15 pm

Missy24 wrote:You wont learn how to swim properly by teaching yourself, you can't critique yourself, unless you have a video camera you can't do it alone.

Have you asked how they run their adult lessons? I went and asked, I was watching a guy in the pool and was impressed with his stroke and I asked him how he learnt and he said, "adult swim classes."

I went and said I only want to learn free style, because I know the other strokes well enough, the teacher didn't have a problem with it, 4 weeks later I was in stroke correction.

Steps...

Swimming lessons
Stroke Correction
Squad

Who did your stroke correction? Was that part of the swimming lessons or part of the squad?
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:22 pm

Stroke correction over my way is different to sqaud, like I said... steps

Swim class first

Stroke Correction (I spoke to the guy in this and he said his aim was to get people swimming 1500 metres without stopping... didn't matter how fast or slow, just with good stroke... )

Squad (time to learn about drills, you do drills in correction but drills in squad are a LOT harder!)
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:45 pm

Missy24 wrote:Stroke correction over my way is different to sqaud, like I said... steps

Swim class first

Stroke Correction (I spoke to the guy in this and he said his aim was to get people swimming 1500 metres without stopping... didn't matter how fast or slow, just with good stroke... )

Squad (time to learn about drills, you do drills in correction but drills in squad are a LOT harder!)

Do you have to take a lot of stuff to your squad? My local squad requires the following:

EQUIPMENT REQUIRED SENIOR SQUAD

* 2 sets goggles
* 1 swimming cap
* 1 set of flippers
* 1 set of hand paddles
* 1 pull buoy
* 1 freestyle swimmers snorkel
* 1 net bag for storage of equipment
* 1 water bottle

Aquajets swimming caps are available for purchase from the coaches.

Seems like a lot of stuff to me.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:51 pm

No, I take myself, my goggles and these thingies to keep my hands and arms in the right place and I take my flippers for a warm up... thats it
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:10 pm

Missy24 wrote:No, I take myself, my goggles and these thingies to keep my hands and arms in the right place and I take my flippers for a warm up... thats it

Thought so. I will check with the other squad. They seem much nicer anyway :D
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:20 pm

Speaking of seeking professional help, the West Australian Marathon Club (who run events from 3km to 100km :shock:) have novice runners sessions every Wednesday. They welcome runners of any age, speed and ability. I will definitely go along to see what they have to offer and to get some advice from the coach. Later on, they have interval sessions every Tuesday with a qualified coach. Membership is only $35 a year so I will probably join up. It looks like they have some very experienced coaches attached to the club. First session on Wednesday the 28th.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby ClownBoy » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:31 am

The run group sounds good.

The swim squad with that long list of gear sound like tossers.

You didn't comment on it but did you see my advice about the pool buoy??
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby Missy24 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:04 am

casual_cyclist wrote:Speaking of seeking professional help, the West Australian Marathon Club (who run events from 3km to 100km :shock:) have novice runners sessions every Wednesday. They welcome runners of any age, speed and ability. I will definitely go along to see what they have to offer and to get some advice from the coach. Later on, they have interval sessions every Tuesday with a qualified coach. Membership is only $35 a year so I will probably join up. It looks like they have some very experienced coaches attached to the club. First session on Wednesday the 28th.

Some of our members on here (BNA) run 200km+, we even have nationaly ranked ultra marathon runner on these forums (well her husband is on the forums) who also happens to be a bronze medalist from this years world championships.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:58 am

ClownBoy wrote:The run group sounds good.

The swim squad with that long list of gear sound like tossers.

You didn't comment on it but did you see my advice about the pool buoy??

Sure did! I checked them out at my local sports shops. They are pretty cheap. There are quite a few kinds so I will wait 'til squad where I can get advice from my coach.

I have found a squad with a much nicer coach. I have already emailed and arranged to attend next week. The coach will give me professional advice on whether I need swimming lessons, stroke correction or squad and advise on any equipment that I need.
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Re: Training for the Busselton Half Ironman next year

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:59 am

Missy24 wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:Speaking of seeking professional help, the West Australian Marathon Club (who run events from 3km to 100km :shock:) have novice runners sessions every Wednesday. They welcome runners of any age, speed and ability. I will definitely go along to see what they have to offer and to get some advice from the coach. Later on, they have interval sessions every Tuesday with a qualified coach. Membership is only $35 a year so I will probably join up. It looks like they have some very experienced coaches attached to the club. First session on Wednesday the 28th.

Some of our members on here (BNA) run 200km+, we even have nationaly ranked ultra marathon runner on these forums (well her husband is on the forums) who also happens to be a bronze medalist from this years world championships.

200km+ is insane! Right now I would be happy to run 5!
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