training for LeTape and need some help

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g-boaf
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby g-boaf » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:29 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:With this training and your low body weight I think you’ll do fine.

With the wobbles on your descent try descending out of the saddle with your hands in the drops.
Far more control and improved stability. Keep your legs and arms slightly bent to absorb any shock. Try to complete your braking before entering corners.



This is good advice. Not totally out of the saddle, but just a little bit. If you've already done a lot of riding in previous days, you'll probably be doing that out of the saddle thing for other reasons. :oops:

Always look through the corners if you aren't doing so already, that will help your descending a lot. If you are only looking just at what is immediately ahead of you, it's disorientating. And hands on the drops is not only getting your weight lower down (so you'll be more steady), it is also much safer on bumpy descents - on the hoods your hands can be knocked off the bars by a big bump. It's also a lot more comfortable, especially if you've got 20km of descent and a lot of big braking for corners.

The tip above on knees against the top tube is also good. I suspect some bikes are worse for these wobbles than others from my experiences.

To the OP directly, look at it also from another way, you had this happen now, not at L'Etape, you can do more descending and get more comfortable with it and find your way around this hurdle. You don't have to be a hero on the descents, just get down them safely. The more you do it, the more natural it will be. Good luck.

Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:03 pm

Hi again

have been practicing the descent tips and i can feel an improvement in handling and my confidence, so thanks for the tips

im hoping to get a bit of advice on punctures:
Went for a long ride with some mates on sat, and all 3 of us picked up punctures at different points along the way. We're all running tubeless and have fairly good condition tires (have only done over 1000km on my new bike) so it seems odd - must have run over some debris

Mine was the worst and wouldnt reseal so had to put a tube in, whilst one of my mates punctures kept popping the whole ride but it did reseal each time.

1: would you repair or replace the rubber ?
2: how effective are emergency patches to cover larger holes (just to get you home), rather than putting in a tube
3: can you just put a normal puncture patch on the inside of the tire to cover the large puncture ?

march83
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby march83 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:56 pm

Take my advice with a grain of salt because although I've been running MTB tubeless for ~10 years, I've only recently converted to tubeless on my road bike.

1. I wouldn't want to start an event that cost a few hundred dollars to enter and has been the focus of my training on equipment that I have any doubts over. I'd be running the freshest rubber possible and I'd save the damaged tyre for training after l'etape. For reference, it's 3.5 weeks till the ride, I've got a brand new set of Veloflex 23 clinchers and another set of Hutchinson Fusion 5 TLR 25 tubeless tyres ready to go. I haven't decided which to run, probably the matter, but I won't fit them till ~1 week out.

2. I would have used a bung / salami / bacon or whatever you want to call them to fill a hole that wouldn't self seal. If that failed I would put a tube in, but I haven't yet had a puncture that couldn't be healed one way or another. Once a bung has sealed a tyre I'm happy to leave it there for the life of the tyre.

3. Yeah, that's a fairly common way to repair a tubeless tyre, but keep in mind that one you're patching them up like this they must be pretty compromised externally and from my experience the tyres seem harder and harder to mount each successive time that you unmount and remount then so maybe it's not worth it.
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g-boaf
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Bennoz wrote:Hi again

have been practicing the descent tips and i can feel an improvement in handling and my confidence, so thanks for the tips

im hoping to get a bit of advice on punctures:


Put some new tyres on, don't chance it. While I've not ridden the exact L'Etape course, I've ridden on some of the roads down that way and there are some pretty fast descents. Don't chance it.

Whenever I go and do Haute Route events, tyres are always new, same with tubes. New brake pads as well, along with spare pads, a spare derailleur hanger, etc. I've virtually got almost all the parts I need in case something gets broken. L'Etape isn't quite as big a trek being local, but it's still a hefty spend to enter and something you are putting effort into. You don't want silly things interrupting that.

BugsBunny
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby BugsBunny » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:01 pm

Giant make an external patch kit that you could stick onto the *outer* tire. Whether it seals well or not will depend on - I assume, whether your tire is of the smooth/bald type, and if you get the puncture in the rain making the glue unable to stick. The kit comes with a few small thin patches of rubber and some glue. It would be a good option if you're unable for whatever reason to remove the tubeless tire and/or put in a tube.

What sealant did you use btw? Interested to know why yours didn't seal.

Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:00 am

BugsBunny wrote:What sealant did you use btw? Interested to know why yours didn't seal.


not sure - came stock with the bike. It was a fairly big puncture too.

anyway took the opportunity to replace both tires with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One, and used Stans NoTubes race sealant

Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:11 am

Blew myself up on the weekend – did a 108km ride yesterday but was lax on the nutrition and paid for it.
Was fine for the 1st 95km then decided to drop down into the national park to do a beloka type hill before heading home…well I hit the wall big time!

Got half way up and had to get off. Couldn’t even walk. Legs wouldn’t work, vision narrowed – just ran out of energy.
Took me 30min just to walk up the hill

Made it to a servo and got a Gatorade and an energy bar. within 5min I was back

Will really need to work out a nutrition plan for leTape.

TheWall
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby TheWall » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:42 pm

Bennoz wrote:Blew myself up on the weekend – did a 108km ride yesterday but was lax on the nutrition and paid for it.
....well I hit the wall big time

Will really need to work out a nutrition plan for leTape.


Be nice to The Walls :mrgreen:

The event has SIS as a sponsor so there is no shortage. I took 4 gels with me and finished with 7 :lol:

Eat early...eat regularly and drink even if you do not feel like it (small amounts).

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g-boaf
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:00 pm

TheWall wrote:
Bennoz wrote:Blew myself up on the weekend – did a 108km ride yesterday but was lax on the nutrition and paid for it.
....well I hit the wall big time

Will really need to work out a nutrition plan for leTape.


Be nice to The Walls :mrgreen:

The event has SIS as a sponsor so there is no shortage. I took 4 gels with me and finished with 7 :lol:

Eat early...eat regularly and drink even if you do not feel like it (small amounts).


On the topic of SIS, they have some very nice dissolving tablets for hydration - the cola flavoured one is quite nice.

I see there are still entries available for L'Etape... Hmm - interesting.

For Bennoz, just don't go too flat out on the hills and eat steadily, you'll get through this. :)

Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:52 pm

TheWall wrote:Eat early...eat regularly and drink even if you do not feel like it (small amounts).


g-boaf wrote: just don't go too flat out on the hills and eat steadily, you'll get through this. :)


cheers guys
in a way im kinda glad i bonked on the weekend and not the event. I was pretty blasé about the nutrition. 30-60g carbs per hour etc etc etc.
Now im going to be pretty vigilant about it. Plus i now recognise the early signs

Just on yesterdays ride - i took 2 gels with me not really looking at the nutrition facts, thinking she'l be right.
22g carbs per gel. had one at around 40km and the next at 80km
over 3.5hrs of riding, 108km with only 44g carbs. no wonder a newbie like me came off 2nd best :D

TheWall
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby TheWall » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 pm

Good pick up looking at the contents...even without the ride effort that little to eat over 3-4 hours would leave you short.

In my humble opinion you will be fine. Enjoy it!

Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:45 am

did the akuna bay+west head loop on Sunday. really nice ride.
52km with 1100m climbing. felt really good. wanted to do the loop twice but ran out of time.
That was my last long ride before the event

lots of LeTape jerseys out there as well.

Business as usual this week, just turning the legs over. aiming to get out on the road for 5x1hr sessions. cant fit in a long ride this weekend and next weekend is the event

Bike is dialed in. new tires fitted. spares ready to go. nutrition plan sorted.
im getting excited ;)

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g-boaf
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby g-boaf » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:34 pm

Bennoz wrote:did the akuna bay+west head loop on Sunday. really nice ride.
52km with 1100m climbing. felt really good. wanted to do the loop twice but ran out of time.
That was my last long ride before the event


Excellent!

Bennoz wrote:Bike is dialed in. new tires fitted. spares ready to go. nutrition plan sorted.
im getting excited ;)


Good work. I don't really have a whole lot more to say as it seems you've got everything well under control. Just enjoy it, be a bit careful in the bunches, watch for people doing unexpected things.

Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:32 am

5 days out and its snowing in perisher !!!
hope the weather clears for the weekend

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g-boaf
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:13 am

Bennoz wrote:5 days out and its snowing in perisher !!!
hope the weather clears for the weekend


That's what it's all about, the full race experience. :D

I've ridden in that kind of weather before (150km of pouring rain and snow). You'll be okay - just have warm waterproof and windproof cycling kit. If you can stay dry underneath, it's not so bad. But if your kit gets soaked through and you are doing 50-60km/h+, that's pretty miserable.

L'Etape last year had pretty bad weather too. I wouldn't bet on the weather staying like this however - it could just as well get stinking hot quickly too given how quickly the weather changes at the moment. :roll:

Good luck for the event.

macca33
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby macca33 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:04 pm

Friday is looking okay, hopefully continues through to Satdy - take cold weather clothes!

cheers
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Bennoz
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby Bennoz » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:54 pm

just got back home from LeTape, and had such a good time.
Weather was great - couldnt have asked for much better

The event itself was awesome. They have done a great job organising it. The volunteers and supporters that were out there really made a difference. people cheering from the sidelines, kids high-fiving riders as we went past. was a great atmosphere

for my part, i started in wave 2, and the 1st 30km were pretty chaotic. Lots of groups passing each other and just trying to settle into a rhythm. Had some good chats with people, enjoying the countryside, fairly easy going until the 85km mark and beloka.

I was really watching my food and fluid intake. lots to eat and drinking about 1lt water (hydrolite) per hour. Was feeling strong starting beloka and managed the 1st incline okay. got to the flat section and my legs just cramped up bad - to the point i couldnt bet off my bike. Someone held me for 5min because i couldnt unclip my 2nd leg. I thanked the guy and he rode off wile i drank more and stretched. Kept going and had to come off my bike 2 more times with cramps.

eventually got to the top of beloka, smashed a heap of water and chips, refilled on hydrolite and kept going. took it easy to the next rest stop but even then i cramped up 3 more times before reaching the base of the kosciuszko. i wasnt confident my legs would hold up for the climb. It was really frustrating because i was feeling great. lots of energy in the tank, i just couldnt get passed the cramps. more water and stretches and i headed up

The kosciuszko climb itself was fine. it just went on forever !
i stopped halfway just to have a preemptive stretch. made it to 2km from the top before my legs started twitching with the onset of cramps. That last 2km was hard mentally. It was hard to shift my weight around without getting a cramp but i got there.

Was a good feeling on top of perisher, snow capped peaks around, nice cool breeze. took a few photos, more water and stretches and i was on the home stretch. As hard as the climb was, it was worth the descent ;) Powered through the last 10km to finish the course in just over 8hrs total time, about 7hrs in the saddle

Was staying just across the road from the start line and i rode straight into the shower. Was surprised to see how much salt build up there was on me. Helmet straps were white, face was white, shorts and base layer white...just caked in dried sweat. Worked out i had over 10ltrs of water (hydrolite) on the day. maybe i just sweat alot, and/or it was a warm day

felt really good finishing and will definitely do it again

nemo57
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby nemo57 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:19 pm

Well done that man!

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g-boaf
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:51 pm

Bennoz wrote:just got back home from LeTape, and had such a good time.
Weather was great - couldnt have asked for much better

The event itself was awesome. They have done a great job organising it. The volunteers and supporters that were out there really made a difference. people cheering from the sidelines, kids high-fiving riders as we went past. was a great atmosphere

for my part, i started in wave 2, and the 1st 30km were pretty chaotic. Lots of groups passing each other and just trying to settle into a rhythm. Had some good chats with people, enjoying the countryside, fairly easy going until the 85km mark and beloka.

I was really watching my food and fluid intake. lots to eat and drinking about 1lt water (hydrolite) per hour. Was feeling strong starting beloka and managed the 1st incline okay. got to the flat section and my legs just cramped up bad - to the point i couldnt bet off my bike. Someone held me for 5min because i couldnt unclip my 2nd leg. I thanked the guy and he rode off wile i drank more and stretched. Kept going and had to come off my bike 2 more times with cramps.

eventually got to the top of beloka, smashed a heap of water and chips, refilled on hydrolite and kept going. took it easy to the next rest stop but even then i cramped up 3 more times before reaching the base of the kosciuszko. i wasnt confident my legs would hold up for the climb. It was really frustrating because i was feeling great. lots of energy in the tank, i just couldnt get passed the cramps. more water and stretches and i headed up

The kosciuszko climb itself was fine. it just went on forever !
i stopped halfway just to have a preemptive stretch. made it to 2km from the top before my legs started twitching with the onset of cramps. That last 2km was hard mentally. It was hard to shift my weight around without getting a cramp but i got there.

Was a good feeling on top of perisher, snow capped peaks around, nice cool breeze. took a few photos, more water and stretches and i was on the home stretch. As hard as the climb was, it was worth the descent ;) Powered through the last 10km to finish the course in just over 8hrs total time, about 7hrs in the saddle

Was staying just across the road from the start line and i rode straight into the shower. Was surprised to see how much salt build up there was on me. Helmet straps were white, face was white, shorts and base layer white...just caked in dried sweat. Worked out i had over 10ltrs of water (hydrolite) on the day. maybe i just sweat alot, and/or it was a warm day

felt really good finishing and will definitely do it again



Well done. 8) I think cramps are about having the kilometres in your legs, but on hot days for me, if I'm not careful with my hydration those cramps will be threatening. I know some people pour scorn on that idea, but I think it's a bit of both, your muscles adapting to the demands on them and keeping your hydration going properly. That's my take on it based on experience.
Last edited by g-boaf on Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:17 pm

Great effort.

For me cramps are always related to a lack of training. My bet is with all the riders around you, and because you where feeling good, you hit the Beloka climb harder than you would solo. Once the damage is done it’s hard for your body to recover from the effort.

I have always found it better to ride through cramps, as painful as it can be sometimes. As soon as you stop that’s when you give them the opportunity to set in. Also remember even if your just rolling along, just gently turning the legs your gaining time. As soon as you stop your losing it.
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foo on patrol
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:13 pm

It's not always a lack of fitness, that causes cramps. I suffered badly from cramps as a youngin and even when very fit, they would take hold of me. The only thing that helped was calcium tablets on a prescription. :wink:

Good effort. 8)
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robbo mcs
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Re: training for LeTape and need some help

Postby robbo mcs » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:01 pm

I did the event, and have done it for the last 3 years. I did notice a lot of people struggling with cramps this year. Not sure why? It was quite warm, so maybe that was a factor. On the perisher climb there were loads of people off the bike, trying to recover.

@bennoz, good effort to finish. It would have been easy to call it quits

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