The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

The foundations for successful riding

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:58 pm

Nice one Alex...my day wasn't as successful :oops: .
The planned up to 5x3mins at VO2 sucked :oops: :oops: :oops: ...only managed 3...412w av,406w av and 398w av....then pulled the pin as I didn't think it was worth carry on dropping that much each effort.
For comparison on the same climb two months ago I did 3 5minutes at 430-460w av....no wonder racing has been hard lately :roll: !.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14331
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

by BNA » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:17 pm

BNA
 

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:17 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:2 x 20-min TTIs today in the park. My first set of 20-min TTIs in a long while.
Aiming to get to 2 x 20-min (AT) 275W in about six weeks.

except I buggered that plan up by doing them today as follows:
TTI 1: 277W
TTI 2: 275W
:D

8) :mrgreen:
Your buggering up > TLL's buggering up :lol:
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:25 pm

toolonglegs wrote:....then pulled the pin as I didn't think it was worth carry on dropping that much each effort.

You did the right thing.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:28 pm

Ant. wrote:Your buggering up > TLL's buggering up :lol:

Yeah, well my buggering up means I'm now shooting for 2 x 20-min (AT) 290W
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:34 pm

According to training program, I was aiming for 320-350W, which means, Alex, you and I both buggered up today 8)
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby twizzle » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:24 pm

Well, I'm f*ked. Fartleked to be precise. Much harder than 2x20's.

I've discovered I can handle the boredom with music, it doesn't interrupt me from watching the clock.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby USM TOM » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:21 pm

had a nice solo ride today on teh highway
did 50km and averaged 32.7kph which is pretty decent for me :)

once i get fitter and more confidence in my back i'l start doing intervals again
USM TOM
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:28 pm

2hr ET today NP ~ 230W
2.5hrs steady tomorrow.....
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:56 am

Hard to find time today...but did get in some sprint efforts...and something went right!....new max of 1280w (over 100w improvement) & new peak 5 sec of 1166 (86w improvement)....still along way to go but happy with that!.

Weird how my 4 sec power is 80w higher than my 5 sec,after 4 secs it dives away :roll: .
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14331
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:45 am

toolonglegs wrote:Hard to find time today...but did get in some sprint efforts...and something went right!....new max of 1280w (over 100w improvement) & new peak 5 sec of 1166 (86w improvement)....still along way to go but happy with that!.
Nice
toolonglegs wrote:Weird how my 4 sec power is 80w higher than my 5 sec,after 4 secs it dives away :roll: .
There are other non-physiological reasons why that might be the case (e.g. PT's aliasing effect).
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:00 pm

I read somewhere that someone had had a 200w sprint power increase just by going from PT to SRM?...anyone else heard that or urban myth!?!.
There are other non-physiological reasons why that might be the case (e.g. PT's aliasing effect).

Yes I never thought of that...maybe as it is a very straight line instead of a curve.
Image
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14331
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:16 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I read somewhere that someone had had a 200w sprint power increase just by going from PT to SRM?...anyone else heard that or urban myth!?!.
There are other non-physiological reasons why that might be the case (e.g. PT's aliasing effect).

Yes I never thought of that...maybe as it is a very straight line instead of a curve.

That would be a myth, if one is comparing apples with apples (same duration).

An SRM and a PT, properly calibrated and zeroed, will read about 2.5% different, with the SRM higher. That's because we lose about 2.5% of the power we produce between the cranks and the rear wheel (typical drivetrain losses). A 200W difference suggests that the reading was for a different time duration (e.g. 1/2-sec or the SRM vs longer for PT, or was not properly calibrated or zeroed).

The MMP curve will mask the aliasing effect - for that you need to inspect the actual power trace of the sprint but in this case it is not immediately apparent.

If you look over your files at steady sections of riding, you'll see the power line zig zags up n down every point - even though it's a pretty steady section of riding. That's only partly because your actual power varies up n down, the main reason is due to an artefact known as aliasing (time based sampling of the data), which happens on PTs but not on SRMs (as they use event based sampling). It's not big deal and it all comes out in the wash but it can affect how we interpret very short range power data from a PT. 5-sec MM power is about the shortest one should rely on from a PT.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:56 pm

ET/LR solo ride today, did an Anzac/Malabar/Lapa/Breakwater/Foreshore/Lapa/Anzac Pde/Park loop.
2:20 IF:0.81 151TSS NP:222W
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby USM TOM » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:45 pm

my lower back is starting to feel pretty decent now while riding (i think swimming twice a week help heaps)

did a 53km run up the highway at 31.5kph
was a bit windy today so i started to struggle a bit on the long run home into the headwind (southerly) and my run north was probably a little slow
USM TOM
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:35 pm

I love training in the rain, but can't stand sprinting in the wet, never the best watts. After a long period of sunshine, the rain clouds today came out to play, because it was my training day with sprints thrown in. I think the last time it rained was the last time I had to do sprints :lol:

Peak 5s about 1100W, peak 10s at about 1050W. Well, that just tells me I need to try (time and time again) to breakaway from the sprinters before the end.
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby twizzle » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:50 pm

19.something k time trial with Veterans. I did the age standard... for a 60 year old. :roll: Mind you, I don't think anyone particularly close to the age standard, and the closest ones were on full TT bikes. Still waiting on results. Knees are good, quads are hurting from the final sprint up to the finish (up a hill).

The concern now : HR is maxing at 174 - back in March it was (from memory) 182. I now have a very fine line between max sustainable effort (168bpm) and feeling like I'm going to fall off the bike.

Edit : frockit, just been looking at the data using wko+ and discovered that about 1:30 of cadence data is missing. Going back to Training Centre and turning off smoothing and it's missing from there as well, just hidden as an average instead of showing as a drop-out. No way the cadence setup was wrong, so where did my data go!

Edit: Clarification.
Last edited by twizzle on Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:28 pm

Cadence data (an oxymoron?)
Not on purpose (all self selected), just having a post-hoc look now at previous training sessions, for one reason or another that I'm not that interested in, I tend to do 20min intervals (and time trialling in general) at ~85rpm, and 4min intervals at 95-100rpm.
I wouldn't worry about differing max heart rates, cardiac output is the important metric, and is damn hard to determine. Elite athletes generally have a lower max heart rate than their age matched counterparts.

Ordered a SRM track yesterday 8) Now I just need a bike to go around it :?
Tomorrow morning I have a date with the scales. Clocked 66.5kg last Monday, hoping to better that number by a little 8)
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby USM TOM » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:31 pm

me and a mate did our longest road ever
77km at 28.6kph up the highway

was a pretty enjoyable ride and will become a regular fixture once there more daylight hours after work
USM TOM
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby twizzle » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:06 pm

Ant. wrote:Cadence data (an oxymoron?)
Not on purpose (all self selected), just having a post-hoc look now at previous training sessions, for one reason or another that I'm not that interested in, I tend to do 20min intervals (and time trialling in general) at ~85rpm, and 4min intervals at 95-100rpm.
I wouldn't worry about differing max heart rates, cardiac output is the important metric, and is damn hard to determine. Elite athletes generally have a lower max heart rate than their age matched counterparts.

Ordered a SRM track yesterday 8) Now I just need a bike to go around it :?
Tomorrow morning I have a date with the scales. Clocked 66.5kg last Monday, hoping to better that number by a little 8)


Sooooooooo. How much to you want for your Powertap? ;)

Cadence/speed sensor died on the way home tonight - flat battery. Looks like I might have one of the dodgy senders than eats batteries.

Re. HR - if it dropped because the cardiac output has improved, then I shouldn't have got my arse handed to me at the Crit a week-and-a-bit ago. Ergo, it's not dropped in a good way. :?

And I'm STILL 104kg. But my wedding ring needs resizing again.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:33 pm

Sounds like it's dropped in conjunction with a drop in power, but of course, you already know how you'd determine if that's true :wink:
No idea what it means though, I'm no coach, but you may be in an overreaching/underresting phase.

Powertaps not for sale! This will bring me to:
Powertap pro+ inside training wheel.
Zipp 404 tubular powertap.
Zipp sub9 powertap disc.
SRM professional track.

I have thought about offloading the 3 powertaps in favour of 2 SRM professional's (one for road bike, one for time trial bike because I'm a mechanical moron who isn't thrilled about changing to and fro carbon brake blocks for race wheels, let alone changing cranks), but no need for me to entertain that thought now! Got all the power I need. It'd be cool to worry less about the potential of folding up my disc in a crash, versus one half the price sans-power, oh well, I'll just keep'er rubber side down.

Congrats on the wedding ring resize (i'm presuming a downsize 8) ) Keep at it :)
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby twizzle » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:36 am

Ant. - a man with a wheel for all occasions. :mrgreen: <- Yes, Green with envy.

As for measuring a drop in power... I wouldn't have anything to compare it to back then anyway. And why have you gone SRM this time?

I had to leave my van at work last night, as it's getting a new radiator this morning. Stuck it in the underground carpark, and rode the bike home - after about five minutes the speed/cadence dropped out completely, but would come back for a few seconds if I coasted and resumed pedalling. I tested the battery when I got home, and it was down to 20%, so Ichucked in a new-ish battery which I will check tonight. Seems Garmin have some known design/quality flaws with the GSC 10 speed/cadence sender, one of which causes it to flatten the battery within about three hours along with intermittent operation. Home fixable if you have surface mount component soldering gear and stereo microscope to R&R one of the components. :?

The wedding ring was slightly too large back in '96, was tight three years ago, was resized down two sizes at the beginning of last year, and it's falling off my finger again now.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:44 pm

twizzle wrote:And why have you gone SRM this time?

Because, aside from some old/2nd hand/no longer available powertaps, it is the only power meter available for use on track bikes.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:30 pm

^^
Correctamundo.
However, a little birdie told me the new to-be generation of powertaps will also be available as a fixed hub (for track use), but then I know I'll inevitably be forced to eventually buy 2 or 3 more of the suckers to accomodate different track wheels I'm bound to end up with.


Rest day. Cycled to and from uni. 6km, AP of 100W. Yeah 8)
3hr steady ride tomorrow, with 5 4min intervals thrown within that 8) Can't decide whether the 4min intervals or the 20min intervals are my favourite session. I've got exactly 3hr 10min break, so should be a good squeeze. I'll whip out the skinsuit for the occasion.
Same weight this morning as last week :roll: I don't want to, but maybe I'll start being more scientific and counting instead of just 'winging it'.
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby twizzle » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:41 am

Rest day for me too today - driving. 70% chance of rain and thunderstorms expected. I'll hit the trainer tonight instead.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby Ant. » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:23 pm

Ant. wrote:I'll set my sights on 370W next week, there's more in the tank here 8)

:roll: :oops:
362W, 361W, (boom) 338W, 349W, 341W.
Serves me right I guess :lol: Days like this motivate the hell out of me. That 20min effort in 2days time is going to cop a hammering.
Cervélo R3
Cervélo P3C
BT Blade
Ant.
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Perth

PreviousNext

Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter