The foundations for successful riding
I am going OK backing up short duration intervals with longer FTP efforts. I think 2 weeks out of 4 I am doing FTP then interval then FTP. Rest about 2-3 days a week. Every fourth week I wind back the hard stuff and just do easy commutes with maybe one hard effort through the week.
I noted down below that I rest or just commute on Wednesdays and Fridays - at least one of those days are rest. If I'm feeling fatigued or I did a big Sunday ride I try rest both if at all possible.
Seems to be going OK, hitting the numbers I want to hit, doesn't feel like I'm overtraining - kinda the opposite, feels like I could do more. But if I did more then I think I'd be on the knife's edge.
I'm 28, 69kg, cycling for just over 12 months. Testing tells me FTP is somewhere around 260, Strava thinks 269. I think 260. Average to good 8+ min power, pretty untrained over shorter than 5 min durations until the last month or so. First race showed me some big gaps!
Easy commute - 30TSS (18km, 180m climbing)
Commute + short duration full noise intervals (30 sec and 1 min or 3 min) - 100TSS
Easy commute - 30TSS
Home the long way, 14-16 minute climbing effort (110%ish FTP), 30-60 second break then settle back into FTP-ish pace on a lumpy climb for 35-40 minutes, then back down pushing as hard as possible. 140TSS.
Either catch a lift to work
Easy commute - 30TSS
Easy commute home - 50TSS (18km, 300m climbing)
Pretty cruisy group ride with 8 minute full noise effort (120%ish FTP) - 100TSS
Easy commute home - 50TSS OR near on race-intensity 75 min surgey paceline ride - 110TSS
Either catch a lift to work
Easy commute - 30TSS
Easy commute home - 50TSS
Depends how much free time I have, either 2 hours at 90% intensity or 4 hours at 80%. 130-250TSS.
P.S. I walk our puppy morning and noon most days.
Cheers for that Xplora, much appreciated. Walking the dog isn't a training term, more a chore I have to do; walk the dog The GF walks it the other three mornings. So I'm somewhat restricted in when I can ride.
I've toyed with the idea of getting up at 4:30 on the day I need to walk and ride to squeeze it all in, but I'm not too sure how well it'd go down me getting up at 4:30 three times a week with 5:30 starts twice a week. Going into Winter I'm not sure it's something I'd be able to maintain for 2-3 months!
Having a look at the past couple of group rides I've got the following breakdown:
Thursday Group - I was in the Z3 zone for 37% of the time and Z4 30% of the time. This would be slightly higher than normal but within 5% of the time I'd spend in each zone.
Saturday Group - Z3 39%, Z4 19% and Z5 1%. Where I'd spend an hour at Z4 and Z5; the only rest is if the group is caught at a light.
Agree completely. The Thursday group is with guys that are A and B Grade quality (while I would classify myself as a competitive C grader), so during the longer sprint sections (5km+) I'm slowly holding on for longer periods. But there is still plenty of work to be done on my behalf before I get to the stage of them being too slow
Interesting stuff. Should I limit myself on the type of VO2 intervals I do? Currently I'm doing 12 - 16 x 40/20's. I've thought about incorporating some unders and overs every other week to keep it fresh, but I don't think I'd mentally be able to do 3 minute sessions.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing all that Boss.
I live quite close to where I work, so my commute doesn't leave room for intervals. But I am easily able to ride to a location where I can perform them. Your Thursday looks very similar to what I'm currently doing (minus the long commute). You seem to be doing a lot of intense workouts in the evening, how are you finding yourself energy wise both at the afternoon and in the morning?
I spent a large chunk of last year only doing morning sessions on the bike, and found it didn't really work for me. I'd be sapped of energy getting into work and it would make the day really drag. Moving house late in the year extended the commute (from 12km/50m return to 36km/500m return)... then bought a puppy and snuck in a power meter, all of which made me reassess the way I ride/train. Leaving my partner to deal with a 8 week old puppy's mess a few times a week didn't seem fair, so I wound it back to one early session and started doing sneaky afternoon work.
In that I discovered that afternoon work is a lot more palatable for me, my partner and the puppy (now 6 months old and not making so much mess in the mornings ).
The only day I struggle with evening work is Thursdays, and that's because of the effort I do on Thursday mornings. If I skipped that Thursday morning 8 minute effort, the evening session would be no bother, and I'm unsure if a single 8 minute effort really adds that much value to my training goals. But truth be told - I enjoy that session the most because of the social aspect afterwards, so I'm hesitant to give it up. Either way, it's pretty much an unsanctioned ITT/TTT on a 3.8km climb, and I have been known to occasionally put in an easy effort to save matches for the evening. Easier said than done - watching your mates go for it and hanging for an easy hitout is tough!
But yeah, all the other days are fine. I just make sure I eat enough, focus on getting carbs in, couple of bananas an hour before and have a can of coke or something before I leave work.
Ultimately I'd like to be 66-67kg to get free w/kg but for the moment I'm focused on training hard, so you gotta fuel for it or you're going to have a bad time. I err on the side of caution (lots of carbs) which means I rarely bonk and still feel OK-ish after a 3-day block, but losing a couple of kilos just isn't really possible.
Also I work a desk job so that helps with still having stuff in the tank after work.
Last edited by boss on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ignoto, I'm making an assumption you made a typo on your long Saturday ride being an hour at z3 and z4 together - otherwise your long ride is 2.5hours at Z3 and Z4. You need to review your FTP badly if that's the case, because I doubt I could physically handle that ride with those figures.
If you can commute, you should - sounds pretty easy for you to add because it's short. Recovery ride doesn't need to be scheduled at all - FTW. Pads out your TSS as well. I was getting about 650-700 TSS a week with only one proper long ride when I commuted like boss Then you can walk the dog guilt free, and keep SWMBO happy. I would question how necessary the Tuesday ride is - junk miles are bad miles. If you are simply chatting with friends on a bike, that's cool - no point going insane - but discipline dictates training comes first. I actually don't ride with the Fast group on the weekends I don't race (once every 2-3 weeks lately) because the effort just destroys my weekly schedule. I can't help myself, I have to suffer, so it's better for ME to roll slower and pump out a couple brutal intervals afterwards when fresh.
You'll handle the morning and evening commutes easy if you stay little ring. For me - given a massive Saturday murderfest (pre racing), I'd go medium Monday Morning, hard home, full brutal both Tuesday, hard both wednesdays, medium thursday, hard home, then hard in on friday and little ring home on friday night. Refuse to go big ring. I always went as hard as I could, I pushed the four commutes after monday morning REALLY hard, then back right off to be ready for Saturday. You will adapt to everything given time. Don't worry.
Regarding Z5 workouts, and Z4 workouts, just look at the TSS. Try and have your ramps within the week, within the month/block and within the whole year, to be taking into account the racing, and any sickness etc. You might be capable of doing 150TSS Z5 work, but get dropped the next day. Your whole routine is aerobic (sub Z6) so you have to take that into account. I think a smart plan might be to drop the two interval days by a zone for the first week just to see how you cope.
Time to make dinner LOL End of the day, you've got Golden Cheetah/WKO, just look at your numbers and see how you feel.
Sick... I knew it ... that's why I never schedule rest weeks, life always gets in the way somewhere along the way.
VO2 intervals...me, I do them when fresh, usually 3 times 5 minutes ( I do 30/30's and all that sort of stuff on the rollers as well ). VO2 I find MUCH harder than FTP hence doing them fresh. Once a week is fine for me in the off season, especially if I have a weekly 1 hour long CX race. FTP's I can do before or after group rides etc, or after races on the way home depending how hard the race was... my races are normally 2 hours long. In Oz where most club races are less than an hour doing FTP after the race is even easier.
Oh I'm already commuting now, it's about 6km one way so I've found it's been a great way to help roll over the legs. I've extended one home commute to around 20-25km as the GF gets home late so it's a free hour of rolling the legs over.
You're bang on the money about it being a social ride. In the past, I've treated it as a recovery ride and on the rare occasion, a smashfest. If I wasn't getting grief for not turning up, I'd completely forgot about it and have Monday and Wednesday's as solo training. So I figure if I have a light social ride in the morning, the legs should be ok that afternoon.
Alrighty - is it a case of dropping the workload with an increase in sessions, slowly building the workload as you adapt to the extra sessions? Or just shock the body into doing it?
Ahhh, I think you've answered my above question here.
Looks like most of the harder rides I've done fall within the medium classification, so a simple date with the foam roller + recovery ride the following day should be sufficient. I just wonder mentally if it will take some time to get to the level of training.
Honestly, the mental aspect could be the hardest thing. Don't get me wrong - my advice is largely theoretical, and ultimately you get what you pay for I personally find sitting in the paceline at 42kmh easier than suffering through the 2x20 (which I don't think I've hit on the trainer properly). The bodies nearby do a lot for my neurotransmitters... I've found I pull a 300TSS in the fast groupride every time. Easier than the 75 TSS FTP workout, mentally.
I was physically ill regularly when I first started commuting and adding the saturday... about 180km/week. I had to go straight into it. But I got fitter, and it took me until 12 months ago when I realised that I had to spend more time recovering, rather than trying to put more into the legs. Then I needed to ride up more hills to improve the workload, then... then...
Don't worry about including your light ride, this is supposed to be fun - my point was simply that you have to be disciplined. If you are using it as a chat fest, do that. Treat it like a recovery ride, or a moderate endurance ride. Might be helpful to work on technique like cadence quietly... just don't try and win the sprint home. Don't ruin your VO2Max day.
When you are looking at what your minimums are, do a little reading on what is actually going to trigger the improvements. You need to hit 90% FTP for FTP improvements. You need to actually be at VO2Max to improve VO2Max levels. You would be better off doing a solid 95% 20+10 rather than 20x2 at 85% FTP. The biggest thing is lifestyle change IMO. You are sacrificing your body trying to ride this hard. You won't see results fast enough to motivate you. But glory awaits. Even if it simply beating everyone back to the coffee shop, that is worth it
On TLL's comment, and then I swear I'm going to stop typing - not everyone has the same FTP/Critical Power curve. I can imagine some finding FTP easy, while VO2Max hard. I find tempo very very very easy, while that small step up to FTP to be a nightmare. It's only 20W extra, but I know it hurts. I find I've got a fair bit in the kitbag for the longer anaerobic intervals as well... multiple 30s pushes don't seem to stress me much.... I suspect my body doesn't like steady state still. Training is training. 6% increase in FTP over the past 2 months. yay team.
Well if it adds weight to your point, there is a hundred (100) watts difference between my 5m and 20m power. It's either my body is ok at doing 5 minute efforts or my mind is horrible at longer sustained efforts.
It's possible... most of the gun lower grade club sprinters seem to suck a wheel and then ride like the clappers for half a lap.
I think a lot of it comes from our riding styles, and the advantages that you pick up... and then putting them in the race context, where there is no coffee shop and no predictable red light for rest. All my FTP work seems to have improved my 3-5 minute power ENORMOUSLY. I am guessing I've had more than 6% improvement at 3 minutes... but maybe that was a particular weakness? Maybe I was never pushed
Hate it when sickness gets in the way. I didn't ride at all last night - needed rest and iced the leg after smacking into a gate latch as I was walking. It decided to swell up a bit with a decent bruise.. It should be good for tonight I hope. Don't want my first race put off by something so simple.
Wednesday night was pretty good, got out on the new bike and got it setup properly. Got in some pursuit training. Second run was good. Rest of night okay.
Monday was 106km - that was good. Glad to now get those longer rides done with minimal fuss.
Giant TCR SL1
Specialized Langster Pro
Luckily not as sick as I thought...no fever ( touch wood ) and semi functional today. It's weird how you can feel it in your system when riding a day or so before it actually hits you!. "Sort" of gives me hope after my 20 minute test climb on Monday. Although any hope will probably be lost if it takes a few more days to get over it. Shame as I was thinking of doing a CX on Sunday ( not the worlds! ).
Why do you think that a short ride is better then walking the dog? I find I recover just as well doing nothing/walking the dog as an aimless short ride.
Not all dogs are created equal!!!
Ideally, recovery spins in z1 every day are awesome if you don't have a daily block to make sure you don't get a chance to promote muscle growth and tightness that creates imbalances. But ignato is commuting so recovery isn't needed. He is already riding about 11 times a week. Research apparently says that you can get away with just 15-20 minutes for recovery effectiveness.
I think it depends for everyone... I personally find recovery rides to be great, but I don't do them much because I have two kids and a wife who is smart enough to know how much of the family budget is consumed by the hobby... The harder you go, the better they will work. Anything that forces hypertrophy would benefit. So he wouldn't recover from the coffee cruise, but he would from the race and the hard rides.
Running after a dog isn't pedalling. Simple as that. There is nothing WRONG with this... Just saying what would be ideal.
Meh! A day off work, day 2 of a new training plan with the power meter and my garmin went flat after 3 minutes. On the plus side, had a nice 2 hour ride on PE. Better make sure that Garmin is charged for tomorrows ride.
Scott CR1, Kuota Kharma
Plus, where I live, I find it near on impossible to get a true 'recovery' ride in. Ride for longer than a minute and you're going to run into a hill. 2w/kg with compacts/28t isn't enough to get up the hills around my house without letting cadence get super low, which even at low power isn't good for my knees.
Much easier to take the puppy for a walk, pretty relaxed pace, when walking I can cut a few laps that avoid the steep grades in 15 mins... and I'd rather hang with a puppy TBH.
+2 I take the dog down the beach for a walk and a paddle. Works for me.
Scott CR1, Kuota Kharma
After a week of apathy 3peaks training back on track.
Gran Fonfo 2 done
Wanted to stay out longer but was getting a bit hot. Couple of kilos lighter than when i set off
Well done, that's a big ride with good elevation.
I did Gran Fondo 2 as well - 165km, but not as much elevation as your ride (I gave you kudos).
That was my first ever 165km ride, previous best was 133km. My legs did feel quite okay, like I could have gone further and I got some nice efforts in early on in the ride. (eg, first 50km).
But the saddle had turned into a torture device by 110km and I spent a lot of the last 55km pedaling out of the saddle. I don't normally do that, so it was time to get better at it. Oh, and find the smoothest roads. The bad news is that the smoothest road happened to be a nearly deserted bus transitway and my bike doesn't activate the traffic lights.
That was good to get the imperial century done. The Gran Fondo challenges have really pushed me to ride further and better.
Same here, also a few kilos lighter (57.5kg). I spent the afternoon eating everything in the fridge and drinking heaps. I'm still 2kg lighter than I was when I started yesterday. It was very hot yesterday by the time I finished.
Giant TCR SL1
Specialized Langster Pro
Always good to realise during a race your weaknesses. After being on hols for a month with no bike, back for 2 weeks , then some chest infection for 2 weeks, i really struggle with my 1-3 minutes efforts. For me, i’ve done quite some training after i came back from hols, but looking back at it, a lot was tempo riding. Yesterday, after not been able to close a gap when it counted, i decided to re-start doing specific interval training on the indoor trainer. Quite hard for me to get the motivation up to do sustained intervals on the road when it’s not a race, so i’ll do them on the trainer. A couple of sessions to get the ‘indoor trainer feel’ back and once the hardware i ordered to support Tainerroad arrives i’ll get into it.
I had a very good 75km ride last night in cooler conditions. The weather was useful, even despite the light drizzle in spots - because on the way back I was going to go for it. Luckily the track was fairly dry so the painted lines wouldn't be a worry.
I set a new PR by nearly a minute on my favourite Strava segment (38km) and noticed a few improvements on a couple of the intermediate sections near the end that always give me grief.
Should have track training tonight if the weather holds out. If it doesn't, I still got some useful/quality riding done.
Last edited by g-boaf on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Giant TCR SL1
Specialized Langster Pro
Set out to complete 2 reps of a 3.6km 8% climb. I hadn't done this climb since Nov 2013 and with feeling pretty good over the last few days I was expecting to equal or better my PR from a year ago (April 2013), which was set after 4 months of solid training. I have been training for 1 month (1500km) this time around.
First rep was completed 43 seconds better that my previous PB and management to set a PB for 10 minute power. The second effort was not so good. It started off well but after about 3 minutes had elapsed, I started to feel the sensation of hunger flatting. In hindsight, without any food on board I should have stopped the effort and returned home. I persisted on and upwards at a much slower rate, made it to the top and then headed home. 39km with 1000m
Happy with the one good effort at least, I will return to this climb next week to knock out two solid efforts, hopefully with another PB.
I can't remember where I read it... linked from a thread on here somewhere... but one of the Australian track coaches basically said that if one of his athletes PB's on power, they get sent home for the day, end of session. Not punishment, but if they keep going they'll dig themselves into a hole that will take weeks to recover from.
Obviously disregard that if it's a 'soft' PB but I think there's a lot of sense in it. Just last week I smashed my 3-4 minute power, took me about 15 minutes to recover, but kept going, rest of the training session was sh*thouse (not for lack of trying) and it ruined my training for the week.
Had to abandon Tuesday's session (42 degree heat didn't help), clean skipped Thursday arvo... Fri/Sat rest and Sunday skipped it because I was recovering from a very intense bucks night. Hahaha.
Was pretty surprised by the PB as I have only been training consistently for the single month.
I read somewhere (might have been in a thread on BNA) that if you get back to where you were at fitness wise and it didn't take long you are nowhere near your potential. I hope this holds true.
Over the past 3 weeks I've set power PBs for max, 5 sec, 10 sec, 5 minute, 10 minute and 20 minutes.
Must be doing something right.
I think I can go even better for 20 minutes. I have a 20km TT on the weekend so looking to smash myself in that.
Couldn't get outside yesterday so did a couple of sessions on the rollers.
Played around with the Joule GPS head as Garmin was flat... never tried the "power test" function... while it made the time pass quickly I don't think it is overly accurate!. Did the 20 min test twice, first time it only gave an ftp of 320. Second time I amped it up a bit now knowing what was coming, gave me an FTP of 380w . Could probably push that out way past 400 on the next go.
Pity it is so far off the mark !!!
Want to try a MAP test ... not sure if that is a good idea on the rollers, anyone ever done it?... don't want to go flying through a window when all the blood is in my legs and not in my brain.
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