The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

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Xplora
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:44 pm

Something seems up with those figures. My FTP day on the trainer is 85tss, one hour. Hill repeats is the same for 45 minutes. My easy bunch ride is normally 200tss minimum, if I go with.the hard group it's 300tss over 80 kms. Of course you could have a much much higher FTPx!

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:29 am

Xplora wrote:Something seems up with those figures. My FTP day on the trainer is 85tss, one hour. Hill repeats is the same for 45 minutes. My easy bunch ride is normally 200tss minimum, if I go with.the hard group it's 300tss over 80 kms. Of course you could have a much much higher FTPx!


TSS is relative to each person's threshold... doesn't matter if you have a threshold of 150w or 500w. 1 hour at ftp earns you 100TSS. So I expect your numbers are well and truly out. 300TSS for a 80km group ride... no way. You have your ftp set way too low.

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby brendan c » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:57 am

85tss in 45mins? 85/45*60 = 113.3% of ftp for 45mins

Is it set too low because you did your testing on the trainer?

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:05 pm

I might be misreporting the distances lol

You get a much bigger kick from normalised power than you'd expect. My race on Tuesday was 225w av but 279w normalised. 3-4 solid attacks plus the break gets a lot of TSS value. The 85 TSS in 45 minutes is because you get a lot more TSS from anything in z5 to z7 range plus a rest than just plugging away at z4 - or adding 20sec sprints to 800w while plugging away in z4

I think that's some of the real value of the power meter. It's hard to gauge the impact of your training.
Last edited by Xplora on Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ross
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ross » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:23 pm

I showed my coach* my numbers and he seems to think they are accurate.

*he's not really "my coach", just a coach I got to for advice on stuff. He's familiar with how I ride and the courses/terrain I ride.

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The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:43 pm

Bearing NP in mind I would still say your TSS are really high Xplora. Maybe you need more FTP testing... Where are you setting your FTP from?.

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:07 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Bearing NP in mind I would still say your TSS are really high Xplora. Maybe you need more FTP testing... Where are you setting your FTP from?.

I am using a guesstimate from xPower (30 second rolling exponential) and NP (30 second rolling average). Xpower tends to report lower figures for sprint work, bit more consistent. Currently using 270, I think it's possible I've underestimated in the past. Might be able to use 280 now based on the last race, but I can't complete Z4 intervals based on that FTP estimate. 2x20 is not going to happen using 280 as a baseline! :lol: I don't think I can actually perform a one hour TT at FTP. :shock: That's why I allow it to be a little lower.

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Le Mong » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:26 am

You need to do a 20 minute all out effort and take 95% (effort x0.95) of that 20 minute "lap" to calculate a pretty close estimate.

20 minutes easy warm up
3 x 1-minute wind ups with a minute rest between (100 RPM pedal cadence)
5 minutes easy
5 minutes all out (hard at first, but not so hard that you can't complete the effort)
10 minutes easy
20-minute time trial effort (like the previous 5-minute all out effort, keep in control, hard but steady, you don't want to over cook it and die at the end)
10 to 15 minute cool down

In comparison using 300w as my ftp (was actually closer to 310w at the time based off efforts in the previous week) a 320TSS ride for me was 4h45m at 214w average/239w weighted average including a 26min effort averaging 300w actual.

http://www.strava.com/activities/114799552/overview

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:56 am

I will have a look but I tend to have much harder efforts than that during my longer rides. My 130kms in January started with a hard TT effort for 25-30kms, plus all the hills. Wanted to make sure I had enough for z4 which wasn't going to happen after 100kms.

I think it comes under Alex's 7 deadly sins of FTP. NP for an hour doesn't reflect one hour power for everyone. Going to put the rotor rings on today so it's going to bugger the quarq data anyway. I will have a look at a couple long rides to find some match burning. Cheers lads.

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Le Mong » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:28 am

So what, your 30 sec extrapolation is more accurate than a tried and proven method?

Post up the 130km link. If you did a TT intensity of 30+km there will be a 20min effort in there.

Its pretty simple, if you cant hold it for 1 hour then basically drop dead then its not your FTP and any numbers you work with as a result are misleading.. Have fun with that logic.

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby kb » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:32 am

Le Mong, I think you've misunderstood Xplora's post above. The 30s (25 for xPower?) is rolling window - still included all the data, it's just processed to give higher weighting to high power bursts to try to better match the physiological effect of variable efforts to average power of steady efforts. A fairly even TT average power may be better. Sometimes it's hard to get everything to line up properly though - time, freshness, health, motivation..
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Le Mong » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:38 am

Sorry. Poorly worded my reply. Its still an extrapolation of data rather than just doing an hours structured work on the trainer or findind somewhere to TT.

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:28 am

For my own tracking is climbs up 1:20 in Melbourne. Try and get out for a regular crack during summer months. This morning managed 18:45 and avg power of 380W - 35 sec and 15W better than 6 weeks ago :)

I find ~20mins as much as I can tolerate of going hard...

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:14 pm

anttismo wrote:For my own tracking is climbs up 1:20 in Melbourne. Try and get out for a regular crack during summer months. This morning managed 18:45 and avg power of 380W - 35 sec and 15W better than 6 weeks ago :)

I find ~20mins as much as I can tolerate of going hard...

Just looking at your signature. Do you seriously average 90km a day? That's insane :shock:
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:30 am

Well yeah, in summer it tends to be a fair bit. It'll drop in winter, but for now I'll enjoy the nice conditions :)

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:36 am

anttismo wrote:Well yeah, in summer it tends to be a fair bit. It'll drop in winter, but for now I'll enjoy the nice conditions :)

When do you find the time to do this? Is it just training mixed in with commuting?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:00 am

I don't actually commute - OK, it's 5 kms return - usually walk, sometimes on the BMX, never log it on strava. So I just go riding as part of each morning. Normally go to bed 6 or 7 pm, hit the road by 1 or 2 am, try and be home by about 5~5.30 before traffic gets bad. Have a strech, rest and relax before heading into work about 8am. I'd say 90% of my riding is with ay-ups blazing (great products - current full epic battery has done 2~6hrs a night for last 2 yrs, basically every day)

Having a look aty my strava account I've done 61 rides on the 57 days so far this year (doubled up some days during holidays) - 199hrs, so a bit over 3hrs a ride. What can I say except been doing this for a few years - just a nice way my life has worked out :)

Probably 2 or 3 rides a week on the road bike are focused - hill repats, hi intensity intervals, a long TT, whatever. 1 or 2 rides a week are very much recovery - <2 hrs, <50% intensity. The remaining rides are just meandering around as I please on the roadie, singlespeed, BMX, flat bar bike, MTB, whatever. Just cause I like riding :)

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:38 am

anttismo wrote:Normally go to bed 6 or 7 pm, hit the road by 1 or 2 am, try and be home by about 5~5.30 before traffic gets bad. Have a strech, rest and relax before heading into work about 8am. I'd say 90% of my riding is with ay-ups blazing (great products - current full epic battery has done 2~6hrs a night for last 2 yrs, basically every day)

:shock:
You do this even on the weekend?

I dont think my missus would be keen on that. Nor myself to be honest. I have done the occasional post midnight ride start but it's not something that I would want to do everyday. How do you manage to get to sleep so early in the summer with daylight savings down there? The sun would still be blazing 3 hours after you went to bed.

How did you end up in this riding pattern?

anttismo wrote:Having a look aty my strava account I've done 61 rides on the 57 days so far this year (doubled up some days during holidays) - 199hrs, so a bit over 3hrs a ride. What can I say except been doing this for a few years - just a nice way my life has worked out :)

You'll have to give me a link for your account.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:15 am

singlespeedscott wrote:....You do this even on the weekend?...


yeah. Pretty dissapointing really to have nothing to look forward to on Friday nights (like getting hammered - I gave up a serious drinking habit a few years back) :lol:

singlespeedscott wrote:....I dont think my missus would be keen on that. Nor myself to be honest. I have done the occasional post midnight ride start but it's not something that I would want to do everyday. How do you manage to get to sleep so early in the summer with daylight savings down there? The sun would still be blazing 3 hours after you went to bed

How did you end up in this riding pattern?


A few years back when I sobered up and lost weight I started sleeping better and going to bed earlier. It just evolved to what it is, especially once I started cycling and realised how crap cycling in Melbourne is after 6am. I just have good blinds and go to bed usually in daylight hrs. It very, very rarely warm in melbourne, but on the avg 1 week per year of heat wave I might have to have the A/C running.

singlespeedscott wrote:....You'll have to give me a link for your account.


http://www.strava.com/athletes/1812220

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:21 pm


Impressive stuff. What bike do you ride? In your avatar it looks like a flat bar?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:48 pm

anttismo that is pretty impressive in deed. There seems to be a few people on here who ride super early!... Although only Dean is doing your sort of kms.
Plus 380w for 20min is not to laughed at either!.
Beats drinking yourself to sleep ;-)

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:01 am

Thanks guys. The bike in avatar is an Avanti flat bar roadie I bought in December. I like it a lot and is my current default do anything on it bike - some road rides, dirt trails, cyclepaths, whatever. Still, in summer most miles are on the normal road bike - a cheaper end wilier something or other. And yeah, 380W isn't too bad I guess, but I only just scrape in under 100kg so not much chop in the KOM stakes :lol:

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:41 am

600 km a week and you weigh in at 100kg :shock:

You must be a tall unit? If I did that many km's a think I would be a stick :lol:
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:28 am

singlespeedscott wrote:600 km a week and you weigh in at 100kg :shock:

You must be a tall unit? If I did that many km's a think I would be a stick :lol:


Just look at the bike in the picture! That says everything. I'd say quite tall.

anttismo wrote:Normally go to bed 6 or 7 pm, hit the road by 1 or 2 am, try and be home by about 5~5.30 before traffic gets bad. Have a strech, rest and relax before heading into work about 8am. I'd say 90% of my riding is with ay-ups blazing (great products - current full epic battery has done 2~6hrs a night for last 2 yrs, basically every day)


You are going awesome! 1-2am rides do sound interesting - no traffic I suppose. 380w is also quite nice. :)


My training of recent has been high-intensity intervals. Less long rides so my km/week has dropped to about 270 from a high of 370-400. The interval stuff is good - quick and high intensity. All over in 1 hour, fits nicely into a lunch break. :)

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:43 pm

I'm 6'4", about 97~98 kg at the moment. Not as thin as what is humanly possible, been genrally trending downward this summer, likely slighly up in winter, but I'm happy enough. There are some real 95+kg goers on strava. Really quite impressive some of the climb times, people who are doing 5W/kg climbs, must obviously be pushing up toward 500W, perhaps even more...

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