The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

The foundations for successful riding

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:58 pm

This isn't intended to be rude, but I don't know how to be tactful about it...

What on earth do you eat as a vegan to be pushing that much weight? I've got visions of you sitting around with baguettes and olive oil????? :shock:

I have done another round of plyometrics on the stairs yesterday and I'm giving the core stability program from the Tom Danielson book a go. :) SHould go for a quick run right now actually.... efficiency ;)
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

by BNA » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:19 pm

BNA
 

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:19 pm

:lol: ... just food, plenty of fruit and veg... not much else. I will survive the next ice age no problems!.

PS... didn't get out of entering this http://www.routesdubourbonnais.fr/ ... eek only 1 month away, better get over this cold so I can get some training in!
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14331
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Toolish » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:03 am

Xplora wrote:I have done another round of plyometrics on the stairs yesterday and I'm giving the core stability program from the Tom Danielson book a go. :) SHould go for a quick run right now actually.... efficiency ;)


I started that program, then destroyed my elbow playing netball. Just come back good again so will be doing it again next week.

I was just doing the very basic program and it showed up some imbalances left to right.

I must admit I am not sure I was doing all of the exercises properly!
Image
User avatar
Toolish
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:38 pm
Location: Mildura, Victoria

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:53 am

Don't play netball. Simple. ;)

Make sure you get yourself a foam roller and smash out the areas of imbalance. You can't stretch a lot of areas by yourself. There is a reason why massage therapy is so important for athletes. It can't be done alone. A foam roller helps my mid back tightness enormously; when I go to do some stretches like the doorway stretches I can actually activate the right spots because I'm not carrying a large lordosis or kyphosis or scoliosis or whatever into the stretch. Just a minor one. Either way, I see Tommy's pics in the book and he has some really serious imbalances happening... no point trying to ruin your natural advantages!

I'm actually in the process of selling some drum cymbals right now because playing music creates such incredible imbalances for me (background in fast death metal) that it will ruin any hope I have of completing an Ironman next year. I think we occasionally don't realise how much strain we cause ourselves.
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:02 am

I did 5x5 intervals this morning. That was pretty good, I'm starting to feel and notice the improvements. 8)
g-boaf
 
Posts: 3871
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:19 pm

Just an update on the FTP, because of the ongoing questioning ;) NP came back a fair bit higher for the race today, I've bumped FTP up 15W. :lol:
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Tarquin » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:55 pm

130km and 1700m done today solo as I had an unexpected day off.

Apart from a moment at 80km where I was feeling a bit iffy and I needed a sugar hit all good. Ended up riding some damn steep hills that I hadn't expected, right on the bottom end of my gearing on a standard crankset.

Averaged 211w with a weighted average of 234w, 28.9kmh.

Much better than last week when I was feeling gutless.
Tarquin
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:01 pm

Will someone please explain the difference between average power and weighted average power.
Image
User avatar
singlespeedscott
 
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland


Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:19 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:Will someone please explain the difference between average power and weighted average power.


Average power is a flat average, weighted average power will give extra watts for the higher levels of power, so your sprints will be worth much more so over say a five minute period you might have an average of 100W even though you didn't pedal at all in between two 30 second efforts at 1000W, yet the weighted average will give the power from the sprint much more value, maybe it stretches those 1000W over 2 minutes maybe it will pad out the average to 250W instead.
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby GAV!N » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:54 am

I thought weighted power, was the average power of the time you actually spent putting power down (i.e. after removing any 0 power values such as times descending/freeweeling )
Scott CR1 - 105 - Mavic Kyserium equippe
Image
GAV!N
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:14 am
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:35 am

So any tips of keeping watt fluctuations down and having a constant and consistent output? I've gone through a weeks worth of different riding and I've noticed that my wattage will be jumping around without my PE changing whatsoever. That is, the current power I feel like I'm putting down isn't changing between pedal strokes.
Image
Ignoto
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:29 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:02 am

Nope. Weighted power is simply a calculation (equation) that smooths out the peaks and troughs, that attempts to provide a more useful idea of your power output. If you are doing steady state 2x20s at 300W, your weighted average within each interval should be almost the same as the average, because you aren't varying that pace. If you are riding up and down hills for 40 minutes, your power naturally goes up on the climbs to 500W and down to 150W on the descents, but your overall effort might be similar to that 300W 2x20. Perceived exertion is a reasonable predictor of this.

Ignoto, just practice a specific cadence if you're on the trainer. I don't try and maintain power, it's too hard. I try to spin at 93rpm exactly for the interval. Cadence is like an automatic 3s average, except it is never reported at 93.2 rpm or 93.7468 rpm. Makes it much easier to stay in the desired power range, because your power does report back those decimal places (its a bigger number, and more sensitive than most cadence sensors and head unit reporting). Goooood luck doing this on the open road. Sticking to your FTHR can be helpful, again slower moving targets are easier to hit.
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby kb » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:49 pm

Depends on the device too. I've noticed powertaps seem to jump around a bit less (side effect of measuring power further downstream?). I wouldn't mind trying a 5s rolling average but Garmins aren't very customisable.
Image
User avatar
kb
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:22 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby happysumo » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:24 pm

Did 5x5's with a power meter for the first time tonight.

358w
359w
358w
359w
360w

Should the average power be dropping off over the last 1 or 2 intervals, or was that pretty much spot on? HR was a fairly steady 185 throughout most of them, max I've ever hit is about 195, if that's any indication with 5m intervals...
happysumo
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:28 am

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:17 am

Long 62km session on the trainer this morning: http://www.strava.com/activities/130987890

It was long intervals varying between 83% (the 5 minute blocks) and 120% (the short 30sec spikes). On the last block I ended up putting the load up to 275w and then 300w near the end. It was tough, but okay.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 3871
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:09 pm

So is "Lap Power" on my Garmin 510 not accurate? I was doing some sharp pinch climbs this morning around Brisbane and my Lap Power on the Garmin was hovering around the 360w mark. But, looking at the lap I created on Strava, it has me at a lowly 220w average.

I can only think that Strava is counting the coasting/recovery time as 0 while my Garmin isn't?
Image
Ignoto
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:29 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:57 pm

It might be counting coasting time if you were coasting or going downhill. But Strava can be a mystery at times.
g-boaf
 
Posts: 3871
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:27 pm

My Bryton would show instant power at 200W even though I stopped pedalling. I don't think it was a zero issue, just the way it failed to demonstrate a zero.

Bear in mind that the sensors send a signal of some kind, the head unit can do whatever it likes with that info, and tbh, power is the lowest of their priorities. People buy SRM PC7's for power, they buy Garmin's for Strava, maps, speed and heart rate. Some of us are different but I don't presume to be the target market ;)
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:56 pm

Similarly my Cyclops HRM would make my garmin display 255rpm cadence when coasting. Garmin connect, Strava and Training Peaks would read it as zero.

Sent from my C2105 using Tapatalk
Cul
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby kb » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:29 pm

Ignoto wrote:I can only think that Strava is counting the coasting/recovery time as 0 while my Garmin isn't?

You're probably right. Whether to include zeroes or not is configurable. You generally want to for power and not for cadence. I believe this is what Strava does. Another clue is if average power is higher than NP, you're probably ignoring zeroes.
Image
User avatar
kb
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:22 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:49 pm

kb wrote:
Ignoto wrote:I can only think that Strava is counting the coasting/recovery time as 0 while my Garmin isn't?

You're probably right. Whether to include zeroes or not is configurable. You generally want to for power and not for cadence. I believe this is what Strava does. Another clue is if average power is higher than NP, you're probably ignoring zeroes.


Fair call. I've changed my garmin to now include the zeros and it's now producing similar results to Strava. So that fixed it.

I may need to redo my FTP test earlier than I had planned. My original base 20 minute test on the flat produced a 277 average wattage. But on a climb this morning which took me 21 minutes I had a average power of 296 :shock:

Admittedly, I find it easier to keep the power consisted and higher whilst climbing than on the flat, just without trying to push a certain wattage (more survive the 10% avg gradient) I blew out my possible FTP time.
Image
Ignoto
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:29 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Don't muck around with your FTP values based on different testing protocols. I tend to use 1 hour normalised power from races, which isn't perfect either, but it's a full hour of pain. Quite frankly, I seem to be able to inflate that figure with surges and sprinting. But then again, if I can pump out those numbers on the trainer, then why not use that? FTP testing sucks ;)
Xplora
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby thearthurdog » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:42 pm

Ignoto wrote:I may need to redo my FTP test earlier than I had planned. My original base 20 minute test on the flat produced a 277 average wattage. But on a climb this morning which took me 21 minutes I had a average power of 296 :shock:

Admittedly, I find it easier to keep the power consisted and higher whilst climbing than on the flat, just without trying to push a certain wattage (more survive the 10% avg gradient) I blew out my possible FTP time.


As you have alluded to, be cautious with the impact of climbing efforts on your FTP. Most people find it easier to hold a higher power on a climb (versus on the flat) for a lot of different reasons. I would be using your timed efforts on the flat to inform your FTP but then remember to expect a little more from yourself when climbing.
Cervelo s5
Giant Trinity Composite 1
http://www.crosswindmissile.blogspot.com.au
thearthurdog
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Le Mong » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:02 pm

Today's shenanigans.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Can't see why I'm so damn sore

http://www.strava.com/activities/131776266

Turns out corrected elevation is 3,679m hahahahah
Le Mong
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:15 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter