The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby kb » Thu May 01, 2014 6:42 pm

My guess is strava's probably using the slope of CP to estimate FTP. Counter-intuitively, higher power in shorter durations should lower the estimation. You can think of this in terms of assigning a higher anaerobic-like component to your max efforts. I agree with TTL though, try the hour and see how close you get :-)
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by BNA » Fri May 02, 2014 5:55 am

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby thearthurdog » Fri May 02, 2014 5:55 am

It's really hard to use a one hour test in training due to the psychological difficulty, because it is 'just training'. I use three things for my FTP, which I think have worked for me. 1 - the 20 minute test. 2- NP for races in the 45 minute to just over 60 minute range. 3 - CP as calculated by Golden Cheetah (which should be very similar to what Strava gives you). CP (for me I believe) is always a few % higher than my FTP. I kinda 'triangulate' those three data sources to get my number. I review when one of those three changes, but don't always necessarily go up - or down as the case was late last year :(
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Sat May 03, 2014 4:44 pm

I did 5x5 intervals today with an extra 2 tagged on at the end. It was doing that indoors or not do anything because of the nasty weather. :roll:

I did quite okay today. Certainly much better than Thursday's dismal fail. :)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Sat May 03, 2014 5:16 pm

Was hoping to get out on the MTB today but that was to no avail!..

Instead 5 x 5min ramp intervals on the trainer due to nasty weather, solid workout but still frustrated I couldn't get out on the MTB again!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Sat May 03, 2014 6:31 pm

boaf, you need to bump up your target if you can get 7 of them out now ;)

I went for a run and did some plyometrics on Friday. In front of a large group of older Pakistani/Indian locals on the play equipment. They must have found my struggle to hop over a foot high balance beam ten times quite amusing. I'm shocked how much of that natural play mechanism is gone from my childhood. Anyways, drilled myself into the ground and went to failure again. Definitely improving!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Sat May 03, 2014 6:48 pm

Yeah yeah, I know. That's what I'll do for the next time I do that. Those are at 85-90 something percent (they slowly ramp up) - so I'll see if I can handle another 25w.

I have a feeling my training might be on hold - I'm feeling like a cold might be trying to take hold. :roll: I'm keeping warm and getting plenty of sleep.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby dalai47 » Mon May 05, 2014 11:06 pm

15 minutes Z1 on the trainer... :D
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 06, 2014 1:32 am

Training was finally good today... been a long time since I felt good on a bike :D .
New 5 min PB for the year by 60 watts!. Shame the hill wasn't longer, think I could have kept well over 400w for 10 minutes today.
Still 30 or so watts off my PB ofr a couple of years ago but there was a fair bit in reserve today, fingers crossed for the weekend!.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby filip » Tue May 06, 2014 8:59 am

Yesterday 6 x 3’ x 115% FTP, 12’ x FTP, 4 x 2’ x 130% FTP for a total of 90 minutes on the trainer
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 06, 2014 10:00 am

toolonglegs wrote:Training was finally good today... been a long time since I felt good on a bike :D .
New 5 min PB for the year by 60 watts!. Shame the hill wasn't longer, think I could have kept well over 400w for 10 minutes today.
Still 30 or so watts off my PB ofr a couple of years ago but there was a fair bit in reserve today, fingers crossed for the weekend!.


Nice power! :)

Nothing for me - I'm crook at the moment and keeping off the bike .
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Tue May 06, 2014 10:05 am

So first time I've done a proper FTP training based on my FTP value; decided to do 2 x 15 minutes (planning on building to 20 minutes). I held roughly 95-100% of my FTP for both sets, but geeez it was hard doing it on a slight changing course. I was constantly changing gears to make sure I was hitting the power mark as I would find my 3 second average constantly dropping without any noticeable change in my PE!! So I think I may go and do FTP intervals on an open Crit rather than an open road!

Anyway, does cadence speed come into play when doing FTP work? I was finding it easier to hit my power mark when I was pushing a larger gear at 80-84 cadence than a lower gear at 94+.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Tue May 06, 2014 10:39 am

Ignoto, I have found pushing a higher gear slower is much easier to stay steady - but if you think about it, you are going to be more stable in the saddle, you'll be pushing more consistently through the stroke - it makes sense that you will be better at the higher gear; BUT we are making assumptions about your fast twitch/slow twitch muscle combinations. You might be a grinder, not a spinner. Realistically, you really need to do some of your FTP work at 95-105rpm just to ensure you aren't missing the benefits of 100rpm threshold efforts during the race. Maybe just spend a month grinding away and then kick up the cadence once you've had some more practice in that particular zone.

Consider some core strength work if you don't do any. Helps you stay stable on the bike a lot more.

Nice work guys. More jogging and plyo work for me. Doc has referred for a cortisone injection for bursitis on the sit bone; at least a chance to resolve it!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 06, 2014 3:36 pm

Just find what cadence works for you... I am a "grinder" I suppose you could say. TT bike max efforts usually float around the 75-85 range... Do feel I make a bit more power spinning one gear lower but it's a hard habit to break. When I am flying on climbs up 10-15 minutes long I find I am quickest when alternating between sitting and standing, but in both positions I am still in a big gear ( 55-75 rpm ) ... Just works for me.
Normal riding sees me sitting around 85 rpm +/- a couple. But then in a crit I have no trouble spinning out of corners at 130. As long as the power is up I don't care too much :-) .
FTP intervals are hard but shouldn't kill you. You 2nd effort should be pretty much the same as the first. Just get used to the pacing ... I must admit I have done very few long intervals this year. Haven't felt great, the only 20 min intervals I have done have been tests and I couldn't have done another after!. Hopefully yesterday's feelings carry on!.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Tue May 06, 2014 4:24 pm

Xplora wrote:you'll be pushing more consistently through the stroke - it makes sense that you will be better at the higher gear;


That's a fair observation and definitely something I'm placing an emphasis on. I'm really trying to keep the power fluctuations down so that I can be more consistent. It's something I've noticed I struggle with doing on the flats, but on an incline, the variations only fluctuate between 10-30 watts, not 80+.

toolonglegs wrote:Normal riding sees me sitting around 85 rpm +/- a couple. But then in a crit I have no trouble spinning out of corners at 130.


Sounds like we're fairly similar TLL, except I can't quite get the cadence up to 130 without feeling like I'm going to take off ;)

Both intervals were only 4 watts different, the later interval being at a higher average, but I put that down to a pacing issue. So I'm happy with the session overall. Strava is telling me my training load was 107 with an intensity of 75% (only a 51km ride which outside of some warm up sprints, only had FTP work), does this seem correct? I was factoring in needing 36 - 48 hours of recovery after doing FTP sessions?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 06, 2014 4:50 pm

How have you set your ftp? ... it will get more accurate the more you test it. You get a pretty good idea after a while.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Le Mong » Tue May 06, 2014 9:54 pm

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby dalai47 » Tue May 06, 2014 11:19 pm

Jealous of what you all are doing! But happy once again to turn the legs over for another 15 minutes of Z1 on the trainer...

Now 6 days since getting the shoulder plated; still pain and twinges whilst riding easy upright but at least turning the legs over again!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Wed May 07, 2014 8:45 am

toolonglegs wrote:How have you set your ftp? ... it will get more accurate the more you test it. You get a pretty good idea after a while.


Testing wise;
1 x 20 minute blind test; simply went off feel and HR.
1 x 20 minute climb (wasn't an ideal gradient, was upwards of 10% average :cry: )
1 x 30 minute flat test based on the numbers I got.

The numbers I got for my 20 minute climb and 30 minute flat test are about the same. Don't get me wrong, those are far from correct and I'm definitely more astute of how to do a test after my 30 minute test. A 60 minute test may occur somewhere down the line, just don't have the patience for a training session of it!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Wed May 07, 2014 9:34 am

Racing is training - 45 minute crit last night. First time riding with a 53! I liked it :)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Thu May 08, 2014 5:08 pm

Xplora wrote:Racing is training - 45 minute crit last night. First time riding with a 53! I liked it :)


Good one! :)

My chest and lungs seem to have cleared up a bit and I'm feeling better as a result. I'm still not breathing 100% - but the virus or whatever it was seems to be going. :)

Since it was so warm this afternoon I went out and put in 107km with 1127m elevation:

http://app.strava.com/activities/138763075

Didn't expect any KOMs - certainly not that particular one. :shock: It was just nice to be doing something else other than coughing non-stop loudly enough to keep the entire neighbourhood awake.
Last edited by g-boaf on Thu May 08, 2014 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Thu May 08, 2014 9:09 pm

Tied with the Spiz on the short climb, nice :)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Fri May 09, 2014 10:17 am

So VO2 work this morning - orginally I wanted to do 4 x (6 x 30/30) which would have been 12 minutes of working time. In the past I had been doing 3 x (4 x 45/15) + 1 x (5 x 30/30), but I wanted to change things up. But by the end of the third set I was shagged, even tried an elongated recovery time but that didn't help things.

Anyway, reviewing the sets I noticed that I'm spiking a lot during the intervals and it's not a progressive curve down in loss of power over the duration of the set. For example
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Is this ok? Or should I be really striving to keep a more natural slope downwards?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby boss » Fri May 09, 2014 5:14 pm

Some talk about Strava's FTP...

I'm in the same category as the fella before... Strava calc FTP is higher than 20-30 minute efforts that I've done. Best 20min is 268w and Strava says FTP is 281w.

I could probably get near 280w for 20min but unlikely to get anywhere near holding that for 50-60 mins.

The oddest thing is that I have an overlayed CP curve for a previous time period that is pretty much superior across the entire range from 0-30 mins and exactly the same from 30-60 (had a honeymoon break and lost lots of fitness) and for that previous period it says FTP is 273w, with actual best 20 min effort of 270w.

Weird!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Le Mong » Fri May 09, 2014 5:54 pm

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So then this happened....
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri May 09, 2014 7:10 pm

^^^ awesoooooome
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