The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby g-boaf » Thu May 15, 2014 10:17 am

I did strength training yesterday and backed it up this morning with some 3x 20min intervals at 85% FTP@100rpm with various 120% spikes in there. (FTP at 300w) and a warmup with some 120% spikes and a 3min bit at FTP.

I didn't handle it that well - my legs felt really tired. I got through it but not with nice steady power today. It's a rest day tomorrow and I'm looking forward to that. Might have to change up the plan and put a day in between the two.

Ignoto wrote: So how does everyone incorporate being at 85-90% of the FTP on their rides?


Umm, yeah - that's a good question, it's more difficult to do that on the road with traffic interruptions and the like. I think it's easier on rollers/trainers.
Last edited by g-boaf on Thu May 15, 2014 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby dalai47 » Thu May 15, 2014 10:27 am

march83 wrote:2x20s on rollers.


May I ask what rollers you use? I have two sets but don't find the resistance high enough to ride near FTP...
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby march83 » Thu May 15, 2014 12:55 pm

tacx antares with heavy training wheels, heavy old tyres and low pressures (like 70-80psi). last night i was doing vo2max work around 420-430W at 95-100rpm in 53x11.

for cheap and nasty rollers, even with low tyre pressures and crappy tyres, they still feel quite lively and responsive and they keep me interested better than a mag/fluid trainer
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Thu May 15, 2014 1:37 pm

Ignoto wrote: So how does everyone incorporate being at 85-90% of the FTP on their rides?


I’m lucky (unlucky?) enough to live in a pretty flat area, miles of flat road with minimal elevation variation or traffic.

That said I use the trainer for a lot of this stuff; I’m currently using an Elite Crono Elestogel Fluid trainer.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Thu May 15, 2014 1:52 pm

I find the Allan/Coggan training rides to be quite useful to sort that out, Ignoto. THey basically say "go do a 2-3 hour ride at tempo, and do your 2x20/6x6/sprints at the end". 2-3 hours might be a bunch ride, which keeps it interesting, and maybe you do your intervals when you ride home from the coffee shop, or on the way to the ride. Worst case, maybe you jump on the rollers for 45 minutes when you get the bike home?

We certainly need to liberate ourselves from the idol of HIIT as being the only way to skin the cat. Yes, it is the best way to develop, but you might not want to obsessively restrict yourself to only being on the rivet after a warmup for 45 minutes before a cooldown. Maybe you could find a nice loop that you can safely hammer out 90% power that you visit after your rides? I know a MTB guy who lives in the mountains and can do 10 minute intervals on a few different climbs, and recovers at 80kmh going back to the bottom :shock: bit of a stressful recovery, but that's cycling 8)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby dalai47 » Thu May 15, 2014 1:54 pm

Thanks march83. Once the collarbone heals and I can hold onto the bars I'll try the rollers with lower tyre pressure.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Thu May 15, 2014 2:46 pm

Xplora wrote:Maybe you could find a nice loop that you can safely hammer out 90% power that you visit after your rides?


I've been trying to find such a loop in Brisbane for some time now! Living in/around the city there's not much that flatish, looping and less than 30 minutes away (any further and I may as well go to one of the crits).
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Thu May 15, 2014 3:21 pm

I chuckle at the 30 minutes comment because I can't find people to ride with within 20 minutes of my home, and was regularly riding 25 minutes to the shop ride. I think you've got some velodrome time in your future, or you've got to expect less from your loop.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Thu May 15, 2014 3:56 pm

30 minutes living in the BNE CBD only gets me so far because of the traffic lights :P

I'm trying to play around with a few closer loops, but nothing that would allow me to continually keep riding/putting constant power out.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Thu May 15, 2014 4:03 pm

How long is the Mt Cootha climb?..

Edit, no good KOM is only 6mins.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Thu May 15, 2014 4:09 pm

Cootha isn't a bad spot, I have in the past used it for 10 minute intervals (as using my pacing I get up there in a similar time). It's a possibility to use it for SST, but I couldn't do more than 11 minutes per climb.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Thu May 15, 2014 4:09 pm

VO2 intervals on hills ... FTP on the flat, much prefer the flat for long intervals.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Fri May 16, 2014 8:46 am

So I gave some SST intervals a quick try this morning (20 minute followed by a 10 minute), nothing crazy, just wanted a feel for the pacing/power of them. It's definitely an odd sensation, the legs were getting confused at the "its not too hard, but it's not easy, so please stop doing this" sensation, while the HR and lungs were all like "don't worry brah, we got this".

Power wise, the first interval was bang on 90% (I was struggling to find the right balance that's for sure), while the second interval was around 88% of FTP. Afterwards I definitely feel a lot fresher compared to Wednesday's FTP at 100%. There was 5 minutes less work (but I had also ridden 30+kms beforehand this morning) and also 5 minutes less recovery time between the two sets this morning.

I can definitely see myself doing more of this SST type of training, its not overly taxing, just need to incorporate it somehow!

Best thing is, my Stages had 0 drop outs this morning so my average power actually matches up to my lap average on the Garmin!
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri May 16, 2014 9:05 am

Great news all around mate. I think this just about sums it up. "Train as little as possible while achieving the goal". We're culturally programmed to go waaay too hard (I know I am, anyway). Have a go at 4x10, keeping the recoveries short on your next session. The first couple are achievable, the last 15 minutes worth are the dig deep ones. The HR stops being the buffer for the paaaaaaaaaaain. But you'll have a chance at backing up and repeating a couple days later. For more paaaaaaaaain. 8)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Fri May 16, 2014 10:37 am

Cheers, it's a very interesting way of training, I've either trained at the extremes, so a high intensity for short bursts or a low intensity for a long duration. So finding that weird happy medium is oddly satisfying.

With only doing 10 minute intervals, what time of recovery period are we talking 2-3 minutes or 5? I might having Mondays as the short SST sessions with a Wednesday or Thursday being a longer duration ie 2 x 20 or 3 x 15 and increase from there.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri May 16, 2014 10:53 am

Start with 5 minutes, drop it down. If you feel like you have a lot left over, maybe do a "semi recovery" interval. I really do recommend 10 minutes instead of 20 to start with, because you can change your recoveries better to ensure you get the full 40 minutes done with more practice. My last 4x10 was 95%, 2-3 minutes between, but I was standing every 60 seconds in the final interval for 4 pumps, and I think I was recovering in zone 3 instead of z1 for a couple of recoveries. Give yourself a month to gradually reduce your recovery times and increase your target power - 2x20 is 4x10 without recoveries in between the 1,2 and 3,4 intervals, and you can reduce your 5 minute recoveries to a couple minutes as you feel capable. Maybe you add some cadence work at the end for warmdown as well? The world is your oyster. The most critical thing is that you increase your training load slowly, and that you continue to encourage adaption to avoid plateau.
End of the day, you should feel like you could have done 45 minutes instead of 40. You can sneak up your target from 88% to 90% or drop your recovery by a minute without blowing yourself up - but you might make it impossible to back up with another session later in the week if you go 88 to 93% or drop your recovery by 3 minutes.
Give it a month ;)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Fri May 16, 2014 2:22 pm

Testing day for me, can't wait to do 2 x 20mins on the trainer (second rep at 95%)!..

This will be the first actual test I have done with the powertap so keen (and nervous) to see what the 20min Power comes in at! (previously using trainer road)
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The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 16, 2014 3:10 pm

SST you should be able to do longer intervals... I can understand 4x10 2x20 etc for FTP or close to work.
But sweet spot you should be able to bang out 30-60 minutes solid.
Let us know how you go Cul :-)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Fri May 16, 2014 3:50 pm

Definitely, TLL - I think it's worth erring on the side of caution though because the FTP testing might not be perfect, and you really aren't losing much if you are base building. Bumping your 4x10 target from 88 to 90 dramatically increases your suffering, and mentally, I think it's better to hit your targets and increase them with confidence... your recent struggles have been hard on the soul, no doubt? By the time Ignoto runs out of easy gains, he'll have enough experience to sort it out himself I reckon.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 16, 2014 4:06 pm

My recent struggles :lol: ... they have been mainly down to power to weight, the power isn't too bad, the weight is. I knew I would be struggling in the field that turns up to races like that last weekend. I actually hit some power records ( for 2014 ) from 1m20 to 2m25 but it wasn't enough on the climbs even in the bunch;
Now I just need to find a new goal... normally it would be TT's starting in August but I will be working till half way through TT season. CX seems so far away to focus for!.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Fri May 16, 2014 9:22 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Let us know how you go Cul :-)


Didn't happen today; jump on the trainer and felt like crap - struggled to get past 5 mins :oops: . I might try turning the power display off next time as I think I am unconsciously pushing harder than I should be as my HR was about 5bpm higher than normal... :cry:

I'm going to go out for an actual (Z2) ride tomorrow, and then race on Sunday.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Cul » Sun May 18, 2014 9:06 pm

Cul wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Let us know how you go Cul :-)


Didn't happen today; jump on the trainer and felt like crap - struggled to get past 5 mins :oops: . I might try turning the power display off next time as I think I am unconsciously pushing harder than I should be as my HR was about 5bpm higher than normal... :cry:

I'm going to go out for an actual (Z2) ride tomorrow, and then race on Sunday.



So didn't end up doing the test this weekend; but I did go out yesterday for a solid 2hr ride with 2 x 10min climbs at 337w and 327w respectively; also raced GCC's Presidents Handicap today and picked up 4th - got boxed in on the sprint but chuffed with the weekends riding.

After a few bad results (MTB (crash) and Road(flat)) and the last 8 weeks spent mostly on the trainer I was feeling pretty down; but I am feeling much much better now :D
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Ignoto » Mon May 19, 2014 8:36 am

So, more SST work this morning. The legs were feeling surprisingly fresh compared to last Monday (similar amount of work during the week with a race).

Anyway, 4 x 10 minutes as Xplora suggested; FTP values were slightly higher than I wanted, but I was having trouble getting into a rhythm based on the new circuit. Anyway, it ended up being 89%, 87%, 88%, 91% for the four seperate intervals. I have to admit, I am a fan of 10 minute pieces, before you know it, you're at the 5 minute mark and you can tell yourself you're over half way done!

With working at SST/FTP does every minute count or is it more of a consistent approach where you need to somewhat fatigue yourself. IE, can I squeeze 5 or 10 minutes at SST pace on my commutes to help me spend more time at this level? Or do I need to be doing 10+ minute intervals repeated to gain the benefit?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby Xplora » Mon May 19, 2014 1:06 pm

That's a good question... I think the key is that intervals are kept short enough to keep the quality high for the duration without causing excessive trauma. I think you'd be better off just riding tempo for your commute and keep the intervals specific to your loop where you know it is safe to do it. A commute isn't designed to have long stretches of 20 minutes without stopping.
Good on you for hitting the targets sounds like you smashed it out of the park. :)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc

Postby anttismo » Tue May 20, 2014 9:34 am

Had a great ride this morning. Not training for anything specifically as such, but headed off and felt toppy-top. Headed out around eltham and kangaroo ground here in melb, then looped back over mount dandenong. 112 kms, a bit under 2000m elevation gain, just over 4 hrs, avg power 260W, normailsed power 310W, which translates to about 85% intensity for me. Felt strong all the way home, so pretty happy with all that :)
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