The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

you cannot be sirrus
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:55 pm

An hour in HR Z1 and 2 this morning. Mainly on a shared path, so nice and quiet at 6 am. Used the time to work on pedal stroke and listening to an annoying noise from the bike.
Pulled the crankset and pedals apart last weekend which hasn't solved it. Time to look elsewhere. Aaaggghhh.
Kuota Kharma,Fuji Altamira, Scott Foil, mongrel of an Orbea TT bike and an MTB thingy.

thatmdee
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Newcastle

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby thatmdee » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:17 pm

I have just finished my first week of General Build (TrainerRoad) after having bumped my FTP to 229w. I think I managed all workouts fine (but did notice increased difficulty), except for Spanish Needle -- which consists of sets of 15 seconds at 150% FTP, followed by 15 seconds rest.

I found I had to follow the advice of backpedaling, and did so 3 times during each set. Toward the end I lowered the intensity to 95%, which I should have done earlier.

I found with the microbursts, at times, I was struggling to hold 105+ RPM, which would have offloaded the stress from muscles to aerobic system. I felt okay mentally, but physically failed. In the last couple of seconds of each microburst, my legs would just 'give in', and I didn't feel like I had the physical strength to maintain the target power.

I did notice my breathing was quite fine though? I need to try some workouts, but it seems my aerobic system (possibly) isn't my current ceiling / limiter, but muscle strength is.. Would this make sense after having finished Sweet Spot Base and concentrating on workouts at just below threshold, with not much in the way of VO2max or anaerobic intervals?

Here is the workout: https://www.trainerroad.com/career/that ... ish-needle

It's definitely an area I need to work on.. And I hope more similar efforts in the coming weeks will see an improvement. I'm also wondering if I should, on recovery days, look at some low power, high cadence drills to try and learn to maintain higher cadences so I can offset muscle stress.

EDIT: I did Baird +6, which is sets of VO2max intervals (120% FTP) for 1:30, with 1 minute recovery.. Managed those fine (challenging, but I didn't bail).. So I guess my issue above was a combination of fatigue, cadence too low, and higher efforts being a weakness, which I need to work on. I was a little worried maybe my FTP was set too high?.. But my FTP was a solid steady-state 20 minute effort, so I'm assuming not.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:11 pm

I did do a trainer ride start of this week, 5x5 at low RPM. 85km on Wednesday night and usual 105km loop today. My legs didn't feel too great today, but my speed uphill was decent enough so I won't complain about that.

cerb
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:37 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby cerb » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:46 pm

I've been doing the 'Tour of Watopia' on Zwift for the past few weeks, which is 7 stages of racing to cover most of the Zwift online world. Last night's was the last stage and it was around the 'pretzel' course which is 72km and 1336m of virtual suffering.

I aimed to go hard and stick with the front runners until the hill at around the 9km mark, ride tempo for the ~20min climb, descend then push hard for the 25km of flats (with a couple of short 4min climbs). There was then another ~25min ascent where I planned to ride tempo and then push hard on the 9km of flats to the finish.

I ended up going up the first climb a bit faster than planned, mostly because I was feeling good and was spurred on by having a lot of people around. Went across the top of the first hill in 24th. However, I was then basically solo as a lot of the people near me were lightweights and just sat on me across the flats.

I knew I was overcooked by the 1h30mark and realized I hadn't been taking on much water or food, so smashed a full water bottle & ate a PB&J sandwich I'd pre-prepared.

Ended up having cooked legs for the final climb and just riding a recovery pace. I started the climb in 20th, but lost a lot of places and was 55th over the top. I took a few places back on the flat run to the finish and still managed a 650W kick to the line.

All up, finishing in 53rd for the stage with P(avg)=277W and NP=290W for 2h20mins. A pretty solid session accruing 161TSS!

Looking into the competition, there were only 4 people ahead of me that were near my weight range and only one heavier than me, so pretty happy with my climbing overall!

Over all 7 stages, i'm at 595th out of 18k ish people who attempted any stage, and 5000 of those people finished all 7 stages. This 'tour' has been a good way to get me to ride some hills for once and has been good fun (with a healthy side of suffering)....

If you missed it this year, suggest you try the next tour Zwift do!


edit: updated with final positions / finishers
Last edited by cerb on Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:50 pm

Going fairly decently. After some saddle related troubles that I think I've solved, I'm doing consistently big rides, going quicker.

User avatar
foo on patrol
Posts: 6320
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:02 pm

My training is frustrating at the moment. :( Legs were pretty good yesterday with some good efforts and then this morning they were crap. Glutes felt like they had big balls of knotted muscle and the quads just wouldn't free up. :evil:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image

cerb
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:37 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby cerb » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:16 am

Been sick for more than a week. Did an easy 45min session on Saturday, still a bit congested. Felt ok, but was lacking oxygen!

Feeling much better today, so hopefully back to it tonight. :)

thatmdee
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Newcastle

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby thatmdee » Tue May 01, 2018 7:52 am

Failed an FTP test today, half way through the General Build phase (TrainerRoad) :(

My last FTP test was 229w around 4 weeks ago. My pacing strategy was to aim for a 2% increase = ~233w FTP.. So, for the 20 minute interval, I went for 233 / 0.95 = ~245w average.

I ended up bailing quite early, only around 5 minutes into the 20 minute interval. I'm not 100% sure why or what it was. I had a slight niggling pain on the inside of my left knee, and just didn't 'feel it' in my legs and mentally gave up. Pretty disappointed.

I'm assuming rather than rest, test again, and throw out the rest of the schedule, I should just press on and continue doing the workouts at 229w?

I remember on a TrainerRoad podcast I listened to a little while ago, they mentioned if you tested lower than a prior test (I'm not sure about completely bailing), to not lower your FTP result unless you have noticed a decrease in performance, as this tends to be detectable before you retest lower.. i.e. keep your FTP the same, as it was likely just a 'bad day'.. Up until now, I've nailed nearly all the workouts with my FTP at 229w.. The only exception being, I lowered the intensity down on workouts with microbursts (15 seconds on at around 150% FTP, 15 seconds off).

I'm assuming I should follow the same approach by keeping my current FTP at 229w, and just see how I go with the workouts over the coming 3 weeks?

you cannot be sirrus
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Tue May 01, 2018 10:43 am

thatmdee wrote:
I'm assuming I should follow the same approach by keeping my current FTP at 229w, and just see how I go with the workouts over the coming 3 weeks?


I would stick with previous FTP and retest again in a few weeks. Everyone has a bad day now and again.
I did an FTP test on Saturday, different test protocol and route from previous and my head wasn't in it. Thankfully the numbers were good as analysed in WKO4.
I've found Strava estimated FTP reasonably accurate in the past, although I'm no longer a premium member so can't use it as a guide anymore.
Kuota Kharma,Fuji Altamira, Scott Foil, mongrel of an Orbea TT bike and an MTB thingy.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 01, 2018 12:09 pm

thatmdee wrote:Failed an FTP test today, half way through the General Build phase (TrainerRoad) :(

My last FTP test was 229w around 4 weeks ago. My pacing strategy was to aim for a 2% increase = ~233w FTP.. So, for the 20 minute interval, I went for 233 / 0.95 = ~245w average.

I ended up bailing quite early, only around 5 minutes into the 20 minute interval. I'm not 100% sure why or what it was. I had a slight niggling pain on the inside of my left knee, and just didn't 'feel it' in my legs and mentally gave up. Pretty disappointed.

I'm assuming rather than rest, test again, and throw out the rest of the schedule, I should just press on and continue doing the workouts at 229w?

I remember on a TrainerRoad podcast I listened to a little while ago, they mentioned if you tested lower than a prior test (I'm not sure about completely bailing), to not lower your FTP result unless you have noticed a decrease in performance, as this tends to be detectable before you retest lower.. i.e. keep your FTP the same, as it was likely just a 'bad day'.. Up until now, I've nailed nearly all the workouts with my FTP at 229w.. The only exception being, I lowered the intensity down on workouts with microbursts (15 seconds on at around 150% FTP, 15 seconds off).

I'm assuming I should follow the same approach by keeping my current FTP at 229w, and just see how I go with the workouts over the coming 3 weeks?


Stay with 229w for the moment.

Try and keep working at that until you can do those sprint workouts at the planned intensity.

User avatar
ft_critical
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:06 pm
Location: watching the 11
Contact:

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby ft_critical » Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 pm

I think you have to be mentally fresh (physically fresh too) before the FTP test. If you do it right at the end of the training block it is easy to crack.
Try a couple of easy days and give it another go, when you feel ready to hurt yourself.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 01, 2018 9:37 pm

I just did a quick 5x5 trainer ride in 45 minutes tonight. Didn't feel like going out on the bike proper.

thatmdee
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Newcastle

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby thatmdee » Thu May 03, 2018 2:12 pm

g-boaf wrote:Stay with 229w for the moment.

Try and keep working at that until you can do those sprint workouts at the planned intensity.


That seems to make sense.. Thanks.. I did another VO2max interval workout today (three sets of 2.5 min on, 2.5 min off) and struggled. I completed it, but it was difficult.. So I think, at least for VO2max intervals, I'm happy with where my FTP is set.. I'll see shortly if there's any improvement with 150% intervals.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 08, 2018 9:13 am

thatmdee wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Stay with 229w for the moment.

Try and keep working at that until you can do those sprint workouts at the planned intensity.


That seems to make sense.. Thanks.. I did another VO2max interval workout today (three sets of 2.5 min on, 2.5 min off) and struggled. I completed it, but it was difficult.. So I think, at least for VO2max intervals, I'm happy with where my FTP is set.. I'll see shortly if there's any improvement with 150% intervals.



You'd be ready to up the FTP when you are feeling like you can do the toughest workouts with no drama and maybe even thinking of doing them at a slightly higher FTP.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Wed May 16, 2018 10:15 pm

Hmm, 110km planned tonight. It was average 11ºC. Ended up with 60km instead. It's starting to get colder now.

Still zipping along decently after a decent trainer ride yesterday.

you cannot be sirrus
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Thu May 17, 2018 2:44 pm

g-boaf wrote:Hmm, 110km planned tonight. It was average 11ºC. Ended up with 60km instead. It's starting to get colder now.

Still zipping along decently after a decent trainer ride yesterday.


Positively balmy. Had 2 hours yesterday morning before work. Ave 5C Min 2C. Brrrrr.
Kuota Kharma,Fuji Altamira, Scott Foil, mongrel of an Orbea TT bike and an MTB thingy.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:34 pm

Two trainer rides yesterday rather than going out in cold and windy conditions.

Did a short ride this morning and another trainer ride tonight to try out a session I built in perfpro.

My training isn't particularly structured at the moment but it seems to be working okay.

trowland2
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 11:34 am

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby trowland2 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:04 pm

Did my first century a few days ago! The first 50km were quite easy and I kept the pace quite high, however I hit a bit of a wall around the 70km mark. The ride ended up being 119km and overall I am extremely happy with it. Hopefully there will be many more centuries to come in the future!

you cannot be sirrus
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:45 am

trowland2 wrote:Did my first century a few days ago! The first 50km were quite easy and I kept the pace quite high, however I hit a bit of a wall around the 70km mark. The ride ended up being 119km and overall I am extremely happy with it. Hopefully there will be many more centuries to come in the future!


Awesome. I still remember my first century ride. Something very special about them.
Kuota Kharma,Fuji Altamira, Scott Foil, mongrel of an Orbea TT bike and an MTB thingy.

march83
Posts: 744
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby march83 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:43 am

Club 40km TT on the weekend. 364W for 56mins (AT) 41.9km/h.

A little slower than I had hoped - I haven't had a particularly consistent run for the past few weeks, I've been stressed out of my head and I had a crappy sleep the night before. I need to spend some money to make my TT bike a little slipperier and I need to get myself better organised so I can train, sleep and de-stress.

Hoping to get to Calga in the next few months with a few less kilos on board, with a slicker bar combo and a rear disk. If I can run 360-370W and the air pressure is not too high I can go <1hr for the 43km course.
Image

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:24 pm

I feel like I'm getting quicker - but I can't really judge Tacx Neo against a computrainer, the two seem way different.

I'm doing 3x10min intervals with 10 minutes set as 5% gradients. I seem to be covering more elevation at a higher speed, power is going up as well. Seems to be corresponding to my actual rides as well.

Doing plenty of commute riding now too and I'm starting to eat a bit better as well.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:50 pm

Commute rides all week, no trainer rides but 75km yesterday and 104km today, and short 40km on Monday.

Nice surprise to be hitting power bests today. 8) But very cold and very windy even around midday.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:24 pm

3x10min and 2x 3x12min intervals this week. The twelves are basically the same as the ten minute intervals, just two minutes longer and with two minutes less rest in between the blocks.

you cannot be sirrus
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:10 am

First Tabata session yesterday. They aren't much fun, are they?
Had 3 sets of 13reps. 30 on, 15 off. Missed 3 reps but was close to throwing up a couple of times but they were kinda interesting.
Kuota Kharma,Fuji Altamira, Scott Foil, mongrel of an Orbea TT bike and an MTB thingy.

g-boaf
Posts: 9566
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:23 pm

you cannot be sirrus wrote:First Tabata session yesterday. They aren't much fun, are they?
Had 3 sets of 13reps. 30 on, 15 off. Missed 3 reps but was close to throwing up a couple of times but they were kinda interesting.


They sound immensely enjoyable. :lol: I've heard of them, but haven't tried them myself.

I did 3x13min intervals today - 65rpm cadence (13 minutes on, 3 minutes rest). I thought I was going to fail at the start of the last one but actually managed alright and got through it.

Gradually working up to 3x20min.

I'm looking at where I'll be riding shortly and there are some pretty huge climbs, Col de la Bonette is one of them. It doesn't have anything that looks extremely steep, max looks to be about 9%, but it is long and goes up high.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users