Cycle Ops Power Tap

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Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby CoffsGal » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:26 pm

Just after a bit of advice on PowerTap hubs please...

After reading numerous posts here re using PT to assist in training efforts, I have been considering whether my riding might benefit from its use. I have a friend who has a PT SL2.4 for sale...in a Mavic OpenPro wheel and with HR strap...the wheel and the PT have done 3000km and looks in excellent condition...he is asking $1999.

I have also seen another PT on the net for $1500 that also has Mavic OpenPros both front and back wheels...PT has done app 3000km...wheels have done 10,000km.

Do these prices sound reasonable?

How reliable and robust are the PT systems? Do they need attention or repair on a regular basis?

Emma
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by BNA » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:57 pm

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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby snedden9485 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:57 pm

I know you can get decent prices on PT systems online. I spoke to a guy the other day at racing and he was running one (cycleops i think - yellow computer). He had a wired one and it cost him around $600 US and that was with a wheel, PT hub and computer. I think the wired ones are abit cheaper. SOmething to check out, im sure TLL has mentioned the web site before.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:59 pm

Yeah try ... www.cyclepowermeters.com/ ...but give them a ring and ask for the best price they can do.Postage for systems is free.Talk to Bob I think.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:00 am

snedden9485 wrote:I know you can get decent prices on PT systems online. I spoke to a guy the other day at racing and he was running one (cycleops i think - yellow computer). He had a wired one and it cost him around $600 US and that was with a wheel, PT hub and computer. I think the wired ones are abit cheaper. SOmething to check out, im sure TLL has mentioned the web site before.

US$600 would be a wired system. Wireless are not that cheap when new.

I doubt Bob Tobin at cyclepowermeters.com would do free postage to Australia.

things to consider:

The most important elements in a power meter are:
- quality of the data
- reliability

everything else is a feature (e.g. less weight, wireless, HR strap, ANT+ compatability, ceramic bearings). Wired models will eventually be phased out I expect.

The lowest priced wired PT models provide exactly the same level of data quality and reliability as the most expensive models costing 4 times as much. It's then a matter of whether the additional features are worth the extra money to you.

My 2 wired PTs are into their 5th season and working just fine.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby DanielS » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:21 pm

I bought a powertap comp (wired) built into a DT RR 1.1 rim a few weeks ago. I bought it from excelsports.com, it was $659 USD + postage, which came to about $950 AUD total - meaning it escaped the customs fees 8)

I think competitivecyclist.com were/are doing them for the same price, but the postage was a bit higher.

Will finally get around to installing it and setting it up this week.... I look forward to annoying my friends with endless discussion of various TLAs.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby CoffsGal » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:35 pm

DanielS wrote:I bought a powertap comp (wired) built into a DT RR 1.1 rim a few weeks ago. I bought it from excelsports.com, it was $659 USD + postage, which came to about $950 AUD total - meaning it escaped the customs fees 8)

That is a great price, but I notice the wireless models are a lot dearer. If I do decide to get a PT, I would prefer the wireless variety, but purchasing it OS will mean it will exceed the magic $1000 mark and attract import duty and GST.

The second hand local items I have seen are both wireless SL models which are the higher end models, so at $1500 or so they might be a good deal.

Thanks for the feedback ppl...

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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:01 pm

Postage is free worldwide from www.cyclepowermeters.com when you buy a complete system.
Looking at about Au$1500 for a Pro+ complete system...yes you will possibly get stung for GST but that 10% extra will give you a 1 year warranty...I had to send my SL+ back after 2000km.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby snedden9485 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:02 pm

WHen running the PT hubs, eg the wired model. What happens when you are running different wheels (eg for racing) in terms of your data? By this i mean, does this system still run a front wheel magnet so you can still have speed, HR etc when not running the PT hub.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:35 pm

snedden9485 wrote:WHen running the PT hubs, eg the wired model. What happens when you are running different wheels (eg for racing) in terms of your data? By this i mean, does this system still run a front wheel magnet so you can still have speed, HR etc when not running the PT hub.

You mean riding with a non PT wheel?

You can use the wired PT CPU as a regular cyclo-computer but you'll need a magnet placed on a rear spoke to pass near by the pick up mounted on the rear stay. You need to put the CPU into cyclo-computer mode (and back again when using the PT wheel). For a wireless model, you'd need a separate speed sensor.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby snedden9485 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:01 pm

Yeah thats what i meant sorry Alex. So when you run your race wheels, you just put a magnet in the rear wheel and you have the normal computer function, just without the power readings.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby nimm » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:26 pm

oh good to know, thanks
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:33 pm

Hi, I have got a question as well. Does wired model (pt comp) have HR function? Cycleops website says it does, strap should be purchased separately. I just dont see how wired unit can have wireless HR strap running :shock:
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:11 am

Optimus Verto wrote:Hi, I have got a question as well. Does wired model (pt comp) have HR function? Cycleops website says it does, strap should be purchased separately. I just dont see how wired unit can have wireless HR strap running :shock:

It can pick up a HR signal from a normal HR strap. Just the lower cost models they don't supply a HR strap.
Don't need a HR strap anyway when you have power.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:15 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It can pick up a HR signal from a normal HR strap


Interesting, it must be that shark fin looking thing being receiver instead of head unit.

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Don't need a HR strap anyway when you have power


I suppose :roll:, if I was a mechanism then power measurement would be the ultimate indicator of everything including wear and tear. I would think that HR can give you a decent view on the state of your health under certain load or output :D .If I get PT I would definitely add HR strap to it.

On the HR theme, may be silly question, but have to be asked. Is possible to view all data (output, HR, cadence, elevation would be nice :lol: ) on a single graph?
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby twizzle » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:31 am

The 'wired' computer is a combo wired/wireless. It has wired hub + cadence, but also connects to ANT+ HR, cadence & speed. The PowerTap and Garmin HR straps are identical, but the PowerTap doesn't recognise the Garmin GS10 speed/cadence.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:53 am

twizzle wrote:The 'wired' computer is a combo wired/wireless. It has wired hub + cadence, but also connects to ANT+ HR, cadence & speed. The PowerTap and Garmin HR straps are identical, but the PowerTap doesn't recognise the Garmin GS10 speed/cadence.


Ok, it makes me wonder. So if the head unit itself is capable of communication by ANT+ signal, then we could possibly use it with wireless PT hubs. Or the signal still goes through the receiver that placed next to the hub at the back, and that receiver capable of ANT+.
I am just looking at options of future upgrades and general understanding of the device.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:51 pm

Optimus Verto wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It can pick up a HR signal from a normal HR strap


Interesting, it must be that shark fin looking thing being receiver instead of head unit.

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Don't need a HR strap anyway when you have power


I suppose :roll:, if I was a mechanism then power measurement would be the ultimate indicator of everything including wear and tear. I would think that HR can give you a decent view on the state of your health under certain load or output :D .If I get PT I would definitely add HR strap to it.

On the HR theme, may be silly question, but have to be asked. Is possible to view all data (output, HR, cadence, elevation would be nice :lol: ) on a single graph?

No, the CPU can read a HR signal, it has nothing to do with the wired connection to the stay mounted power meter pick up.
you can actually use it as a HRM if you want.

You can view all the metrics recorded by the CPU on one graph. PT CPUs don't record altitude.

So, tell me what your HRM will say about your state of health (while on a bike that is)?
A: not much. interpreting HR response is like reading tea leaves.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:14 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:So, tell me what your HRM will say about your state of health (while on a bike that is)?
A: not much. interpreting HR response is like reading tea leaves.


I think, I do get why HR is not relevant when training by power. Is it that, generally speaking, there are two methods of training one by perceived exertion and HR readings and another by using power measurement. Sorry if I am totally ignorant.

But also, would HR increase suggest that person's oxygen intake is not sufficient for current workload or workload itself is too high for given oxygen level ????

Altitude readings should give some idea of terrain when analysing recorded data.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby twizzle » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:01 pm

Optimus Verto wrote:
twizzle wrote:The 'wired' computer is a combo wired/wireless. It has wired hub + cadence, but also connects to ANT+ HR, cadence & speed. The PowerTap and Garmin HR straps are identical, but the PowerTap doesn't recognise the Garmin GS10 speed/cadence.


Ok, it makes me wonder. So if the head unit itself is capable of communication by ANT+ signal, then we could possibly use it with wireless PT hubs. Or the signal still goes through the receiver that placed next to the hub at the back, and that receiver capable of ANT+.
I am just looking at options of future upgrades and general understanding of the device.


It definitely has a receiver in the head unit. But no entry field to allow you to specify the I.D. of the powertap unit. ie. each ANT+ device appears to have a class (ie., HR, cadence, speed, power) and a serial number. There are entry fields in the wired computer for HR, speed and cadence units, but not power.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:25 pm

twizzle wrote:It definitely has a receiver in the head unit. But no entry field to allow you to specify the I.D. of the powertap unit. ie. each ANT+ device appears to have a class (ie., HR, cadence, speed, power) and a serial number. There are entry fields in the wired computer for HR, speed and cadence units, but not power.


Thanks for info.
I should just quit the dilemma of wired or wireless, doubt I can afford wireless one anyway.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby twizzle » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:33 pm

Optimus Verto wrote:
twizzle wrote:It definitely has a receiver in the head unit. But no entry field to allow you to specify the I.D. of the powertap unit. ie. each ANT+ device appears to have a class (ie., HR, cadence, speed, power) and a serial number. There are entry fields in the wired computer for HR, speed and cadence units, but not power.


Thanks for info.
I should just quit the dilemma of wired or wireless, doubt I can afford wireless one anyway.


Wired hub built into a wheel cost me $950 to my door. Because they discount the built up price, you wouldn't really save anything by the time you had it built into a wheel here if you just bought the hub kit.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:32 pm

You right, the difference in price is quite negligible when you consider cost of the wheel here. Price of PT with head unit is actually $600 :wink:

Not sure if I need that wheel. I am light weight, may consider using less spokes if it makes significant advantage. Not sure yet, and also COMP comes in 32 hole version, wonder if its possible to use it in different spokes combinations.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby twizzle » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:35 pm

Not really - you could build it as a 16 spoke, but the wheel wouldn't be strong enough. The torque is fed to the non-drive side instead of being predominantly the drive side (tight) spokes, and they make a big thing about the wheel needing to be built 3-cross to handle the torque. If you want 24 spoke, you will have to buy a (much) more expensive model.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:24 am

Optimus Verto wrote:I think, I do get why HR is not relevant when training by power. Is it that, generally speaking, there are two methods of training one by perceived exertion and HR readings and another by using power measurement. Sorry if I am totally ignorant.

But also, would HR increase suggest that person's oxygen intake is not sufficient for current workload or workload itself is too high for given oxygen level ????

Altitude readings should give some idea of terrain when analysing recorded data.

No need to apologise.

Not sure what you mean by training methods. HR, power, PE are all means by which to assess the intensity when riding but they are not training methods. Crap training is crap training no matter what you use to record it with.

Elevated HR could be the result of a multitude of factors (heat, hydration, stress, position on bike, caffeine level, other drugs, time of day, level of fatigue, altitude etc etc) besides how hard you happen to be riding.

HR can also be depressed from normal values even though you are putting out similar power when going hard. But it doesn't tell you much, other than what your HR is. HR is a reasonable general indicator of intensity (within the limitations previously described) but trying to read any more into it is taking it beyond it's appropriate use.

There is no doubt that altitude data is useful for inspecting the terrain. It doesn't really tell you much about your training though.
Where it is most useful is for doing detailed power pacing analysis for time trials and determining optimal pacing strategies.
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Re: Cycle Ops Power Tap

Postby Optimus Verto » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:55 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Not sure what you mean by training methods.


Me neither to be honest :( I am new to cycling, very new. All my knowledge on training subject is basically collection of bits and pieces from here and there, not even supported by any personal experience.
I will definitely focus on training techniques once my improvements become stagnant. So far my 50km commute performance gets better with each day.
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