Training programmes

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Training programmes

Postby giantrock » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:40 am

Just wandering for those that have gone and had a training programme done if they are actually worth it or not????? Really interested in finding out before I actually go ahead and do one....
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by BNA » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:13 pm

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Re: Training programmes

Postby aussie » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:13 pm

ive been scouring the internet for just a generalised basic training program but dont think they exist :( all i want is half an idea so i know what direction i should head
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Re: Training programmes

Postby Grant W » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:45 pm

Hell Yeah!
I have been following a program Alex on this forum has done for me and it has worked wonders, well worth it especially if you are like me and don't know a great deal about effective training.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby grosry » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:57 pm

i have just used some training programs for training methods out of a magazine... they are good enough for me :)
"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take it's place. If I quit however, it will last forever." - Lance Armstrong
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Re: Training programmes

Postby vanquishr » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:04 pm

This is my own personal experience, After cycling for many years (I'm 28) in mountain biking where I entered competition then left it for social cycling then made the jump to road which I have now been involved in semi seriously.
I recently found myself in an environment where I realised I needed to coordinate and monitor my riding to make any gains: so I read Lance Armstrong training program(Carmichael) and creating my own plans based on this then I got an indoor trainer and then a cadence/Polar hrm and started to get a real sense of acheivement and goal setting rather than just going out and smashing my body to bits every day of the week, I then entered a small competition which went well and out-rode the small club I struggled against as a direct result to this.
I have now gotten to a stage that I dont want to create my own plan and want the knowledge of others (professionals) to guide my training (also means I cant cheat myself) and so I made the commitment to spend $150 on an RST training program, 2 things I think tipped me one was I was looking at my cervelo and thought it doesnt matter if I put new 3T stem, fizik seat etc on the bike its not going to make an ounce of difference unless I spend some money on the motor. The other was the latest Bicycling Australia magazine made it quite clear the gains to be made.. Is RST the way?? I dont know yet, but what I do believe that is if you train in any sport in a methodical and montitored way its got to be better than doing what I was doing before of just riding without any routine or concentrating on my weaknesses and training in a way that betters them.

I dont know if that helps at all, but I think its cool that your looking at it
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Re: Training programmes

Postby aussie » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:20 am

vanquishr wrote:This is my own personal experience, After cycling for many years (I'm 28) in mountain biking where I entered competition then left it for social cycling then made the jump to road which I have now been involved in semi seriously.
I recently found myself in an environment where I realised I needed to coordinate and monitor my riding to make any gains: so I read Lance Armstrong training program(Carmichael) and creating my own plans based on this then I got an indoor trainer and then a cadence/Polar hrm and started to get a real sense of acheivement and goal setting rather than just going out and smashing my body to bits every day of the week, I then entered a small competition which went well and out-rode the small club I struggled against as a direct result to this.
I have now gotten to a stage that I dont want to create my own plan and want the knowledge of others (professionals) to guide my training (also means I cant cheat myself) and so I made the commitment to spend $150 on an RST training program, 2 things I think tipped me one was I was looking at my cervelo and thought it doesnt matter if I put new 3T stem, fizik seat etc on the bike its not going to make an ounce of difference unless I spend some money on the motor. The other was the latest Bicycling Australia magazine made it quite clear the gains to be made.. Is RST the way?? I dont know yet, but what I do believe that is if you train in any sport in a methodical and montitored way its got to be better than doing what I was doing before of just riding without any routine or concentrating on my weaknesses and training in a way that betters them.

I dont know if that helps at all, but I think its cool that your looking at it


Good reply... did you find Carmichaels book helpful, ive been thinking of buying it or do you think it would be better off paying for a trainer, although im not a serious rider
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Re: Training programmes

Postby sogood » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:55 am

aussie wrote:...although im not a serious rider

Expenditure should equate with one's level of seriousness. Training should be about going out and ride rather than pouring over hardwares. Joining a local club with regular rides will likely to encourage you to ride more.

At an untrained level, any riding will make a huge difference, structured or not. Even the Gong ride site has a simple training program to get people up to speed <http://www.gongride.org.au/about/training-program.asp>. Then there are heaps of info on the net and books in the library on the subject. If you find that after 3-6 months that you can be regimented about your basic plan and still have the urge to train harder, then that's the time to consider spending more serious money on equipments and coaching.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby aussie » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:14 pm

sogood wrote:
aussie wrote:...although im not a serious rider

Expenditure should equate with one's level of seriousness. Training should be about going out and ride rather than pouring over hardwares. Joining a local club with regular rides will likely to encourage you to ride more.

At an untrained level, any riding will make a huge difference, structured or not. Even the Gong ride site has a simple training program to get people up to speed <http://www.gongride.org.au/about/training-program.asp>. Then there are heaps of info on the net and books in the library on the subject. If you find that after 3-6 months that you can be regimented about your basic plan and still have the urge to train harder, then that's the time to consider spending more serious money on equipments and coaching.


what i ment when i said i wasnt serious is that im not looking at racing and not after the ultimate in training gains, however i want to be good i always have this constant desire to be the best at whatever i do and cant settle for going for a sedate cruise on my pushy, ive been a bit of a fitness freak for as long as i can remember. I also have this weird fantasy of training like a madman til i get pretty quick then start racing so everyone is looking saying who the hell is this bloke, i wanna be the darkhorse....
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Re: Training programmes

Postby sogood » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:27 pm

aussie wrote:I also have this weird fantasy of training like a madman til i get pretty quick then start racing so everyone is looking saying who the hell is this bloke, i wanna be the darkhorse....

In cycling, races are conducted under grades that match riders' abilities. From a positive angle, you are a "darkhorse", from a negative angle, you are a "thief". ;)

Seriously though, you sounded serious. Then test yourself out with a month of riding at 4-5 times a week. If you can handle the rigour, then a structured training program is for you. If you can't handle it, a structured program will soon become unstructured and money may be wasted.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby giantrock » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:34 pm

Thanks for all your input into helping me make my decision. As a female cyclist I have started riding with a great bunch of men and am really giving it a go every weekend that we ride to try and keep up the pace with them and do the whole loop with these guys and at the end of the ride I would be feeling proud and saying hey look what I just did that is right the whole loop without being dropped lol. Hills are by far my weakest point and when do you go into the big crank??? I still have soo much to learn and I really want to know only then can I go like a bull out of the gate..... I shall look into the gong training programme as sometimes they can be a great source for cyclists.....
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Re: Training programmes

Postby Grant W » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:30 am

sogood wrote:
aussie wrote:I also have this weird fantasy of training like a madman til i get pretty quick then start racing so everyone is looking saying who the hell is this bloke, i wanna be the darkhorse....

In cycling, races are conducted under grades that match riders' abilities. From a positive angle, you are a "darkhorse", from a negative angle, you are a "thief". ;)

Seriously though, you sounded serious. Then test yourself out with a month of riding at 4-5 times a week. If you can handle the rigour, then a structured training program is for you. If you can't handle it, a structured program will soon become unstructured and money may be wasted.


Unfortunatly, you'll only be the "dark horse" once, then they hunt you down. :twisted:
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Re: Training programmes

Postby sogood » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:49 am

Grant W wrote:Unfortunatly, you'll only be the "dark horse" once, then they hunt you down. :twisted:

Welcome to grade +1! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Training programmes

Postby aussie » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:05 pm

Grant W wrote:
sogood wrote:
aussie wrote:I also have this weird fantasy of training like a madman til i get pretty quick then start racing so everyone is looking saying who the hell is this bloke, i wanna be the darkhorse....

In cycling, races are conducted under grades that match riders' abilities. From a positive angle, you are a "darkhorse", from a negative angle, you are a "thief". ;)

Seriously though, you sounded serious. Then test yourself out with a month of riding at 4-5 times a week. If you can handle the rigour, then a structured training program is for you. If you can't handle it, a structured program will soon become unstructured and money may be wasted.


Unfortunatly, you'll only be the "dark horse" once, then they hunt you down. :twisted:


Theyll have to catch me first :twisted: haha i think ill just use the next couple of months to put away as many k's as i can just to make sure the feeling doesnt fade then i will definitly look at going down that path, seriously though what do people think of Carmichael's book worth the cash.

(Sorry if ive hijacked this thread by the way :oops: )
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Re: Training programmes

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:34 pm

Personally I wouldn't waste your money...someone gave me a copy and I never finished it.Was all very basic.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby twizzle » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:41 pm

The trouble with most generic programs is that they assume you have no time commitments. And they also all assume that you are working up towards some distant goal rather than being at the beginning of the race season and trying to juggle meaningful training sessions with recovery time and fatigue levels.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby Ant. » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:27 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Personally I wouldn't waste your money...someone gave me a copy and I never finished it.Was all very basic.

+1

twizzle wrote:The trouble with most generic programs is that they assume you have no time commitments. And they also all assume that you are working up towards some distant goal rather than being at the beginning of the race season and trying to juggle meaningful training sessions with recovery time and fatigue levels.

"most"
Fairly sure I don't need to say what I'm going to say next :mrgreen:

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Re: Training programmes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:36 am

For reference, our plans are not generic.

They are tailored to each rider's goals, fitness/abilities and training time availability. Even allow for up to two specific key event dates.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby twizzle » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:37 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:For reference, our plans are not generic.

They are tailored to each rider's goals, fitness/abilities and training time availability. Even allow for up to two specific key event dates.


Any recommendation on how to combine training for real gains at the same time as doing a crit and a road race every week until March? Or do professional athletes enter regular races as training exercises, ie. have a different goal to placing well and aim at specific events within the calendar?
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Re: Training programmes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:10 pm

twizzle wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:For reference, our plans are not generic.

They are tailored to each rider's goals, fitness/abilities and training time availability. Even allow for up to two specific key event dates.


Any recommendation on how to combine training for real gains at the same time as doing a crit and a road race every week until March? Or do professional athletes enter regular races as training exercises, ie. have a different goal to placing well and aim at specific events within the calendar?

Race tired and plan to have some crap race performances along the way. Use races as SST, rather than as a race.
Set some priorities. One cannot expect peak performance all the time.
Constant resting/recovery before races over several months is a sure fire way to running out of steam and to lose fitness and motivation.
Use a power meter to really understand your true workload.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby twizzle » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:51 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Race tired and plan to have some crap race performances along the way. Use races as SST, rather than as a race.
Set some priorities. One cannot expect peak performance all the time.
Constant resting/recovery before races over several months is a sure fire way to running out of steam and to lose fitness and motivation.
Use a power meter to really understand your true workload.


O.k. - the bold bit confuses me. So you are saying that weekly full-effort racing with recovery time between will actually cost fitness from starting levels? Is that in the context of someone who was at their peak at the start of the season?
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Re: Training programmes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:28 pm

twizzle wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Race tired and plan to have some crap race performances along the way. Use races as SST, rather than as a race.
Set some priorities. One cannot expect peak performance all the time.
Constant resting/recovery before races over several months is a sure fire way to running out of steam and to lose fitness and motivation.
Use a power meter to really understand your true workload.


O.k. - the bold bit confuses me. So you are saying that weekly full-effort racing with recovery time between will actually cost fitness from starting levels? Is that in the context of someone who was at their peak at the start of the season?

If you were at a peak, then eventually fitness will decline as the requirement to recover from and before races makes that happen.
If you were not at a peak, then your fitness will initially improve, then peak and then begin to decline for the same reasons.

Season planning is part of performance management.
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Re: Training programmes

Postby twizzle » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:47 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:If you were at a peak, then eventually fitness will decline as the requirement to recover from and before races makes that happen.
If you were not at a peak, then your fitness will initially improve, then peak and then begin to decline for the same reasons.

Season planning is part of performance management.


O.K. - that makes sense. Should make it interesting to see how some people go through the season, considering some of them raced all through Winter.

Now, the technical questions - given the 'standard' 7 day and 42 day thresholds for ATL & CTL, how does that actually work with individuals, ie. how can everyone's fitness/fatigue level be determined by looking over activity during the prior one and six week periods?
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Re: Training programmes

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:01 pm

twizzle wrote:Now, the technical questions - given the 'standard' 7 day and 42 day thresholds for ATL & CTL, how does that actually work with individuals, ie. how can everyone's fitness/fatigue level be determined by looking over activity during the prior one and six week periods?

How about reading up on it first? :wink:

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/ ... nager.aspx
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Re: Training programmes

Postby othy » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:02 pm

twizzle wrote:O.K. - that makes sense. Should make it interesting to see how some people go through the season, considering some of them raced all through Winter.


I thought "winter" was the season for road racing.....
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Re: Training programmes

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:51 pm

twizzle wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Race tired and plan to have some crap race performances along the way. Use races as SST, rather than as a race.
Set some priorities. One cannot expect peak performance all the time.
Constant resting/recovery before races over several months is a sure fire way to running out of steam and to lose fitness and motivation.
Use a power meter to really understand your true workload.


O.k. - the bold bit confuses me. So you are saying that weekly full-effort racing with recovery time between will actually cost fitness from starting levels? Is that in the context of someone who was at their peak at the start of the season?


I am a prime example...trained hard through winter.I was coming into form in the first races of the year (march)...I won my most important race of the year in April.But probably started peaking not long after that as thru May to mid June I was flying...but from mid June on life got in the way a bit and I certainly started to lose form by July.No sickness or anything involved,just started to find it very hard to recover between races.Also the mid summer heat was killing me and my weight was coming back.After some very hard rides /races in July I was toast and it took a few very quiet weeks in August skipping quite a few races to get me back to feeling motivated.In the last few weeks I have finally been able to lift my training load and feel good...and the thin blue line is rising again!.
As ALex has said I don't think you can hold peak form over a whole season...but it was hard for me to have aims here as having never raced in France I wasn't sure how the year was structured.
But having an exact season...unlike Oz where you can race all year actually makes it easier.Because now I have to have 5 months off racing as there isn't any!.So I can build the engine back up and kill it next year :wink: .But I will also have much clearer defined aims next year as I know now the calendar.
Things like the early season races suit me more as they are cold / wet and windy and also flatter.So I will aim to have good form right at the start of the season in March thru May,finishing with Department champs and maybe Regional champs (hopefully flattish!) .I will back off once the temps rise as the heat kills me.Maybe aim for the Etape de Tour come July.Then try and build for the races in the last 6 weeks of the season...problem with them is they aren't flat and I should be in Cat 1 by then...or maybe aim for the TT races at the same time.
Well thats the aim!.
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