How do I use training tools?

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How do I use training tools?

Postby kibnedyo » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:01 pm

Can anyone out there suggest a good web page or book I can use to help me understand the benefit of tools such as cadence measures, cycle computers, heart rate monitors in my cycle training?

I am a little over a month into a return to road cycling (580k on road) and prior to that, 1000+k on MTB. At 46 yo, I am at a point to step up to training with little more purpose. I see people around with all sorts of toys and would like to know if they serve a purpose to assessing performance/training. I guess I'm not the kind to simply churn out the same course day in day out. I like to set goals for each outing over time to improve overall performance and am at the point of applying this to my riding.

I currently have the basic Sigma computer which measures current speed, distance and time. I have lost over 5kgs and feel I climb much better but when I calculate average speed manually it is dissapointing to see average speed has only improved by about 1kmh over a 35klm hill course that inclused long flat straights, despite seeing higher speed over sections of the course. I guess I want to know how these tools work to justify purchasing them.

Can I simply read up and develop some strategies myself using these toys as monitoring/motivational aids.
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by BNA » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:37 pm

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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby ozrider » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:37 pm

Average speed is very frustrating..

Mine is 24.8 over 2600klms yet my speed is usually between 25 and 35kph depending on the conditions.

I have been tempted to reset the computer to start from scratch.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:47 pm

ozrider wrote:Average speed is very frustrating..

Mine is 24.8 over 2600klms yet my speed is usually between 25 and 35kph depending on the conditions.

I have been tempted to reset the computer to start from scratch.



i reset my spedo every ride
it still keeps the total kays but resets the trip so you can get a new average speed :)
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:51 pm

I had the same frustration and recently splurged on a Garmin Edge 305 (~$470) + SportTracks (free) + TrainingLoad plugin (free) gives me a method of evaluating effort and comparing rides.

But now I've just bought a PowerTap Comp (Wired model, <$1K delivered to Aus.) as I'm finding my HR is too variable to accurately train on and I need to minimise my time on the road for maximum benefit.


My goal at the start of the year was to get into Vets C grade by the end of the year, but my new goal is to be midfield in B grade by the end of the Summer season (March 2010).
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:05 pm

where did you get your power tap???

im still considering getting one but i dont really know that much about them
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:13 pm

USM TOM wrote:where did you get your power tap???

im still considering getting one but i dont really know that much about them


ExcelSports. Boulder, Colorado. According to UPS, my package is at Mascot with AusPost after passing through customs on Sunday.

I went for their 'wired package' but with a RR1.2 rim instead of RR1.1, and I already have a compatible HR strap from the Garmin.

It appears that the key to effective training really is being able to follow a periodisation plan but the key is to be able to measure the actual intensity of the exercise so you can track training load and recovery. What I've found from the Garmin is that currently my HR shoots up for the same perceived exertion after a couple of days of rest, so it looks like I have too much recovery and not enough intensity. The first month with the Edge showed the opposite - I was killing myself with the intensity of the rides - and it really showed with my first race performance after taking Winter off.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:07 pm

sounds awesome
i might bite the bullet and get a power meter and a RST plan instead of blowing cash on a bling bike

now i just need to find one for under 1k so i dont pay tax's :)

also do these things work on any cassette??
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:33 pm

Yep - it's all in the hub...
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:55 pm

sweet

looks like its around $1200 for the whole kit + wheel (+ import tax )
so i know what im buying next pay
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Optimus Verto » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:53 pm

twizzle wrote:But now I've just bought a PowerTap Comp (Wired model, <$1K delivered to Aus.)



Hey twizzle,

Could you please answer few questions on Powertap;

1) can you maintain a sertain power range or its too jumpy? (250-300 watts for example)
2) what software did it come with?
3) what is the connector type (usb or com)?
4) what was the delivery charge if you don't mind?

thanks in advance
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:05 am

USM TOM wrote:sounds awesome
i might bite the bullet and get a power meter and a RST plan instead of blowing cash on a bling bike

now i just need to find one for under 1k so i dont pay tax's :)

also do these things work on any cassette??

If you're in the Sydney area I am going to be renting power meters (Powertaps) as soon as I get back, and will have a package deal - 3 month power meter rental + custom training plan for ~ $400.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:20 am

Optimus Verto wrote:
twizzle wrote:But now I've just bought a PowerTap Comp (Wired model, <$1K delivered to Aus.)



Hey twizzle,

Could you please answer few questions on Powertap;

1) can you maintain a sertain power range or its too jumpy? (250-300 watts for example)
2) what software did it come with?
3) what is the connector type (usb or com)?
4) what was the delivery charge if you don't mind?

thanks in advance

Given twizzle is relatively new to power, I might jump in:

1. yes but power is by it's nature highly stochastic and much will depend upon the terrain over which you ride. it is pretty easy on a trainer to maintain a tight power band, much harder on the road. But being within a tight band is a. not necessary and b. not always desirable anyway

Here is an example from a TT effort on my road bike around Centennial Park, Sydney. This is the sort of effort where you want to maintain a reasonably consistent effort level, not withstanding that, the power will still vary quite a lot. Note however how much more the speed varies depending on the gradient (and this is a gently rolling terrain).

Image

2. Saris provide a free download software called Poweragent. It's OK but WKO+ is superior. Saris are talking about some upgrades to be introduced at some stage next year along with their new range of CPUs which would introduce some important changes to the data analysis (e.g. including normalised Power and TSS)

3. It is download cradle that the Powertap CPU snaps into, with a USB connector to connect to your PC.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:29 am

USM TOM wrote:sweet

looks like its around $1200 for the whole kit + wheel (+ import tax )
so i know what im buying next pay


Unless the exchange rate has crashed in the last week, it should come to around $950 landed, so no import duty. As I've said elsewhere - if I'd realised how cheaply I could get the wired version, I would have bough one first instead of the Garmin.

Then again, the Garmin is really cool. :)
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Optimus Verto » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:57 am

Thanks for your input Alex,

From the graph you provided, I assume its not impossible to maintain a range +/- 50 watts, by referring to it during the ride?.
I am not from Sydney. What is the surface around Central Park? Is it nice new asphalt or old concrete pedestrian path with potholes?

Cheers
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:13 pm

twizzle wrote:
USM TOM wrote:sweet

looks like its around $1200 for the whole kit + wheel (+ import tax )
so i know what im buying next pay


Unless the exchange rate has crashed in the last week, it should come to around $950 landed, so no import duty. As I've said elsewhere - if I'd realised how cheaply I could get the wired version, I would have bough one first instead of the Garmin.

Then again, the Garmin is really cool. :)


the one i was lookin at was the wireless one

is there any difference between them or is the wired one just as good??

is this the one you got?
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Wheel+Comp+Hub-DT+RR1.1+Rim+32&vendorCode=POWERTAP&major=3&minor=15
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:52 pm

USM TOM wrote:the one i was lookin at was the wireless one

is there any difference between them or is the wired one just as good??

is this the one you got?
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Wheel+Comp+Hub-DT+RR1.1+Rim+32&vendorCode=POWERTAP&major=3&minor=15


Yep, I ordered the Comp wired. It's actually lighter than the Elite wireless. Without reading all the manuals, as the price goes up you get less weight and more displayed on the head unit. Personally, I can't see point in paying four times as much for 200g in weight savings and a wire-free look. As I run tubeless for race, I'll probably get a second hub built into a Deep-V rim to use as a training wheel and a spare in case I "do a TLL".
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:54 pm

Optimus Verto wrote:Thanks for your input Alex,

From the graph you provided, I assume its not impossible to maintain a range +/- 50 watts, by referring to it during the ride?.
I am not from Sydney. What is the surface around Central Park? Is it nice new asphalt or old concrete pedestrian path with potholes?

Cheers

+/- 50W is a pretty big range.
CP is pretty standard asphalt, reasonable condition. Road surface really isn't the issue - it's effort level and gradient variance (and gusts) that tend to bring greater variance to power. but some variance is not a bad thing.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:31 pm

twizzle wrote:
USM TOM wrote:the one i was lookin at was the wireless one

is there any difference between them or is the wired one just as good??

is this the one you got?
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Wheel+Comp+Hub-DT+RR1.1+Rim+32&vendorCode=POWERTAP&major=3&minor=15


Yep, I ordered the Comp wired. It's actually lighter than the Elite wireless. Without reading all the manuals, as the price goes up you get less weight and more displayed on the head unit. Personally, I can't see point in paying four times as much for 200g in weight savings and a wire-free look. As I run tubeless for race, I'll probably get a second hub built into a Deep-V rim to use as a training wheel and a spare in case I "do a TLL".



sweet thanks for your help buddy
i think im going to order one of them 8)

its just a training tool so like you i dont care about weight and when i do start racing i'l just buy another wheelset
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Optimus Verto » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:45 pm

Thanks Simon, I am really fascinated with ability to measure power (work) output. Not so much for training purposes but just general appreciation of the type of data :)
Since I found out of existence of cycling power meters I cannot justify any dollar for basic cyclocomputers, apart HR and may be altitude thing. Cadence is ok but its pointless without effort measurement. that is my personal opinion not to flame please.
I really hate to see my speed drop when I hit head wind :twisted: its like why the hell I am not going fast LOL So it would be nice to see the result of my effort at least on the screen...
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:40 pm

WOO WHO

just laid down $980 on a powertap and DT 1.1 rim :)

ordered it from competitive cyclist
now to wait for the postman lol and then get a training plan 8)
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Optimus Verto » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:56 pm

USM TOM wrote:WOO WHO

just laid down $980 on a powertap and DT 1.1 rim :)

ordered it from competitive cyclist
now to wait for the postman lol and then get a training plan 8)


Awesome!!! power is all that counts :D

I am thinking on getting it on its own (without the wheel). Cant really decide. Difference between wheeled one and not is $300 aud and to make it more complicated PT COMP comes only in 32 hole version.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:59 pm

Optimus Verto wrote:I am thinking on getting it on its own (without the wheel). Cant really decide. Difference between wheeled one and not is $300 aud and to make it more complicated PT COMP comes only in 32 hole version.


No, difference between wheel and not is about $100 US. Bare hub is without electro-pack.
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby Optimus Verto » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:09 pm

Not for the argument, but hub and electropack on their own is $500 I believe, Wheeled one $660 + difference in delivery charge is almost $100, exchange from usd to aud takes it to $300 mark. Although if you need decent wheel, wheeled option saves future delivery charge.

Twizzle, How do you find riding with PT?
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby USM TOM » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:13 pm

Optimus Verto wrote: Although if you need decent wheel, wheeled option saves future delivery charge.



well im running bottom of the line shimano's so i though i may aswell get a new wheel for some bling 8)
not buying a new front wheel yet though
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Re: How do I use training tools?

Postby twizzle » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:54 pm

Optimus Verto wrote:Not for the argument, but hub and electropack on their own is $500 I believe, Wheeled one $660 + difference in delivery charge is almost $100, exchange from usd to aud takes it to $300 mark. Although if you need decent wheel, wheeled option saves future delivery charge.

Twizzle, How do you find riding with PT?


Hub is $499.99. Hub plus Electro is $599.95. Hub built into a wheel plus Electro is $659.

And mine hasn't arrived yet, it's in Sydney somewhere - I specified a PO box delivery, and it made it to Australia before they decided they couldn't do that. :evil: Hopefully sorted now, so should arrive Friday or Tuesday.
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