Cardio and Weight Training

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Cardio and Weight Training

Postby peter » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:06 pm

I was wondering for the purpose of losing weight is it a good thing to mix weight training into daily cardio exercise? I try to make it to the gym 5 days a week, I usually do 40 minutes of cardio and 40 minutes of weight on Mon/Wed/Fri, 60 minutes cardio only on Tue/Thu. I might skip weight training if it's not helping. Cheers!
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by BNA » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:50 pm

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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby Nate » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:50 pm

The more muscle you have the higher your metabolism - you'll burn more fat doing nothing if you've got more muscle...

I'd always make a case for weight/strength training - especially if you've got a sedate lifestyle/job etc
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby jules21 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:13 pm

you won't lose as much weight doing weights, because you will put on muscle mass. if that's OK and by losing weight you mean reducing fat content, then it works a treat :)
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby didge » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:33 pm

As others have said increased muscle mass will lead you to burn more fat, as muscle sits around using energy all day. I've seen numbers that say a pound of muscle burns 30-50 calories a day, while a pound of fat only burns 3 calories per day.

This is a brief study which compares a group of overweight individuals doing aerobic only exercise compared with mixed aerobic/resistance exercise.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby peter » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:52 pm

Thanks guys! Looks like weight and strength training is here to stay.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby shiv » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:48 pm

Lightish weights, high reps (15-20 per set). Build muscle endurance rather then all out muscle mass
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Postby Bantam Roosta » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:02 pm

It's also good for your bones, tendons, etc. I bit of resistance training is vital to long-term health.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby m@ » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:52 am

LOL at the context-sensitive ads on this thread... that guy must be a track sprinter, no roadie carries that much upper-body muscle :lol:
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby Tom Marius » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:55 am

Exactly! How will people know you're a cyclist when you're in correct proportion instead of being no upper-body mass and all legs? :mrgreen:
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby tripstobaltimore » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:06 pm

I once heard a guy talking to his friend in a bike shop saying "I'l never ride bikes because girls like arms"

He was pretty fat.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:05 pm

peter wrote:I was wondering for the purpose of losing weight is it a good thing to mix weight training into daily cardio exercise?

Yes. A calorific deficit (burning more energy than you're eating) will cause you to lose weight, but, as I understand it, if you're also doing strength training and consuming sufficient protein, then that protects your body's muscle, and the weight you lose will tend to be fat, rather than a combination of muscle and fat. And losing 10kg of fat is obviously much better than losing 5kg of fat and 5kg of muscle. Hell, losing 5kg of fat is much better than losing 5kg of fat and 5kg of muscle.

shiv wrote:Lightish weights, high reps (15-20 per set). Build muscle endurance rather then all out muscle mass

I think you're confused about the effects of weight training. High reps will cause more muscle mass gain (and less strength gain) than lower reps, that's why bodybuilders generally train in the 10-15 rep range. I'd recommend set of 5 reps for general strength training.

Check out this diagram of the effects of training in different repetition ranges and this explanation of the different kinds of hypertrophy.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby shiv » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:56 pm

shiv wrote:Lightish weights, high reps (15-20 per set). Build muscle endurance rather then all out muscle mass

I think you're confused about the effects of weight training. High reps will cause more muscle mass gain (and less strength gain) than lower reps, that's why bodybuilders generally train in the 10-15 rep range. I'd recommend set of 5 reps for general strength training.
quote]


Actually no Im not. 6-10 reps for out and out strength, 10-15 for hypertrophy (growth), 15-20 muscle endurance. If you wana grow big, reach failure around 10-12 reps. By your reasoning anyone pedalling hard for more then a minute would grow enormous thighs. Reps of 5 work great if you wana be a powerlifter. Wiki isn't always the most reliable source since anyone can update it, and any bodybuilding mag will tell you what I said.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:28 am

The forces involved in endurance cycling are very low, nearly an order of magnitude less than our strength capability.

Strength is not a limiter in endurance cycling performance.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:27 am

shiv wrote:6-10 reps for out and out strength, 10-15 for hypertrophy (growth), 15-20 muscle endurance. If you wana grow big, reach failure around 10-12 reps. By your reasoning anyone pedalling hard for more then a minute would grow enormous thighs. Reps of 5 work great if you wana be a powerlifter.

I'd still expect 15-20 rep exercise to cause greater hypertrophy than 5 rep. There are few things that will add muscle mass faster than 20 rep squats. Also, cycling is pretty far from the 15-20 rep range, so you can't extrapolate and say that a 10000-rep bike ride will cause ridiculous hypertrophy.

Anyway, I guess it depends what the OP's training goals are. He doesn't specify other than fat loss, so I'd expect a general strength program would be useful. If he wanted to know how to train for endurance road cycling, mountain biking, track cycling or anything else specific, I'd expect him to ask about those specifically! :-)

Wiki isn't always the most reliable source since anyone can update it

Well, yes, but the definitions of sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar hypertrophy aren't particularly contentious issues, so I doubt that'll be a problem. :wink:
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby jules21 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:49 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:The forces involved in endurance cycling are very low, nearly an order of magnitude less than our strength capability.

Strength is not a limiter in endurance cycling performance.


do pros do weight training? i remember some club riders told me they used to, but they could have been on the wrong track.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby JV911 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:50 am

jules21 wrote:do pros do weight training? i remember some club riders told me they used to, but they could have been on the wrong track.


track sprinters do but not roadies
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby tripstobaltimore » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:55 am

some do, some don't.

p.s. love the hand drawn graph in that wikipedia article
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:09 pm

jules21 wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:The forces involved in endurance cycling are very low, nearly an order of magnitude less than our strength capability.

Strength is not a limiter in endurance cycling performance.


do pros do weight training? i remember some club riders told me they used to, but they could have been on the wrong track.

Some do. Doesn't mean it's a smart idea though.
Some pros also take PEDs.

I sure wouldn't be basing my ideas of training (or equipment choices for that matter) on what Pros do. Often they are good despite their training (or equipment choices).
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:49 pm

half my club goes weight training in winter...i politely declined.They also stop riding nov/dec and start again in the little ring in January...funnily enough I declined on that one too...preffering to find training races till end of Oct and then start building in Nov...yep it is all very old school here...haven't even seen a power meter apart from mine in 18 months.
But I am doing this.... http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610 ... -2,00.html ...I seem to get back problems on the long climbs or hilly mtb rides.I am pretty sure it is because I have very tight hip flexors...and in everyday life things I am starting to get an old age back!!!.So it can't hurt.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby shiv » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:36 pm

[quote="TheSkyMovesSideways
I'd still expect 15-20 rep exercise to cause greater hypertrophy than 5 rep. There are few things that will add muscle mass faster than 20 rep squats. Also, cycling is pretty far from the 15-20 rep range, so you can't extrapolate and say that a 10000-rep bike ride will cause ridiculous hypertrophy.[/quote]

5 rep sets will cause greater hypertrophy due to larger strength gains, 15-20 reps and higher becomes more of an aerobic exercise as opposed to anaeorbic with lower reps. Its very well known in bodybuilding circles that the ranges I said are the basic rule, although there is always exceptions to rules that will grow more on higher reps. Different muscles also respond differently, calves for example get used so much in everyday life that they respond better to higher reps again. Chest and back are rarely put under stress for more then a few 'reps' and therefore respond more to lower reps.
And yes I know 15-20 is far different from 10,000 but they are both aerobic exercises which stimulate less growth.


Also I still prefer the textbooks from my PT course and 60+ bodybuilding mags over Wiki :wink:
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby lethoso » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:02 pm

weights are fun, but the only thing they've done for my cycling is make hills more painful :P

Personally I think it's a good idea to mix up what sort of exercise you do, variety is the spice of life!
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:38 pm

Hi Peter, I'm also a cross trainer (weights, yoga, cycling), though I've been a bit slack with weights lately. I find that cross training gives me the balance I seek.

Fat loss is about 70% diet and 30% exercise, but you need both to succeed.

Exercise - do what works for you

For me that's;
Weights - free weights, heavy loads, full rom, compound exercises, low rep's
Cycling - mainly intervals 30 - 60 seconds and lots of them. Backed up with a single endurance ride.
Yoga - dynamic hatha, or something similar.

Diet - don't get me started :)
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby tripstobaltimore » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:39 pm

That's why tri's are the best :wink:
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby Crawf » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:03 am

shiv wrote:
shiv wrote:quote]
Actually no Im not. 6-10 reps for out and out strength, 10-15 for hypertrophy (growth), 15-20 muscle endurance. If you wana grow big, reach failure around 10-12 reps. By your reasoning anyone pedalling hard for more then a minute would grow enormous thighs. Reps of 5 work great if you wana be a powerlifter. Wiki isn't always the most reliable source since anyone can update it, and any bodybuilding mag will tell you what I said.


Actually no, if you have ever done any form deadlifting, pressing, jerking or squatting with any decent amount of weight you'll know that 1-5reps is generally considered strength training. Not 6-10, unless your doing something along the lines of German Volume Training. Bodybuilding mags are not always the greatest source of info.
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Re: Cardio and Weight Training

Postby dedicate2 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:31 am

Hi, this is actually my first post but I've been lurking since I started riding to work about 4 months ago.

Strength training purely for lifting is generally low rep, heavy weight, long recovery. Body building varies too much to be very instructive about it, but it's really only the final couple of reps that result in growth and that's only if the previous reps properly exhausted the muscle. for example I might do 3 sets of 8 reps benching 80, 90 and then 100k as I move from set to set. But it's probably only the final 2 reps on set 3 at 100k that actually result in muscle growth, the rest are just to pre-exhaust it. There are heaps of techniques for pre-exhausting and you should probably vary the one's you use at least every 12 weeks. Plus they differ from muscle to muscle. For example pre-exhausting a bicep is easy compared to a calf (hence the previous poster talking about calves needing higher reps).

Equally as important to strength and growth is diet. For me personally I'm probably 80% what I eat and 20% how I train.

Then factor in genetics; for example if I so much as look at a weight a get bigger, but if I just look at a cake I get bigger.

Which is why I took up cycling. I'd actually like to be smaller.
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