I hate my Powertap.

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twizzle
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I hate my Powertap.

Postby twizzle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:08 am

Never been so knackered after my standard ride before. Never realised how much my RPE was out when riding on the flat and downhill. And (without doing a FTP test), I'm guessing my FTP is about 10 - 15% less than I thought it was based on the KK trainer sessions. It's all the PowerTap's fault. Stupid Powertap. :evil:
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USM TOM
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby USM TOM » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:43 am

yeah there pretty evil hey

if you want a good number you cant coast :(
im still yet to test my threshold power but i dont think my number will be very high

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:11 am

The truth can be painful.

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby twizzle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:37 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:The truth can be painful.


No kidding. :P

This has taken all the fun out of riding. I'd better make up for it by winning some races.
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby r2160 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:52 am

Well, if you aren't using it, I can organise to pick it up if you like 8)

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USM TOM
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby USM TOM » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:56 pm

just had another quick play with my power tap doing the cycleops test
im thinking my FTP is around 180 mark

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby twizzle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:46 pm

Based on race HR experience and what came up on the meter today, I think my FTP (today) would have been around 290W, while I thought it was around 320W based on 2x20's on my trainer. Not too much trouble pacing myself up the hills (330 - 350W), but trying to keep the watts up on the flats and downhills is damned hard!

However - I've only just got back on the bike after being sick (so much for taking it easy :twisted:) so my HR could still be higher than normal due to loss of fitness in the 11 days I was off the bike.
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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:16 pm

twizzle wrote:Not too much trouble pacing myself up the hills (330 - 350W), but trying to keep the watts up on the flats and downhills is damned hard!

That's a pretty common observation by power meter virgins.

IOW you find out exactly how much you've been soft pedaling.

Don't let it spoil your fun, use it wisely to bring greater enjoyment to your training. The fitter you are, the more fun you can have. :)

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby Aussiebullet » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:32 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:That's a pretty common observation by power meter virgins.

IOW you find out exactly how much you've been soft pedaling.

Don't let it spoil your fun, use it wisely to bring greater enjoyment to your training. The fitter you are, the more fun you can have. :)


That last paraghraph says it all really!

When you want to train because it's so much fun but know you shouldn't because your supposed to be resting so that when you go out tomorrow it will be even better; then you know yer in a good place 8)

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:40 pm

Be interesting to see how it is when you use it on the kk...but yeah they are a bit of a shock to start with...with me it was my crap peak wattage that shocked me :lol: .

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby USM TOM » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:05 pm

twizzle wrote:Based on race HR experience and what came up on the meter today, I think my FTP (today) would have been around 290W, while I thought it was around 320W based on 2x20's on my trainer. Not too much trouble pacing myself up the hills (330 - 350W), but trying to keep the watts up on the flats and downhills is damned hard!


nothing wrong that power mate
although im guessing you have a bit of weight on me

i will have a proper crack at mine on the weekend either outside if the weather is good or set up a fan inside

is 2x20s a good way to get your FTP???

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby twizzle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:03 pm

USM TOM wrote:
twizzle wrote:Based on race HR experience and what came up on the meter today, I think my FTP (today) would have been around 290W, while I thought it was around 320W based on 2x20's on my trainer. Not too much trouble pacing myself up the hills (330 - 350W), but trying to keep the watts up on the flats and downhills is damned hard!


nothing wrong that power mate
although im guessing you have a bit of weight on me

I have a lot of weight on everyone. I'm TLL sized but 5kg heavier and a lot less powerful. :roll: Damn his awesome stats, torturing me with my inadequacy! :P

USM TOM wrote:i will have a proper crack at mine on the weekend either outside if the weather is good or set up a fan inside

is 2x20s a good way to get your FTP???


Estimate only. I'll have to go an read up on the process again... Linky here saying that you should use average wattage from a 20 min test as the FTP and drop 3-5% to do a one hour effort. I'll pull out the DVD that came with the Kinetic tomorrow night, it does some heavy intervals before the 20 min test. Last time I did it it worked out to around 350W.

Can't ride tomorrow, need a car to go and get a power steering hose repaired in between urgent reports and tender documents. :evil:
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby USM TOM » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:30 pm

cool

i'l give that a go on the weekend on my trainer as i think its easier to get a steady readout while using a trainer as there is no hills

been a lightweight all your power figures smash mine :(

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:43 pm

USM TOM wrote:cool

i'l give that a go on the weekend on my trainer as i think its easier to get a steady readout while using a trainer as there is no hills

been a lightweight all your power figures smash mine :(



Power to weight is all that matters....mine SUCKS!!!.On the coggan power profile charts I am an untrained to Cat 5 sprinter...and a Cat 3 at ftp.Being a bit over weight doesn't help :roll: ...if I dropped 10 kilos (easily possible but infinetly difficult!!!) and really nailed my 1 min power I could sneak into the Cat 1 territory.

2nd thoughts us fatties do have an advantage on you wippets....we can drop lots of weight and improve our outputs....where as you can only improve your outputs :twisted: .

Also on the ftp tests (do as I say not as I do)...the test is a best off effort...you should schedule it...twizzle you shouldn't even bother for a few weeks after having 11 days off sick.You have to taper to it...and your head has to be ON!...you want to walk out that door feeling like you are going to smash your pedals to pulp because nailing a good ftp test is as much in the head as it is in the body.

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:46 pm

twizzle wrote:
USM TOM wrote:is 2x20s a good way to get your FTP???


Estimate only. I'll have to go an read up on the process again... Linky here saying that you should use average wattage from a 20 min test as the FTP and drop 3-5% to do a one hour effort. I'll pull out the DVD that came with the Kinetic tomorrow night, it does some heavy intervals before the 20 min test. Last time I did it it worked out to around 350W.

Can't ride tomorrow, need a car to go and get a power steering hose repaired in between urgent reports and tender documents. :evil:

Suggest not using that method. And 3-5% less than 20-min will more than likely overestimate FTP.

here are some sensible words on the topic on testing FTP:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/ ... -sins.html

and pitfalls/common mistakes:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/07/ ... ftp-2.html

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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby USM TOM » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:58 pm

what method would you use???

its all so confusing as every one recomends different ways to measure it

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twizzle
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby twizzle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:27 pm

Considering how variable riding on the road is, I'd take a 20 minute test on a decent trainer as a more reliable test anyway. At least it's a repeatable & controllable process.
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby Ant. » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:30 pm

USM TOM wrote:what method would you use???

its all so confusing as every one recomends different ways to measure it


2x20min intervals. (provided average power is more or less equal in both) should see you right.

Or a 1hr maximal effort.
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Re: I hate my Powertap.

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:02 pm

USM TOM wrote:what method would you use???

its all so confusing as every one recomends different ways to measure it

Because it depends on a number of factors.
All out ~1hr TT is best but not everyone has a suitable location/course for that.

Do a 20-25 min TT; a 3-6 min all out but well paced max effort on another day within about a week of each other and you have inputs for the critical power model.
Also do a MAP test.

Then validate in regular training when you do long intervals as well as normalised power from racing efforts of ~ 1 hour.

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