Why power measurement is important

The foundations for successful riding

Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:46 pm

There are a host of other benefits as well, probably best to read about them:
http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/store ... ---non-us-
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by BNA » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:54 pm

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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby twizzle » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:54 pm

Boring trivia - best 20 minute efforts while solo riding on the crit track.

4 Feb, 374W, 39.3km/h avg.
11 Feb, 392W, 39.4 km/h avg.
18 Feb, 377W, 38.7 km/h avg.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby twizzle » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:56 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:There are a host of other benefits as well, probably best to read about them:
http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/store ... ---non-us-


Feck - I only got my first edition copy two weeks ago. :evil:
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby donncha » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:06 pm

twizzle wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Feck - I only got my first edition copy two weeks ago. :evil:


Feck - me too.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby ft_critical » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:23 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:There are a host of other benefits as well, probably best to read about them:
http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/store ... ---non-us-


Thanks Alex, okay, I'm convinced. Those wind stats are really surprising.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:34 pm

ft_critical wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:There are a host of other benefits as well, probably best to read about them:
http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/store ... ---non-us-


Thanks Alex, okay, I'm convinced. Those wind stats are really surprising.

Yeah - well to flip it around, that same rider on flat road at 275 watts with zero wind -
In order to ride the same speed:
with a 0.5 m/s tailwind - 254 watts
with a 0.5 m/s headwind - 297 watts
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby JV911 » Mon May 03, 2010 7:31 pm

if i'm looking at getting say a garmin 500 to use with a PM, am i correct in saying that i don't need the extra cadence and HRM functions with the garmin (as the PM will have cadence and HRM is redundant) ?
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby 1q2w3e4r » Mon May 03, 2010 7:33 pm

I am off to get smashed by Alex tomorrow night with a mate at the turbo trainer sessions... Looking forward to it! :shock:
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby twizzle » Mon May 03, 2010 8:19 pm

JV911 wrote:if i'm looking at getting say a garmin 500 to use with a PM, am i correct in saying that i don't need the extra cadence and HRM functions with the garmin (as the PM will have cadence and HRM is redundant) ?


Well, you don't get the HRM strap with the PT unless you drop some cash, and the built-in cadence detection is... interesting... so you might as well buy the package with the Garmin.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby ft_critical » Tue May 04, 2010 9:16 am

Have permission to purchase a powermeter from GOC Home Command. So I spent the weekend and night doing some research to clear up any final doubts. Here is a nice little summary of benefits/uses.
trainingpeaks.com wrote:
Training Opportunities in Which to Train Using Your Power Meter
• Trainer- Easy to regulate your wattage as there are no external influences.
• Flat Roads- utilizing a specific wattage protocol
• Time Trials -Pacing tool and to select the best cadence.
• Hill Climbs-Pacing tool and to select the best cadence.
• Specific Intervals and training protocols.
• "Race Winning Intervals"
What to Look at in Your Downloads
• Periods of significant efforts. For example: A 15 minute interval that you did at Sub LT HR.
• Significant fluctuations in power and count them.
• Cadence when you have time periods of high power output.
• How many kilojoules of energy did you put out?
• MAX wattage, and average wattage for selected duration of interest.
• Heart Rate at significant time periods.
• Try to pinpoint areas of a race that have significance and look at them to see what made or broke that part of the race.
• Look at the area of time that you got dropped and see what happened. Maybe your cadence was too low for 10 minutes before. Maybe your pedaling stroke became sloppy as you got more fatigued and your torque got too high compared to the power output.

The main lingering concern was that of relative performance. You need to know what performance level you need to achieve to realise your racing goals. You might be smashing the numbers relative to yourself, but not relative to the people you will meet in your race. Same, you might have the power to hang on in the climb, but not the leg speed to hold the break.
I certainly see that Powermeter PLUS coach is a must combination. It allows coaches to assess your performance on their plan. But what about for a self-coached rider?
Conclusion:
1. You need to combine the powermeter with a structured training program and racing regularly to determine relative performance.
2. THEN you analyse your race data and look for where you had blown/used all your matches etc. And these become your training benchmarks.
3. IMO race the highest grade you can to capture those benchmarks. Not everytime, just to set and re-set your benchmarks.

e.g., for a one hour race I need to be able to soft pedal at 260watts for 40min, perform 10 x 1min at 320 working in the break, 1 x 5min at 400watts to make the break, and whatever for the sprint at the end.

It does occur to me that consulting a coach (around $100 a month online + phone for example) would also be really beneficial in setting up your training programme and getting those initial benchmarks in place – assuming you have your goals, strengths and weaknesses sorted that is.

Did I get it right?
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby JV911 » Tue May 04, 2010 10:01 am

twizzle wrote:Well, you don't get the HRM strap with the PT unless you drop some cash, and the built-in cadence detection is... interesting... so you might as well buy the package with the Garmin.


what about quarq/garmin combo?

and does one need a HRM if you have a PM?
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby twizzle » Tue May 04, 2010 11:59 am

JV911 wrote:
twizzle wrote:Well, you don't get the HRM strap with the PT unless you drop some cash, and the built-in cadence detection is... interesting... so you might as well buy the package with the Garmin.


what about quarq/garmin combo?

and does one need a HRM if you have a PM?


My bad, I misunderstood what you meant re. HRM being redundant.

IMHO - no. It's still a good measure of cardio fitness. No point hammering out the watts you used to be able to do when your HR is showing that you are about to blow up.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue May 04, 2010 12:14 pm

twizzle wrote:IMHO - no. It's still a good measure of cardio fitness.

In what way?

twizzle wrote:No point hammering out the watts you used to be able to do when your HR is showing that you are about to blow up.

Don't need HRM to know when that's about to happen. When you blow, you blow.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby JV911 » Tue May 04, 2010 12:58 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Don't need HRM to know when that's about to happen. When you blow, you blow.


thanks - just saved me 100 bucks :D
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 04, 2010 3:52 pm

I have worn my hr strap twice (or maybe once,can't remember)this year...and even on those occasions the only thing I have looked at is the max hr in the sprint.Once you are on a powermeter it doesn't really matter much does it!.
Plus I always hated wearing the bloody uncomfortable things!.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby twizzle » Tue May 04, 2010 7:42 pm

To each their own. I find it very useful when coming back from sickness to tell if it's too much too soon, and I also find it quite useful when chasing the bunch up hills as a guide for when it's better to back off so that I'm not cooked when I get to the top - no point going jelly-legs if I need to TT to get back onto the bunch.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed May 05, 2010 10:24 am

1q2w3e4r wrote:I am off to get smashed by Alex tomorrow night with a mate at the turbo trainer sessions... Looking forward to it! :shock:

So we didn't scare you off? :D It's a tough session that one. They vary week to week. All quality though.

Do you like the set up? (BTW - am bringing over a 3rd BF fan tomorrow to add more breeze)
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby JV911 » Wed May 05, 2010 10:50 am

twizzle wrote:I'd buy a Garmin 500 and a Quarq.


quess what i just ordered... :mrgreen:
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby toolonglegs » Wed May 05, 2010 3:39 pm

JV911 wrote:
twizzle wrote:I'd buy a Garmin 500 and a Quarq.


quess what i just ordered... :mrgreen:


Nice!.
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby Ant. » Wed May 05, 2010 6:49 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
JV911 wrote:
twizzle wrote:I'd buy a Garmin 500 and a Quarq.


quess what i just ordered... :mrgreen:


Nice!.

Guess whos SRM track stopped working :roll:
Which follows the $650 and seven week turnaround for servicing a wireless SRM professional road I just finished enduring :roll:
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby donncha » Wed May 05, 2010 6:56 pm

JV911 wrote:
twizzle wrote:I'd buy a Garmin 500 and a Quarq.


quess what i just ordered... :mrgreen:


Nice! My 500 arrived today.

Busy trying to order a Powertap off cyclepowermeters.com but they're being a bit useless :(
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby 1q2w3e4r » Wed May 05, 2010 8:19 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
1q2w3e4r wrote:I am off to get smashed by Alex tomorrow night with a mate at the turbo trainer sessions... Looking forward to it! :shock:

So we didn't scare you off? :D It's a tough session that one. They vary week to week. All quality though.

Do you like the set up? (BTW - am bringing over a 3rd BF fan tomorrow to add more breeze)

No chance! I'll be there Friday if Steve can manage it :) Just a matter of adapting to the indoor sessions as its a big adjustment from doing all my training on the road.

My aim is to try and get some adaption to the trainer and bridge the gap to outdoor power. Ultimate aim will be to improve my TT'ing ability for calga/west head :D

The setup is great, really good format, also good to check out what everyone else is doing and being able to see what is coming up. We'll wind up having a crack at Mt Ventoux yet
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby JV911 » Fri May 07, 2010 10:49 am

what software are people using to analyse their PM data?
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby sogood » Fri May 07, 2010 10:51 am

JV911 wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Don't need HRM to know when that's about to happen. When you blow, you blow.

thanks - just saved me 100 bucks :D

Saved me $200. :wink:
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Re: Why power measurement is important

Postby mianos » Fri May 07, 2010 11:35 am

You can still use a HRM for intervals. It's not as good as using a power meter because it is not as instantaneous but it's a hell of a lot cheaper. It depends on where you are at with the fitness and where you want to be. A HRM allows you to structure your interval training in a manner where you can set your load. For example 1 Minute at 90% then 2 Minutes at 80% for 10 intervals. You do get used to the delay so for intervals you can still use it to help. On the other hand if you satisfy all the following requirements get a power meter: you have infinite money and you want (or need) to train in the most efficient way possible.
I've got a HRM and had one for years but I don't use it much outside of intervals up my favorite mountain in Europe and maybe sometimes for laps in the park by myself.
Even though the data does end up in sportstracks and GC I don't go back and look at it much.
I can ride faster than some people who have power meters and I'm slower than others, what does that mean? Maybe I am limiting my potential as a rider but at 47 it's more about the bike for me.
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