Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

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Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:32 pm

In the last 2 days I've done a couple of rides which raises a couple of questions for me.

One was a 2hr road ride with rolling hills and a hill climb at the end.
The other was a 2hr offroad time trial more for fun but hard anyway.

The road ride first:- the ride ended with a downhill of maybe 5 mins and I rode back up a continuous hill for approx 15 - 20 mins. My monitor maxed at 181 with a flash to 184. It was a hard climb (a rating of 9.5 for me; 10 being hardest).

The off-road ride:- this was up and down technical climbs (to get the best time possible).
On one up hill (about 15 mins) it's max was 183. This climb was also hard for me (9.5).

Would the max on the monitor be close enough for me to use as my max hr? I was going to add a couple of beats (to make up for being 9.5, not 10 as rate of effort) and make it 185-186 max.

Btw I'm 52; no spare weight, eat mostly healthy food.
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by BNA » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:09 pm

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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:09 pm

Unlikely you saw your max heart rate...when you see an absolute max it is usually following a progressive build up launching into a full on 100% effort...like a sprint at the end of a race or absolutely hammering yourself on a climb till you explode and can't pedal anymore.
A normal hard ride won't usually induce max heart rates...if you want to know it you will have to test it by riding a full on effort to exhaustion.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby DanielS » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:25 pm

Yes, what toolong said.

One way to get Max HR is to ride progressively harder over the course of about 15 minutes, and when you think you can't ride any harder, launch into an all out sprint for as long as you can. Then try not to keel over!! (PS if you are at all unsure, you should check with a Dr before doing such things)

You were probably working at a very high level but not high enough to achieve Max HR.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:28 pm

Yes make sure you have a good heart first :lol: ...I must admit I don't like doing MAP tests on my own because you can push yourself so hard that you are close to falling over when you finally crack (on a mag trainer...MAP test on rollers must be fun!).
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby twizzle » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:33 pm

I always thought my max HR was around 184 based on what I saw during the final lap of criteriums... but then I pushed it to 192 by hammering up a steep hill at the end of a time trial when following the rule of thumb that "you can do anything for one minute". Either way, I feel like falling off the bike after this level of effort.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:49 pm

Sounds like I better see if I can borrow a trainer for a weekend and smash it out on that.

I don't want to go any harder (100%) on a road ride (in case of the inevitable wobble, fall off, hurt self syndrome).

If I'm only doing those "efforts" mentioned above at say......90 or 95% max hr then it's possible that the real max rate could be 192 - 200+.

Is that normal for a young fella like me? It's supposed to go slower when one ages.

I'm not concerned about doing a max test (other than being rooted for a couple of days and missing out on a good ride somewhere).
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:03 pm

I think it easier to do outdoors...a MAP test is a bit different.
On a day that you are not too fatigued (and not too rested either) find a long straight ending in a climb.Bring you HR slowly up to 170-180 on the straight and then give it everything for one minute on the climb.
It will be close enough...you may see a slightly higher hr another time but it will only be 3 or 4 beats higher.

But really it isn't that important...finding a reasonable accurate estimate of your max sustainable heart rate is of more use.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:34 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I think it easier to do outdoors...a MAP test is a bit different.
On a day that you are not too fatigued (and not too rested either) find a long straight ending in a climb.Bring you HR slowly up to 170-180 on the straight and then give it everything for one minute on the climb.
It will be close enough...you may see a slightly higher hr another time but it will only be 3 or 4 beats higher.

But really it isn't that important...finding a reasonable accurate estimate of your max sustainable heart rate is of more use.


OK.

It's not important to me either as far as knowing my max heart rate. I do mostly longer rides (even though sort of beginner) on the mtn bike and will use the roadie for fitness mostly. My only interest is getting fit and being as good as I can get on the mtn bike.

I was doing it to get a point of consistency i.e. find a point in my hr range and decide the different training levels from that.

What would you use as a max sustainable hr test/ride?
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:11 pm

toolonglegs wrote:...MAP test on rollers must be fun!

Not recommended.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:16 pm

Here's some notes on testing.

You could do a 30-min time trial and see what your average HR is. Then compare it to where it falls in this calculator for general HR training levels based on your estimated max HR:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=145
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:35 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Here's some notes on testing.

You could do a 30-min time trial and see what your average HR is. Then compare it to where it falls in this calculator for general HR training levels based on your estimated max HR:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=145


What does the time trial include?
Warmup then start the 30 mins?
Any hills? Or all flat/ish road and maintain a consistent pace?
Do I increase the pace every few minutes as per the calculator?

What level hr?

I realise this is basic to you fellas but this would be the first time I've tested like this on a bike. Every other sport I've done is sprint, rest, sprint, rest and no bikes anywhere in sight.

Thankyou.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:16 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:...MAP test on rollers must be fun!

Not recommended.

No I wasn't suggesting it :lol: ...not after my state at the end of certain MAP tests!.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:22 pm

For a TT you will need a good warm up...The main thing with a TT is not to go too hard at the start.Build your heart rate up slowly while trying to maintain the same power level thru out the effort.
Pick a good road,hopefully pretty flat with no stops...it might take more than one try to get your pacing right.Not a big deal because they are bloody good training at the same time.
Also try and keep everything consistent before and during the ride.
If you start a diet of 5 min and 20 min intervals your performance will probably go thru the roof :D .
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby Redbull » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:31 pm

Ok guys, what's the deal with dry retching/vomiting after a hard spell.

I wasn't big on this when running or training for rugby, but recently at our club TT's when I have been digging deep for the last 1/4, cross the line and have to spend the rest of the arvo hosing down my bike :lol: .

Somebody who knows more about the body able to help out?
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:00 pm

toolonglegs wrote:For a TT you will need a good warm up...The main thing with a TT is not to go too hard at the start.Build your heart rate up slowly while trying to maintain the same power level thru out the effort.
Pick a good road,hopefully pretty flat with no stops...it might take more than one try to get your pacing right.Not a big deal because they are bloody good training at the same time.
Also try and keep everything consistent before and during the ride.
If you start a diet of 5 min and 20 min intervals your performance will probably go thru the roof :D .



As the bikes pace goes up do you stay in the same gear and pedal faster or change up and keep same effort (i.e. which one keeps power more even?)?

Aside from the TT do you do the 5 min and 20 min intervals during one ride? What pace do you sustain during them?

Many thanks for your help too people.

Another road ride this morning and I'm shagged. I can see why my mates have said the roadie's good for stamina.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:21 pm

ireland57 wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:For a TT you will need a good warm up...The main thing with a TT is not to go too hard at the start.Build your heart rate up slowly while trying to maintain the same power level thru out the effort.
Pick a good road,hopefully pretty flat with no stops...it might take more than one try to get your pacing right.Not a big deal because they are bloody good training at the same time.
Also try and keep everything consistent before and during the ride.
If you start a diet of 5 min and 20 min intervals your performance will probably go thru the roof :D .



As the bikes pace goes up do you stay in the same gear and pedal faster or change up and keep same effort (i.e. which one keeps power more even?)?

Aside from the TT do you do the 5 min and 20 min intervals during one ride? What pace do you sustain during them?

Many thanks for your help too people.

Another road ride this morning and I'm shagged. I can see why my mates have said the roadie's good for stamina.

Focus on effort level and pick a gear that feels good.

In a TT, you are looking for a maximal effort for the duration - so it will require some pacing. Will seem solid early on, then hard, then harder, then very tough towards the end.

it may require you to do it 2 or 3 times over the coming months to get used to it.

as for intervals, longer ones at a bit below TT pace from 10-20 minutes, do 1-3 of those with a few minutes break in between.
Shorter ones 3-5 minutes, at or slightly above TT pace (HR is useless as a guide for these) and give yourself same duration of recovery before repeating from 3-7 times.

Here are some thoughts on intervals:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=114


however if you are new to cycling/training, then I wouldn't suggest getting stuck into those just yet, they take a bit of time to build up to
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:58 pm

Thanks for the info Alex.

I'm fairly new to cycling having been mtn biking for 2 years and only getting more serious in Oct 09. I've just bought a road bike last week..... and already love it.

I'll start the intervals soon (week after next) but at a lower level to get used to the principle and the method first.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:25 pm

More questions about heart rate, climbing and it's tactics.

I did a hill climb TT on the weekend consisting of 3.0 kms in length and 290 metre vertical rise. It has 2 flattish bits about 30 metres long.

I got some good advice from a roadie who wasn't competing about the start.....i.e. "start about 1/2 way up the cassette when they let you go so you're over the top of the gear straight away".

Btw, I've never ridden this bike more than 1.4 kms up this hill. It was just a "suck it and see" thing for a bit of fun.
I started in 3rd (knowing I can't push anything bar granny up steep hills yet).

It felt great for about 200 - 300 metres then at 400 - 500 I knew I'd got a bit keen.
After that it went downhill. Me, not the climb. By 1 km I was suffering, alternating often between sitting and standing, all of it in granny. At 1.5 km I was hurting all over and wanted to stop and rest (and nearly did). Next corner I saw a friend hooting and hollering so I had to disappear out of his sight and I was going to rest but realised there was only 1.1 km to go. And then saw the final corners and the steepest most horrible bit of the whole climb.

My hr maxed at 182. It was the worst I've ever felt on the bike and rated RPE at 9.5 (if I spewed it would have been a 10 of course).

My knees were sort of ok so not a huge amount of pain there.
I've had my hr higher than that (185 - 187) a number of times but not suffered like that for that long (on a bike anyway). So what gives?

I thought that would be a good max test as the hill and effort got bigger over the last 8 minutes.

What strategies do you use for this?

I haven't started intervals yet; I've been too busy having fun mountain biking. They start later this week.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby twizzle » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:18 pm

Pacing.

Pacing, pacing, pacing.

And then you go hard in the final minute, when it doesn't matter if you fall off the bike after you are over the line.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby icoz » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:15 am

On long steady climbs don't try to drive to hard in the legs on a big gear to early. Pick a low gear that allows you to sustain a high cadence, get comfy on the bike (relax your arms also, either on the hoods or bar) and pedal away. Try to keep a smooth rhythm and before you know it you'll be over the top and as happy as a pig in ......
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby ireland57 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:34 am

I noticed well after the TT that my biceps were a little sore. Given that my working life was as a carpenter ('til a cruisier job came along) my biceps don't ever hurt. I must have been straining and tensed more than I thought.

I couldn't turn more than 60 rpm on the steep bits in granny even standing.

On my mtn bike it's essential for me to have the option of high cadence (80 - 90) just for ride survival.

Is it the same for the road bike?

Thanks to those who've helped with all the great advice so far. I am listening but haven't learned how to apply it to this discipline yet.
I've been upping the ante a fair bit lately and it's put a lot of my previous thoughts and methods out of whack a little.
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby Chaderotti » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:14 pm

To show how unfit I am, I did about 5 km at 33 km/h. At some points edging close to 40 km/h my heart rate hit 208 bpm. I would say that is my maximum heart rate and I didn't have to do this fancy ass, ride for 30 minutes then launch into sprint stuff :mrgreen:
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:05 am

For Ireland57 - I don't race, and don't really want to as I enjoy the ride and being with mates, but in training/riding, I try and do different hills and see what happens. The last couple of weekends have done a hill in Adelaide called Corkscrew Rd (similar gradient to your climb - 2.48km with a rise of 228m, no flats, steep at the beginning to 14-15%, and then levels off at 7% for the last km).

I did the climb 1st time in 12:55 with a brief rest at the bottom 1/3. Then last week did it in 12:54 with no stops, but granny gear from the start for the steep bits (34/27).

The Max/Avg HR was 184/174 and then 192/181 (193 has been my predicted max)

I knew I was at my limit for the lower section without looking at the HR !!!! You get to know it from your effort and how you feel.

Keep enjoying the riding. :D
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Re: Heart rate - is this maximum or not?

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:15 pm

There is a certain member of this forum who has a max hr of around 240...and watts per kilo of 5.4ish at threshold :shock: ...I expect his heart rate will drop as he "matures" but his threshold will certainly improve :D .
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