Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

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Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby ft_critical » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:38 pm

In general, given the Sydney RR season (50-75km races), I need to improve my power climbing ability (hills are really only 500m in length IMO) but maintain the speed from the Crits (close gaps, make breaks, sprint for the win.)

Sun or Sat – Road Race; Calga, West Head, Beaumont Rd (Crit) or Eastern Creek. Might try the Parra race out at Oakville. Essentially, minimize the crits. Target races are Eddie Salas cup in May and the Kurrajong Classic in Aug.
Mon: 26km Recovery ride (Commute)
Tue/Wed: Hard Group ride (Le Spit Akuna Bay, Dawn Patrol through Bobbin Head or MWCC Fast ride to Church point) So I move from just riding the MWCC ride to adding more hilly group rides.
Wed: Off (note if I do Dawnie, Tue is off)
Thur: 3 phase hill intervals on Parrawi (1km 3-5%) x 8 and the Zoo Hill (1km 3-5%) in Mosman x 4
Fri: Recovery ride (commute to work, note swap with Thur activities if I do the Dawnie)
Sat: off (this is unchangeable – one weekend day is family time; no bike related activities)

Net this is 280 to 300km per week and is designed to be build 2 phase. I will try to run a 4week cycle, 3weeks of the above then drop down to a recovery week, maintaining the intensity but dropping distance to 170-200k. And I really do need this. In truth sometimes I am really struggling by week 3 of a mesocycle.

3 phase climbs are:
• start at a solid pace,
• click up two gears at half way and maintain cadence,
• then another two gears + stand and drive on for the last 10% and maintain a short TT over the top.

What do you think? What should I swap in/out?
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by BNA » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:35 pm

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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:35 pm

I have found this year that if I do a very easy day two days before a race (1 hour recovery or nothing at all) followed by 1 hour the day before a race of 2 1 min VO2's and 10 minutes at threshold...that I am racing to win instead of being tired and wearing myself down.
So I would highly recommend trying nothing two days before a race and tune up the day before.
This means that race day is the first day of a 3 to 4 day block...depending on how hard the races are.

I suppose the bonus of running a power meter is you know how hard efforts/races are...instead of guessing.I watch the TSB line a lot and like to be as close to zero by each race day as I can be...how I am going to do that when my TSB hit -45 :shock: this week I don't know.But what I do know is that I haven't taken a week off or anything other than a slightly reduced load since the 29th of Jan...hopefully I can hold it till end of June...and then I am taking a few weeks off :D .
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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby ft_critical » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:58 pm

toolonglegs wrote:So I would highly recommend trying nothing two days before a race and tune up the day before.


Thanks TLL, I will give it a try before one of my Calga races.

Do you think that hill intervals build more strength than doing TT style intervals on a flatter course? And would the latter be more appropriate for Sydney RR?
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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:18 pm

I think a lot depends on how hard the races actually are...most Sydney races are only an hour long.Maybe think of doing a 20 minute threshold interval after your race if the race hasn't overly stressed you.This very much goes for group rides...they have a good mix of VO2 work in them usually and some threshold work...but really "most" of them are not hard enough.I know the ones you have mentioned are pretty full on groups so only you can decide how hard you working in them.
My normal week looks like this...

-Sat 2 to 3 hour race...usually hard enough that I take the car as I couldn't do much else when I have finished.
-Sun...if race was very hard then recovery.If not then race again or group ride (but these have become too easy of late so I am more likely to do threshold work in a 2 hour or less ride.
-Mon...if I have done two hard days then recovery.If not and I feel fresh then VO2 work...at least 4-5 minute intervals with same time as intervals in between for recovery...do 3 or 4 efforts no matter what.If I am not so fresh then threshold work in 20 minute intervals.
-Tuesday...if I rested Monday then I will do Monday's work out today,If I rode Monday then a 2 hour ride with plenty of sweet spot and sprint work...but not going too deep.
-Wed...off totally or 1 hour recovery.
-Thurs...Off Totally or 1 hour strees free
-Fri...Tune Up

...Rinse and repeat :D

Pretty much a 3-4 day block followed by 3 easier days leading in to a race...alot of this depends on the race's importance.If it really isn't suited to me then I will do 3-4 days blocks using the race as hard training.

This all came from a pretty good source...he certainly put me right about my pre race days.
Ant know's about the "tiger" :wink:
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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby ft_critical » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:59 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Maybe think of doing a 20 minute threshold interval after your race if the race hasn't overly stressed you.This very much goes for group rides...they have a good mix of VO2 work in them usually and some threshold work...but really "most" of them are not hard enough.


My hill repeats really hurt and it takes my legs sometime to recover. Conversely, the MWCC ride (where I do extra turns and try to win the sprints, power climbs) stretch my ability to keep going.

What is the break down of your 20min threshold interval? And what else are you doing in that 2hr ride?
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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:27 pm

ft_critical wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Maybe think of doing a 20 minute threshold interval after your race if the race hasn't overly stressed you.This very much goes for group rides...they have a good mix of VO2 work in them usually and some threshold work...but really "most" of them are not hard enough.


My hill repeats really hurt and it takes my legs sometime to recover. Conversely, the MWCC ride (where I do extra turns and try to win the sprints, power climbs) stretch my ability to keep going.

What is the break down of your 20min threshold interval? And what else are you doing in that 2hr ride?



Maybe your hill repeats really hurt because you are doing them too hard?...my VO2 efforts are about 115-120% of threshold..so that I can keep them steady for 5 minutes...meaning in 3 or 4 intervals I get lots of time working the VO2 area (if that is the right term)...and a lot of suffering!.
20 minutes intervals for me is pretty much...10-15 minute warm up.20 minutes at 350-370w....holding back at the start as you always go too hard and then once you realise that it isn't that easy to hold...just settle in and hold it for 20 minutes...uphill downhill everywhere.10 minutes cruising and do it again...finish out the ride at a steady pace...or if you are feeling strong do a 3rd!.
For me both 5 minute and 20 minute it is important to hold the level for the entire interval...don't go too hard at the start so you fade otherwise you will fade out of the zones you are trying to work.

I am no coach...I need to go off how I feel.Shorter hard rides for me are easier to recover from than longer medium paced rides...and I need lots of recovery!.
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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby ft_critical » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:38 pm

toolonglegs wrote:my VO2 efforts are about 115-120% of threshold..so that I can keep them steady for 5 minutes...meaning in 3 or 4 intervals I get lots of time working the VO2 area (if that is the right term)...and a lot of suffering!.
20 minutes intervals for me is pretty much...10-15 minute warm up.20 minutes at 350-370w....


Okay, I will factor in some 5x5 and 2x20. The problem is with only the HRM I really need to do this on a circuit so I can judge my power by relative speed. But there really isn't such a place near me. Thus I have always used hill intervals because it is a more controled environment. Mind you, I don't really see how you do it with a Power Meter on an undulating course either. You are trying to maintain higher wattage over a given distance/time, I and trying to get a higher speed for relatively the same HR.
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Re: Help fix my winter RR Training Plan please :-)

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:47 pm

5x5 :shock: ...let me know when you get 3 done well :lol: ...they are bloody hard.If you want more time at VO2 then drop the rest period between down instead of trying 5x5 straight up.
McCarrs climb?...west head?...yes I often need about 15-16km for my 20 minutes (I like a bit of a tailwind sometimes!)...but doing a U turn doesn't upset the average too much...but it can stuff up your rythm!.
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