Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

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Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Mon May 17, 2010 7:41 pm

Hey Guys n Gals,

I just attened the Ride2Riverstone and I felt like the 30 Km route wasnt any where near as tough as the Tour De Hills a few weeks ago. I'm thinking my training is starting to pay - With this in mind, I want to set my sights on a nice hard goal.

I'd like to complete the 80 Km Route for the Sydney - Gong ride this year. Does any one have any suggestions for training to get me up to spec for the ride? I've got a gym membership and have been doing some weights on my off days. I mainly focus on my core and leg muscles but I do achieve a full body workout. I really struggle to keep my weight constant with my cycling (Hence the gym) so I'm wondering how I can build up to such a high Km without losing all my weight. [I'm 5'9ish and weigh 60ish Kg's]

P.S did I mention I'll be doing all my riding on a mountain bike?
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by BNA » Mon May 17, 2010 8:03 pm

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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon May 17, 2010 8:03 pm

How much riding do you do per week?
Hours and effort level?
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Mon May 17, 2010 11:05 pm

Hey Alex,

I usually ride for about 30 - 45 mins with an average Hr of 80 - 82% and Max Hr - 90%.

I live in a hilly area which means my heart rate is usually up and down (like the hills :D).

I average around 10 - 12 km per ride. It doesn't sound like much but the hills are big!!

I hope my limited data helps :S
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby sogood » Mon May 17, 2010 11:22 pm

Join a club and work your way up to their regular Sunday ride which are typically in the 80-100km range. Once done, Sydney-Gong is nothing. ;)
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Tue May 18, 2010 6:28 pm

Thanks for the idea Sogood, I'll see what groups are around my area.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby sblack » Tue May 18, 2010 7:09 pm

Just get out and try some longer rides on a regular basis. If you can do 30 km ok now get out and try 40. Then 50 and so on. If you are riding regularly between now and November you'll only need to add 10 km each month which you'll probably find easily achievable.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Wayfarer » Tue May 18, 2010 7:13 pm

Try to get in a good few 40-60km rides first, and make sure your nutrition keeps up. try to eat every hour to keep your energy levels up :)
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Tue May 18, 2010 8:24 pm

Thanks for the advice Wayfarer and Sblack, I'll give both those options a try.

I've got access to the M7 groups near by so I'll give them a try.

Does anyone have an opinion/suggestion for weight training to compliment my cycling? I understand core strength is vital to any training program but as far as general weights go, is there much benefit to be had? Obviously bicep curls aren't going to help my pedaling, but I'm trying avoid a strength imbalance.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Tue May 18, 2010 8:25 pm

P.S

Thanks heaps to Alex for supplying those articles.... VERY USEFUL!
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Wayfarer » Wed May 19, 2010 12:52 pm

Shaolin_stud wrote:Thanks for the advice Wayfarer and Sblack, I'll give both those options a try.

I've got access to the M7 groups near by so I'll give them a try.

Does anyone have an opinion/suggestion for weight training to compliment my cycling? I understand core strength is vital to any training program but as far as general weights go, is there much benefit to be had? Obviously bicep curls aren't going to help my pedaling, but I'm trying avoid a strength imbalance.

No worries. General weights can help improve your overall health, and help remove lactate faster, resulting in a better time trial, and sprint. Core muscles are the most important in cycling, after heart and legs. Since weight training trains each muscle seperately to its full potential, their collective strength can be improved (note; strength, not endurance). your most important muscle in cycling is, of course, your heart.

i found this for you http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hpC ... &q&f=false
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Thu May 20, 2010 8:41 am

Hey Wayfarer,

Thanks heaps for that book. It was very useful - I'm going to order today when I get to work. Shame Google doesn't let you read the entire book -shrugs- oh well.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Wayfarer » Tue May 25, 2010 9:31 pm

No worries, I was thinking of buying one myself, but hopefully a girl in my life will buy me one for my 21st..
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby ghettro » Thu May 27, 2010 11:25 am

Another thing that is good with longer rides is once you get into the 1+ hour zone for riding any problems with your setup will be amplified, things like seat height, cleat adjustment, bar height etc. By doing these longer rides before hand you can sort these out, as well as getting used to eating whilst riding and keeping hydrated.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Fri May 28, 2010 9:37 am

Good point Ghettro,

I'll have to get out there and do a few trial runs to make sure I've got the right set up.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:50 am

Wayfarer wrote:No worries. General weights can help improve your overall health, and help remove lactate faster, resulting in a better time trial, and sprint. Core muscles are the most important in cycling, after heart and legs. Since weight training trains each muscle seperately to its full potential, their collective strength can be improved (note; strength, not endurance). your most important muscle in cycling is, of course, your heart.

i found this for you http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hpC ... &q&f=false

I find the leg muscles are pretty darn important in cycling and would suggest a focus on those by cycling. The core musculature will get pretty most of the stimulus it needs to ride a bike powerfully by riding a bike powerfully. Hard TT like efforts, hillclimbs, sprints both in and out of saddle, standing starts, long tempo rides, and so on are great for the core and far more specific.

How does doing weights help remove lactate faster?

How does weight training result in a better time trial? In fact it might not even help your sprint (by far and away the best training for improving sprint performance is sprinting).

The best thing the OP can do to prepare for longer and more challenging rides is to progressively increase the amount of riding they do in a sustainable manner and to be consistent with their training, and then begin to overlay on that some riding at higher intensities.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:41 pm

I guess you're right Alex, specificity's always key but balancing a prgram with weights cant hurt :) Lactate tolerance (as opposed to removal?? dont know why i said that) can be increased alot through weight training; of course it's increased through cycling practice (hill repeats etc), so shouldnt be used as a substitute. Since high lactate (or inorganic phosphate, you know what i mean) is the main inhibitor of an average speed in time trial performance, pushing up the anaerobic threshold would improve TT performance. We do this in marathon running as well, to increase speed by up to 5km/h on flat. Naturally, on the bike work would be better (especially for a better rider), but again, the advantage helps. I wouldn't advocate anything as a replacement for using a bike to achieve goals you want on a bike, but how come you dont think it'll help with sprinting? Wouldnt more strength = better neurology, and larger muscle fibres?

That being said, I dont know how to compare Alberto Contador to Chris Hoy..
Chris Hoy wrote:'if I'm in the Gym; training is mainly focussed on heavy squatting; developing maximal strength through low repetitions and high loads

I hate seeing Cav and Boonen struggle up mountains, so i'm guessing it's a different type of fitness?
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby hartleymartin » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:03 pm

Sydney-Gong is not all that hard. Unless you want to do it in under 4 hours. I did it in about 5.5 to 6 hours saddle time. I took the opportunity to take rest stops whenever possible, and had to stop a few times for mechanical issues.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby trailgumby » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:37 pm

To answer the issue re: core strength, my expereince would indicate that cycling alone is not necessarily enough to provide sufficient buffer to prevent injury. Sure, it's a sample size of one, but hear me out:

When I was surfing a lot as well as riding, I had no issues. Core strength is vital to balancing on a board, whether paddling or actually riding, and surf sessions work your core pretty hard.

When shoulder injury prevented me surfing (oil on road = crash at 50km/hr :( ), the gradual decline of my core stability from a sedentary desk job eventually and inevitably led to issues with my sacro-illiac joints.

As Steve Hogg predicted, core strength has become almost my "second religion". Since adding it to my shoulder rehab workouts, the lower back issues have largely disapeared. However, if I neglect the maintenance they return. Not immediately, but eventually and inevitably.

Some core strength stability work would be beneficial for most athletes in my view.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:36 am

Hey guys, you both raise good points.

Hartleymartin, I like the idea of taking rest stops as often as necessary for the sydney - gong ride. My only concern is that I wouldn't be able to make the distance, I;ve been doing some longer rides and am starting to get used to being int the saddle for 3+hours at a time.

Trailgumby, I wish I was as cool as you with the surfing! I think I might stick to swimming to help my core strength + its nice to be doing something a litle bit different.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:47 pm

Wayfarer wrote:but how come you dont think it'll help with sprinting? Wouldnt more strength = better neurology, and larger muscle fibres?

I didn't say it wouldn't, I said it might not.

Even in track sprinting, there's only so much strength that's of any use, since what's much more important is being able to apply high force at high velocity*. Increasing strength beyond a certain level does nothing to improve the velocity of such contractions, all it ends up doing is add unnecessary mass that costs energy to accelerate and adds aerodynamic resistance (even Chris Hoy will tell you this).

* IOW what matters is the power you can produce at high pedal velocities, not how strong you are.

Here's an example: Ryan Bailey, track sprinter, dual Olympic champion. I was (when I had two legs) somewhat stronger than Ryan (as defined by free squat) but he can perform a flying 200m TT some 3 seconds faster than I ever could.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Shaolin_stud » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:46 pm

Hey Alex,

You raise a good point. Here is a question for you: "For someone that doesn't have the kind of fitness and strength of a multi season rider (I've only been riding for about 6 months) how would they go about improving the most efficently?"
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:14 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I didn't say it wouldn't, I said it might not.

Even in track sprinting, there's only so much strength that's of any use, since what's much more important is being able to apply high force at high velocity*. Increasing strength beyond a certain level does nothing to improve the velocity of such contractions, all it ends up doing is add unnecessary mass that costs energy to accelerate and adds aerodynamic resistance (even Chris Hoy will tell you this).

* IOW what matters is the power you can produce at high pedal velocities, not how strong you are.

Here's an example: Ryan Bailey, track sprinter, dual Olympic champion. I was (when I had two legs) somewhat stronger than Ryan (as defined by free squat) but he can perform a flying 200m TT some 3 seconds faster than I ever could.

Yep, power is definitely the more important factor for cycling (hence why bodybuilders dont make great track sprinters), but the neurology might still be worth the time spent.. I use the gym two hours/week for lactate tolerance and neuron power. I've also been shown a study on osteoporosis in master cyclists, and it was showing the results of testing done on recreational, endurance, and sprint cyclists. Recreational showed the highest levels of development in the study by far..
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:25 pm

Shaolin_stud wrote:Hey Alex,

You raise a good point. Here is a question for you: "For someone that doesn't have the kind of fitness and strength of a multi season rider (I've only been riding for about 6 months) how would they go about improving the most efficently?"

Improving what? Endurance cycling performance? In short: Ride more. consistency, progressive overload, good diet and recovery. enjoy it.
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Re: Training from 30 Km to 80 Km Sydney - Gong

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:28 pm

Wayfarer wrote:I've also been shown a study on osteoporosis in master cyclists, and it was showing the results of testing done on recreational, endurance, and sprint cyclists. Recreational showed the highest levels of development in the study by far..

Well just about any training will help the untrained. When I talk about performance improvement, I'm talking about trained cyclists.

I dunno about osteo but for bone mineral density you are better off with exercises that provide some level of "jarring" of the skeletal system, like jogging, than weightlifting which doesn't have much impact on BMD.
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