Indoor trainer - training routine

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Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Fri May 21, 2010 2:27 pm

Warmup

15 minutes, changeing up through the gear, warming up (surprise!)

Repeat parts 1, 2, 3 twice.

Part 1 - Power\endurance (37 minutes)

2 minutes semi-high intensity, 2 minutes recovery
7x 3 minutes max-intensity, 1 minutes recovery
final recovery is for 5 minutes to get the HR down.

Part 2 - Technique (25 minutes)

10 x 30 second sets of ONE LEG ONLY Drills - 5 repetitions per leg. Duration can increase to 2-5 minutes at high cadence.
2 minutes easy spin (AT) 90 cadence
5 x SPIN UPS - in a very easy/low gear, 30 seconds to accelorate from 80 to MAX cadence, maintain for 30 seconds, 30 seconds recovery
2 minutes easy spin (AT) 90 cadence
5x POWER ACCELERATIONS in your highest gear, stay seated but explode into the pedalling for 30 seconds then dial down the gears and recover for 1 minute

Part 3 - Endurance (25 minutes)
5 minutes easy spin to get HR to 80% max.
20 minutes consistant cycling (AT) 80% max HR - not that hard but should be difficult to maintain after Parts 1 and 2.

Cool down
10 minutes changeing down through the gears.

Sound about right? Total is 3 hours of workout + 20 minutes of warm up\cool down.

My goal is to improve my avg speed over the 120-150km distance
* from 29km\hr (measured on public road conditions with lights\traffic, etc)
* to 35km\hr.

At 40km distance I would like to learn to keep it up over 40 (currently mid 30s is achievable under race conditions).
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by BNA » Fri May 21, 2010 2:39 pm

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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby tripstobaltimore » Fri May 21, 2010 2:39 pm

don't know if this helps, but its a good site anyway:

http://www.turbotraining.co.uk/
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Fri May 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Really good website.

Bit of information overload though.

I will stick to mine for a few weeks but will be going over that website to find variations, etc.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Fri May 21, 2010 2:51 pm

It even does the timing for you - can put it on next to the TV and just do the highlighted row as it goers step by step.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 21, 2010 3:50 pm

Actually to me is sounds like a bit of a joke.
Where did that program come from?.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby WonkyWheels » Sat May 22, 2010 7:08 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Actually to me is sounds like a bit of a joke.


+1

Who spends over 3 hours on a trainer? You need to be brain dead......even with videos/music.

One leg only drills are also silly imo.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Sat May 22, 2010 7:19 pm

WonkyWheels wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Actually to me is sounds like a bit of a joke.


+1

Who spends over 3 hours on a trainer? You need to be brain dead......even with videos/music.

One leg only drills are also silly imo.


I hear ou abpout it being a joke plan - I am reviewing that new website which has lots of plans and a rating system, etc.

Lots of triathletes, etc, do spend long sessions on their trainers though. I am training for Ironman.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby toolonglegs » Sat May 22, 2010 9:29 pm

Personal opinion here...and not aimed at you clownboy...just me thinking aloud.

Lots of Tri-athletes might do long sessions on the trainer...does not mean they know what they are doing.

Sorry but the strength / endurance part is stupid...it is a VO2 workout...or at least it wants to be.
3 minutes at approx 115% of your ftp (steady throughout the entire 3 minutes...hard but not as hard mentally as a 5 minute session).Rest for 2-3 minutes and repeat.Yes bloody good workout if done properly...finish off with 20 minutes at sweet spot,eat and rest.

Technique...can you pedal or not?...yes?...simple...forget it.
Why are you doing Psuedo sprint workouts (bad ones at that) when ALL that matters in a Ironman is how high a % of your ftp you can hold for 5 hours....PERIOD.
One legged techniques ffs!!!.

Endurance Part....forget it and do VO2 type workouts some days....FTP level workouts others.
Sorry just because you spend 3 hours on the trainer doesn't mean it is benificial...100% gaurantee someone working on their FTP 90 minutes 4 to 5 days a week will kick your arse.
Do your 90-120minutes....eat and recover.Don't wear yourself out doing this workout...after all you have two other disciplines to look after too.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby JV911 » Tue May 25, 2010 8:54 am

^^^^wise words from the big fella

couldnt imagine doing 3 hours on a trainer :shock:

training for ironman? focus on what's relevant for ironman
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 9:09 am

JV911 wrote:training for ironman? focus on what's relevant for ironman


I did - today was my first session.

I picked out a 90 minute endurance session from that website.

5 min (AT) to 70 cadence
4x15 minutes (AT) 90-110 cadence
1x20 minutes (AT) 90-110 cadence
5 min cooling down

The 5 blocks in the middle had different target heart rates but basically it was permanently below 85%.

I found it a really good workout. I was in my gym so have 2 smal windows, 2 very decent fans going, Sherlock Holmes on the telly in front and the PC next to it beeping at the end of each block. Still sweated my ass off so was ditching my jersey, etc. Am glad I thought to fill up both water bottles exactly as if I was going for a normal ride.

My HR was consistantly below the target HR. I had the resistance dialled reasonably high so my cadence was around 85-95 so it was a bit low also.

But it was an experimental session. I plan on keeping the resistance at that setting and getting my cadence up a bit higher so I hit that 90-110 bandwidth for the whole thing before I dial it up any further.

I am happy to keep training with my HR where it was (around 75%).

That will be my Thursday morning sessions (today was a rain out so I did it today).

I will add in 1 or 2 shorter sprint sessions to get my Vo2Max up. (I will use the website tool but the plans I saw on this subject are basically exactly what TLL said.)
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby sogood » Tue May 25, 2010 9:47 am

toolonglegs wrote:Sorry just because you spend 3 hours on the trainer doesn't mean it is benificial...100% gaurantee someone working on their FTP 90 minutes 4 to 5 days a week will kick your arse.

That's really the crux of the matter. Training efficiency.

One can train hours and hours for day after day using whatever training program. Yes, the rider will improve for sure just by the fact that they've been on the bike for so long. But the power training concept from Coggan gave a frame work that provided optimal efficiency b/n outcome and time spent... I like!
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby sogood » Tue May 25, 2010 9:51 am

ClownBoy wrote:I picked out a 90 minute endurance session from that website.

5 min (AT) to 70 cadence
4x15 minutes (AT) 90-110 cadence
1x20 minutes (AT) 90-110 cadence
5 min cooling down

The 5 blocks in the middle had different target heart rates but basically it was permanently below 85%.

I found it a really good workout.

Hardly convincing.

What's the point of those intervals at HR<85%? What's the difference b/n 15min vs 20min intervals? What's the basis for considering it being a "really good" workout? AFAIK, 1.5hrs of riding is hardly an endurance ride. :roll:
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 10:06 am

Endurance is 5 hours plus on the road. Everyone told me to keep it shorter on the trainer.

As far as <85 hr, the ironman coaches I spoke to advocate learning to race with the lower hr so you can last for 10 hours.

And I am not trying to convince you of anything - just trying to work out a new part of my routine.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby sogood » Tue May 25, 2010 10:16 am

ClownBoy wrote:Endurance is 5 hours plus on the road. Everyone told me to keep it shorter on the trainer.
As far as <85 hr, the ironman coaches I spoke to advocate learning to race with the lower hr so you can last for 10 hours.

Doesn't make sense. HR<85% may be necessary to sustain for 10 hours, but why for 1.5hr?

Not trying to put you off how you like to train, but I think some more critical thinking is required to better structure your training. For me and many others, reading into the power training concept put forward by Dr Coggan has been an eye opener in understanding training. Maybe you should do the same.

IMHO, too many "training programs" are out there make fancy activities and then ensures the participants is sweated out by the end of the session. Yes, a common criteria on quality of workout by the lay person is how sweated out they are. :roll:
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 10:57 am

sogood wrote:Not trying to put you off how you like to train, but I think some more critical thinking is required to better structure your training. For me and many others, reading into the power training concept put forward by Dr Coggan has been an eye opener in understanding training. Maybe you should do the same.

IMHO, too many "training programs" are out there make fancy activities and then ensures the participants is sweated out by the end of the session. Yes, a common criteria on quality of workout by the lay person is how sweated out they are. :roll:


Well I am happy with the rest of my training routine because I have a swim coach, a running coach and my running coach has done several Ironman so he comments on my cycle training. However he has never been much of an indoor trainer person.

I am just learning about the indoor trainer and how to incorporate it.

I heard you reference Dr Coggan before - however I need to keep training while I find his materials and have a read.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby JV911 » Tue May 25, 2010 1:49 pm

sogood wrote:Doesn't make sense. HR<85% may be necessary to sustain for 10 hours, but why for 1.5hr?


could one maintain >85% of max HR/Watts for 1.5hr?

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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby sogood » Tue May 25, 2010 2:31 pm

JV911 wrote:
sogood wrote:Doesn't make sense. HR<85% may be necessary to sustain for 10 hours, but why for 1.5hr?
could one maintain >85% of max HR/Watts for 1.5hr?

It's for the 5 interval segments, not for a continuous 1.5hr block. Further, IF the suggestion of 85% HR sustained for 10hrs is true (race effort), then said athlete shouldn't have a problem at 85% for 1.5hr, right? :wink:
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 2:49 pm

sogood wrote:
JV911 wrote:
sogood wrote:Doesn't make sense. HR<85% may be necessary to sustain for 10 hours, but why for 1.5hr?
could one maintain >85% of max HR/Watts for 1.5hr?

It's for the 5 interval segments, not for a continuous 1.5hr block. Further, IF the suggestion of 85% HR sustained for 10hrs is true (race effort), then said athlete shouldn't have a problem at 85% for 1.5hr, right? :wink:


The 5 segments add up to 10 minutes less than the full 1.5 hour block.

And I said I had to stay under 85% the whole time. Not at 85%.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby mikesbytes » Tue May 25, 2010 2:52 pm

I prefer to do 20 second maximum cadence sprints when using a trainer or rollers
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 3:02 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I prefer to do 20 second maximum cadence sprints when using a trainer or rollers


I assume you don't hop on for 20 seconds and hop off ... do you do them at random intervals or what?
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby sogood » Tue May 25, 2010 3:16 pm

ClownBoy wrote:The 5 segments add up to 10 minutes less than the full 1.5 hour block.
And I said I had to stay under 85% the whole time. Not at 85%.

Then the instruction is grossly ambiguous. Why state 4x15min (AT) 90-110 cadence when 1x60mins would have been simpler? As for 4x15 + 1x20, why not just say 1x80mins? Per notation, I would have expected rests b/n those 15 and 20min intervals.

By power training criteria, 85% HR would have only been tempo pace, easily expected to be sustained for an hour or more.
Last edited by sogood on Tue May 25, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby mikesbytes » Tue May 25, 2010 3:19 pm

ClownBoy wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:I prefer to do 20 second maximum cadence sprints when using a trainer or rollers


I assume you don't hop on for 20 seconds and hop off ... do you do them at random intervals or what?


Generally when I do them, which isn't very often, after warming up, I do a 20 max cadence sprint followed by 40 second rest. 10 or 12 of them.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 25, 2010 3:22 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I prefer to do 20 second maximum cadence sprints when using a trainer or rollers


Yes..but you are trackie...Clownboy isn't going to do a single max cadence sprint in a 5 hour ironman.He needs to find his best sustainable power zone and pace himself perfectly for 180km's.But in training he needs to rise his ftp ceiling because in that 5 hours he will only ever be able to hold a % of his FTP.So the higher his ftp,the faster he will ride 5 hours.He will still suffer the same level but 70% of a 300w ftp is a lot quicker than 70% of a 270w ftp.

WT? am I talking about?...if CB get his FTP up to 300w (for example)...he could realistically hold 70% of that power for 180kms = 210w av.
If he trains at sub maximal pace for the majority of his training (endurance pace stuff)...he won't raise his ftp to anywhere near the same degree.
So say a ftp of 270w (10% lower)....70% of 270w is 189w av for 180km...that is a lot slower of 180km's :wink: .

After that all that matters is nutrition / hydration and a perfect pacing stratergy...which means yes you will have to do some long rides at race pace to nail that.I expect there are some half ironmans that are perfect for that.

OK I am waffling but I am just jealous...I would give anything to be physically capable of doing an IM. :oops:
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby ClownBoy » Tue May 25, 2010 4:08 pm

sogood wrote:
ClownBoy wrote:The 5 segments add up to 10 minutes less than the full 1.5 hour block.
And I said I had to stay under 85% the whole time. Not at 85%.

Then the instruction is grossly ambiguous. Why state 4x15min (AT) 90-110 cadence when 1x60mins would have been simpler? As for 4x15 + 1x20, why not just say 1x80mins? Per notation, I would have expected rests b/n those 15 and 20min intervals.

By power training criteria, 85% HR would have only been tempo pace, easily expected to be sustained for an hour or more.


Read the whole thing.

This was on there also - The 5 blocks in the middle had different target heart rates but basically it was permanently below 85%.

So each block was a bit different. I found it good because it made me get re-engaged. Each 15 minutes I got an alert and I stepped it up slightly, or down, etc.
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Re: Indoor trainer - training routine

Postby orphic » Tue May 25, 2010 4:09 pm

This is a little OT, but is there any way to estimate and track changes in ones FTP without actually using a power meter?
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