The Heart Rate Thread

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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Mustang » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:01 am

mikesbytes wrote:Ok next question

Heart rate used to measure calorie burn

My Garmin 500 has measured the last 16.24 hours at 6558 calories burned = 403 per hour :lol:
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by BNA » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:31 pm

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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:31 pm

I'm beginning to see less and less value in a heart rate monitor, except for lengthy efforts on the road.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Solirossi » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:39 pm

So i have just started using a HR monitor over the last month or so, I have a question about max HR.

Im 27 so the formula loosley suggests that my max HR should be about 193.

I have found on my rides that im constantly sitting in the 170's and even the low 180's. I figured I was just unfit and was struggling to produce power whilst keeping my HR near its threshold (approx 164bpm)

But a few days ago I had a short 40km but intense ride with some climbing and on the way back home there is a flat 3km stretch that I gunned it on, I went as hard as I could for about a minuet and my HR got up to 219! I felt like I was going to pop but it was nothing too drastic, within about a minuet of rolling out of it I was back to 150odd.

So should that high HR number concern me? I get that max HR can fluctuate, depending on if a bear jumps out of a bush and you freak out/ride off etc... but this effort was intense but im sure a lot of you guys would be able to make yourself suffer a lot mroe than I can. Should I see a doctor or is this something that is an advnatage?? Any info would be appreciated.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby brendancg » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Im 27 so the formula loosley suggests that my max HR should be about 193.


There is a number of ways to calculate Max HR. Not all of them overly accurate.

I have found on my rides that im constantly sitting in the 170's and even the low 180's.


Different peoples bodies react differently to exercise. I can exercise with a mate and be both putting in the same effort (Puffing and struggling to talk except to say yes or no) and his HR will be in 150's mine in 170's. We are both the same age and fitness levels.

I went as hard as I could for about a minuet and my HR got up to 219


I would suggest an error with the HRM, either interference or not sitting properly. Also different quality HRM read better than others.

As previously mentioned on this thread use HR as a guide but it should not be the only guide to use on your efforts.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:44 pm

Solirossi wrote:So i have just started using a HR monitor over the last month or so, I have a question about max HR.

Im 27 so the formula loosley suggests that my max HR should be about 193.

I have found on my rides that im constantly sitting in the 170's and even the low 180's. I figured I was just unfit and was struggling to produce power whilst keeping my HR near its threshold (approx 164bpm)

But a few days ago I had a short 40km but intense ride with some climbing and on the way back home there is a flat 3km stretch that I gunned it on, I went as hard as I could for about a minuet and my HR got up to 219! I felt like I was going to pop but it was nothing too drastic, within about a minuet of rolling out of it I was back to 150odd.

So should that high HR number concern me? I get that max HR can fluctuate, depending on if a bear jumps out of a bush and you freak out/ride off etc... but this effort was intense but im sure a lot of you guys would be able to make yourself suffer a lot mroe than I can. Should I see a doctor or is this something that is an advnatage?? Any info would be appreciated.

There is no formula to calculate HRmax for an individual. There are formula for population averages which have a standard deviation of about 15 beats.

The only way to determine HRmax is to do an effort on a bike to elicit a max HR response. It also needs to be repeatable so that erroneous data readings can be eliminated.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Solirossi » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:52 pm

So i suppose if I did a similar effort on the same stretch of road on the way home from a resonable ride and get the same number on several occasions it would be safe to assume that is an accurate number.

Also in regard to brendancg's point re faulty reading or bad signal would multiple efforts on different days producing a similar number rule this out?

ANd if it does seem that is the number my heart is working at, should I be concerned. Or is the single HR figure, even if high at 219 or similar, to obsqure a stat to take any merit or concern from?
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:50 am

Solirossi wrote:So i suppose if I did a similar effort on the same stretch of road on the way home from a resonable ride and get the same number on several occasions it would be safe to assume that is an accurate number.

No, since you need to rule out the possibility that something is interfering with your HRM on that stretch of road. Suggest looking for repeatability elsewhere as well.

Solirossi wrote:Also in regard to brendancg's point re faulty reading or bad signal would multiple efforts on different days producing a similar number rule this out?

If your HRM downloads to a computer and enables you to view the HR trace, then it's usually pretty easy to see the differences between erroneous HR spikes and what is likely to be valid data. HR data is often full of erroneous readings for various reasons.

Solirossi wrote:ANd if it does seem that is the number my heart is working at, should I be concerned. Or is the single HR figure, even if high at 219 or similar, to obsqure a stat to take any merit or concern from?

You HRmax is what it is. Provided you don't have a medical condition, then you simply work relative to your own level and not to someone else's (or a population average) level.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby wce » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:46 pm

Solirossi, Im 45 and regularly hit 203bpm on hard efforts, you just have a hummingbird heart, nothing to worry about if you are recovering quickly
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Solirossi » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:54 pm

thanks wce, good to hear others have similar charachteristics.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Strawburger » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:58 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I'm beginning to see less and less value in a heart rate monitor, except for lengthy efforts on the road.


I was interesting remembering when i looked down to find out the (theoretical*) instantaneous HR during the race last weekend. All three times it was when i needed reassurance i had not redlined - nearing the apex of the climb both times and once when i was attempting to get on the back of the bunch. I somehow needed to know mentally i had a bit left in me to push harder.

As for training rides, i seem to constantly look down to check how i am doing even though i am not needing or wanting to go flat out.

* - i realise the instant readout of HR is slightly behind reality
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby brentono » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:35 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I've seen a lot of differing views on heart rates. It seems that some see the measurement of heart rates as an essential part of their training while others don't consider it all. Some believe in zones, some know their max rates but how do they know if its truly their max rates.

So let the debate commence


Mikesbytes,
Since I have this over in another thread, it might as well go here as well (maybe more appropriate) :)

There was an historic theory (which I had confirmed with a couple of major international coaches, of the period)

... the theory went (and you are all probably quite familiar with it) that your resting heart rate (RHR),
when you awoke was an indicator of your fitness progression, and was relative to you in particular
(each individual being different) and as you progressed, the rest rate became lower.
The indicator of cardiac strain, was the morning you awoke,
was when it (RHR) was higher than your personal progressive normal RHR,
and that would indicate, a rest or light training day.

Would you agree with this?

From my experience, this is the only area where heart rate becomes relevent.
It was said, when I was using this method, that Eddy Merckx had a RHR of around low 30's,
and I thought I reached my own personal level of peak fitness, and never got anywhere near this RHR
(around the mid/high 40's was mine)... we are all different.

Let me know your thoughts.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:59 pm

My resting heart rate is in the mid 30's...I haven't trained since mid May...hardly ridden full stop since then...my resting heart rate is still mid 30's,probably low 30's if I really took a lie down and relaxed with the aim of getting it very low.The professor I saw a couple of weeks ago was surprised at my heart rate...he said most of the pro's he see's (which is a lot ) are not that low.
The cardiologist I saw last December said I had a large elongated heart...fairly common in endurance athletes but that I have a leaky valve as well.
I reckon I am 15 kilos over weight at the moment...seems that heart rate just varies too much person to person to take any value full stop comparing yourself to others.
I know my max is about 193-5 bpm.But if I sit around 170 av for more than 5 minutes then I am close to the limit.But I don't get out of the so called "recovery" heart rate zone until I am well into the tempo power zone...if I trained to Joe Friel's (or others) zones I would find it very hard.Thats why I went to "perceived effort" intervals before I bought a power meter...that worked much better than all the years I had stuck to HR zones.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:30 pm

Strawburger, from this discussion, efforts like last weekend's race the heart rate does give data. For me personally I have doubts as to what it would provide me, my issue with the hill was not so much about max heart rate but other issues. Ken Dinnerval where the hill is shorter, I'm able to power over it. My comment above was to do with short interval training.

Resting heart rate. Doesn't that also depend on what kind of heart you have? I've only had my resting heart rate measured once and it sat on 80bpm. Admittedly I was sitting in a hospital bed with a punctured lung and a bunch of broken ribs.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby Strawburger » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:05 am

mikesbytes wrote:My comment above was to do with short interval training.
.


Ah, i see now. I took your comment out of context :oops: Pays to read the entire thread!
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby brentono » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:24 am

mikesbytes wrote:
Resting heart rate. Doesn't that also depend on what kind of heart you have? I've only had my resting heart rate measured once and it sat on 80bpm. Admittedly I was sitting in a hospital bed with a punctured lung and a bunch of broken ribs.


Mikesbytes,
Firstly to all, with this method the point is you are not comparing to anyone else (EM was just an example, OK)
We are all different, doesn't matter what type of heart you have (you just need to have one :) )
Each morning, as you awake, you take you resting heart rate (RHR) and record it, if you are training/riding
regularly, this will give you a progression, of readings, and the theory goes, as you get fitter, the figure
will decrease, to you personally. Un-usually high days figure, is indicator of cardiac strain and means you
are over tired, and should probably rest, or train light. These figures are relative to you only, and are not
a comparison against anybody else. Hope that make it clearer, for those who are having difficulty.
The fitter you are, after exertion, at your personal HRmax, the faster your body gets back to your RHR,
your own fitness level. This is from my experience, this is when the measurement of heart rates
is an essential part of their training, and probably the only part.
Just my own thoughts, from personal experience.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:58 am

Thanks Brentono

I originally started this thread to gain understanding on the application of heart rate monitors. The feedback has shown to me that heart rate isn't particularly interesting for short interval training but there seems to be some value in road training and racing.

Resting heart rate is another topic and I must admit I haven't taken a lot of interest in it. I agree you shouldn't compare with others.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby brentono » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:38 am

Mikesbytes,
No worries, hope the info has been of interest. :)
The only equipment required for this method, is a watch (with seconds),
next to your bed, a record book/pen, and the ability to take your own pulse. :wink:
Too simple, eh!
(and probably of little interest to the nerdy, dreamers,
who think money will get them into the "zone" :roll: )
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:37 pm

Thanks Brentono will do.

I'm tempted to buy some new batteries for my heart rate monitor, more out of curiosity rather than analysis.

There's a term which describes where the heart tends to beat harder rather than faster to increase blood flow, yeh I know it still beats faster, but for the life of me its escaped me what it is.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby brentono » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:

There's a term which describes where the heart tends to beat harder rather than faster to increase blood flow


Not sure of the term you are after, but cyclist's hearts tends to beat harder to increase blood flow.
That's True, more volume. Many cyclists tend to have large hearts, after many years, of hard racing and training.

More than half of elite professional cyclists apparently have an enlarged heart chamber.
http://www.goodhealth.nu/News_Articles/040715_top_cyclists.htm

Also, the values obtained for left ventricular internal diameter and for left ventricular volume at enddiastole
in the cyclists are larger than the values reported in long distance runners' and basketball players,
which emphasises the high degree of cardiac dilatation in well trained professional cyclists,
and is even larger than the values reported in wrestlers and shot putters.
(coming from a University Ghent paper, Non-invasive evaluation of cardiac function in professional cyclists)

Hope that gives you a bit more info. 8)
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby arkle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:05 pm

Cardiomyopathy?

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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby brentono » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:36 am

arkle wrote:Cardiomyopathy?

arkle


Cardiomyopathy is actually used when refering to heart disease, we are talking about
fit, healthy, sportspeople, usually professional cyclists and the term for Enlarged Heart
is Cardiomegaly, and is common in up to 50% of this group.
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby arkle » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:50 pm

A double post sorry but I think it's interesting. I just got my Garmin Edge 500 and it's great fun.

You can disable the GPS function and record your heart rate while you're sleeping!

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The spikes and different stable levels are something to do with REM sleep and sleep phase transitions. I must dream a lot in the second half of the night.

A good way to figure out your resting heart rate perhaps.

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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:31 pm

Interesting

The more you look at things like heart rate, the more complex (in an interesting way) the topic is
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:10 pm

Almost tempted to buy this cheapie Polar heart rate monitor but I might hang out for a Garmin package or the like

http://www.1-day.com.au/products/NQMMBN0HR
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Re: The Heart Rate Thread

Postby snark » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:51 pm

Be aware that the cheapest of the Polar's have almost no features . I grabbed one for a day or two to replace a $30 Echowell that was giving random readings, but took it back. From memory, it couldn't pause and it was missing lots of basic data (I think even things like Max HR - it might have just had average HR).

Very happy with my Garmin 500 now. :)

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