Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

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Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby one_damo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:44 pm

Hi All,

Wondering if you can give some advice - I'm about to sign up for the Fitz Challenge ( http://www.ocf-fitz.com/ ) in October later this year and as I'm looking at the 160km ride, I'm more and more thinking about the late preparation I can do to help cope (a little bit at least) with the 2300m of climbing.

Unfortunately it's relatively flat in Sydney, so just a thought: Is it a good idea to simulate hills by throwing it in one of the top 3 gears and grinding along at 60-80rpm for regular intervals? Is this at all beneficial for hill climbing even to help the quads adjust to putting more power down? This would probably mash the knees up good and proper I'm guessing.. :?: I guess the other option would be to do repeats of the more common 1 and 2km hills in Sydney?

Thanks.
Damian.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:56 pm

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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby goneriding » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:56 pm

I'd be inclined (pun intended) to hit the Gorges for hill training. Try riding up to Katoomba as well. You can catch the train to Penrith and ride from there. It is about 100km round trip with 2,000m of climbing.

The thing your body needs to get used to is settling into a rhythm when climbing. If it doesn't climbing won't be fun like it should be :)
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:58 pm

Plenty of 4km long hills in Sydney...great for 10 minute efforts...do the rest on the flats into the wind.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby JV911 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:37 pm

i'm doing the Fitz Challenge too!

one_damo wrote:Location: Epping, Sydney


hill repeats at akuna* or bobbin head! :mrgreen:

*there is a TT on this sunday if you're keen

goneriding wrote:climbing won't be fun like it should be :)


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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby philip » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:36 pm

JV911 wrote:hill repeats at akuna*
*there is a TT on this sunday if you're keen

It's on the 8th August, not this Sunday, according to the mwcc site - are you doing it? I'm "thinking" about it
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby one_damo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:17 pm

Interesting, overlooked those. Might just have to get out to Akuna/West Head regularly from now on.

Any comments RE: high geared mashing on the flats? Or should I forget that idea? :oops:
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby Chuck » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:56 am

toolonglegs wrote:4km long hills...great for 10 minute efforts...


:shock:
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:11 am

Chuck wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:4km long hills...great for 10 minute efforts...


:shock:



Bobbin Head Sth 4km.... 8m38secs
Brooklyn to Pie in the Sky 3.95km... 8m21secs
Akuna West 5.2km... 11m18secs
McCarrs 4.2km... 10m26secs

Obviously depends who you are :lol: ...they aren't my times btw!...McCarrs seems a bit slow thou,I can nearly get to 11m45secs.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby JV911 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:50 am

philip wrote:
JV911 wrote:hill repeats at akuna*
*there is a TT on this sunday if you're keen

It's on the 8th August, not this Sunday, according to the mwcc site - are you doing it? I'm "thinking" about it


bugger i though it was this week - first i was looking forward to the enduro at WSID but either i got my dates wrong or that's been canned in favour of landsdown crit and now this :oops:

what's this "thinking" business phil?
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby philip » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:29 pm

JV911 wrote:what's this "thinking" business phil?

I waiting to be convinced :)
My thinking is that for a hillclimb TT, only good hillclimbers are going to participate in the first place, and I do ok in the hills but I'm definitely not the fastest! I guess it's good for interests sake, but then again I could just go and time myself up there without paying $10!
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby JV911 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:27 am

so i'll see you there then :)
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby philip » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:41 am

Yeah I'll be there, I've been convinced :) A mate was saying since it probably goes towards club championship points there'll be plenty of non hillclimbers giving it a go.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby goneriding » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:01 pm

Also try riding down to the Parra River and doing some climbs up to Victoria Rd in Meadowbank and Putney. The hills are not overly long but some of them do have a bit of bite.

If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby Robdog » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:57 pm

goneriding wrote:If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.

I don't understand how that helps your body become better at climbing hills
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:04 pm

Robdog wrote:
goneriding wrote:If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.

I don't understand how that helps your body become better at climbing hills

and with good reason, it won't.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby goneriding » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:50 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:and with good reason, it won't.


I stand corrected! That said, would putting the front wheel up help in finding the right climbing position?
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby silkishuge » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:09 pm

I use the static trainer for some strength training exercises and that has helped me become a all round better cyclist, but I am not sure if it has specifically helped me with climbing hills. In strength training exercise, I do simulate something like a hill climb...... I start with a gear that prevents me from spinning comfortably, I need extra strength and I will push myself to keep up a cadence of 95rpm. HR is typically around 85% of max after a few mins. I do this for 10mins, than increase the gearing by one and aim to keep cadence at 90rpm for 8mins, than gradually, you will be at 1 min and I think I will be at 50-12 by that stage( my static trainer bike uses a compact crank set). Cadence will be between 60 to 67 rpm and I will need to get off the saddle. I don't recommend getting off the saddle on a trainer but it seems to work for me. I have noticed that I am stronger going up hills as I can push harder gears while in the pass, I would spin up hills. The end result is a slightly faster time on short climbs (<5km) no noticable changes on longer climbs (>12km)

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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby brentono » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:43 pm

goneriding wrote:
If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.


Today's "Classic Statement" (and it doesn't come from C.T.) :lol:
(now got to go clean all the coffee over the computer) :cry:
Thanks for that, always need a laugh.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby JV911 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:11 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Robdog wrote:
goneriding wrote:If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.

I don't understand how that helps your body become better at climbing hills

and with good reason, it won't.


not in itself. i think it's a positioning thing, which combined with some big gear work "simulates" a hill...at least that's what coach troy reckon on spinervals :D
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby silkishuge » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:24 am

JV911 wrote:If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.
I don't understand how that helps your body become better at climbing hills
and with good reason, it won't.

not in itself. i think it's a positioning thing, which combined with some big gear work "simulates" a hill...at least that's what coach troy reckon on spinervals :D


You might be on to something there. I am not sure if the change in the position of the body will result in different muscles working at different intensity when compared against riding in the flats.

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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby brentono » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:31 am

So (coach troy) if I stick my static trainer (rollers) at a 45 degree (sideways), along my wall,
and ride at that angle, the position of the body will result in different muscles
working at different intensity, and I can simulate riding around the Track (Velodrome) :?: :?
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby human909 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:10 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Robdog wrote:
goneriding wrote:If you have a static trainer you can put the front wheel up on a couple of books and do it that way.

I don't understand how that helps your body become better at climbing hills

and with good reason, it won't.


brentono wrote:Today's "Classic Statement" (and it doesn't come from C.T.) :lol:
(now got to go clean all the coffee over the computer) :cry:
Thanks for that, always need a laugh.
Cheers,
BrentonO


The best piece of advice in the entire thread an you guys think its a joke! :roll:

What do you think makes hills hard? They aren't magical. There are two aspects that make hill climbing difficult.
One is running out of gears and being forced to pedal at a lower cadence.
The other is the change in body angle.

The first one can be removed by having some sensible gearing. The second you want to train for to build up core strength. Putting the front of static trainer on some books is great and exactly how you would train for hills on a static trainer.

brentono wrote:So (coach troy) if I stick my static trainer (rollers) at a 45 degree (sideways), along my wall,
and ride at that angle, the position of the body will result in different muscles
working at different intensity, and I can simulate riding around the Track (Velodrome) :?: :?

No because the whole point of banking is that you should be riding at a speed where your bike is actually perpedicular to the banked surface thus it is equivalent to riding on a flat surface. Thus banking should put you body into a MORE neutral position.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:31 pm

And heres me thinking climbing hills was hard because of gravity...seems I just need to adjust my bars a bit.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby human909 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:40 pm

toolonglegs wrote:And heres me thinking climbing hills was hard because of gravity...seems I just need to adjust my bars a bit.


No. The gravity aspect just makes it harder to maintain the same speed. :wink:

With appropriate gearing then you can continue the same power output and the same cadence and the only thing that makes it difficult is the changing body angle.
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Re: Hill climbing simulation on flats - possible?

Postby brentono » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:53 am

human909 wrote:
brentono wrote:So (coach troy) if I stick my static trainer (rollers) at a 45 degree (sideways), along my wall,
and ride at that angle, the position of the body will result in different muscles
working at different intensity, and I can simulate riding around the Track (Velodrome) :?: :?

No because the whole point of banking is that you should be riding at a speed where your bike is actually perpedicular to the banked surface thus it is equivalent to riding on a flat surface. Thus banking should put you body into a MORE neutral position.

So as gravity has no effect on hills. :roll:
Then Centrifugal force must have no effect also, and the banking should put my body into a MORE neutral position,
equivalent to riding on a flat surface... that's what you are saying, correct. :?
So what body position am I in, on the straights, when the surface is almost level?
Does my position, vary. :?:
(Is that you "coach troy")
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