Cadence....discuss

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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby wheels46 » Fri May 06, 2011 9:30 am

While we're being nostalgic here's a rare vid of the great John Nicholson... Didn't film this but was lucky enough to be there on the day as a 13 year old. Check Nicho's acceleration !! A great world champ until he busted his leg rather badly. :D

I'd love a dollar for every punter I saw slip on Coburg's way too steep banking (including myself) :lol:

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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Fri May 06, 2011 3:43 pm

wheels46 wrote:... Didn't film this but was lucky enough to be there on the day as a 13 year old.


Then you may know who "Nico" was sprinting against, in the green Australian Champions jersey. :?:
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby foo on patrol » Fri May 06, 2011 7:28 pm

Watch the 1982 Keirin final with Singleton and Danny Clark and you will understand how much, bike handling comes into control and powering up quickly. 8)
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby mikesbytes » Fri May 06, 2011 8:52 pm

brentono wrote:Personally, I had my Track/Road (built the same) and Fixie, all setup exactly the same.
Thereby becoming accustomed to all the same positions, and same pedal actions for good cadence.
Consistent Subliminal Reinforcement for "rhythm". 8)
Cheers
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I agree, but I'm stuck with the 175 cranks on the indoor spin bikes
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby mikesbytes » Fri May 06, 2011 8:54 pm

wheels46 wrote:While we're being nostalgic here's a rare vid of the great John Nicholson... Didn't film this but was lucky enough to be there on the day as a 13 year old. Check Nicho's acceleration !! A great world champ until he busted his leg rather badly. :D

I'd love a dollar for every punter I saw slip on Coburg's way too steep banking (including myself) :lol:



Off topic
1. is that those pedals that were integrated into the shoes? What happened to them.
2. what's with the Madison change overs?
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby bp2 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:42 am

Off Topic
1. Send an email to the President of the Blackburn Cycling Club and 'Nico' himself might be able to tell you what happened to the shoes he had bolted or welded to his pedals. Probably the first person to use clipless pedals.
2. Before lycra was invented the cycling shorts had limited stretch. A baton was inserted into a pocket located inside the shorts. Some shorts had a criss cross of stiching accross the back panel to further limit the stretch during changes. I seem to remember alot of wool shorts although other materials were used. In my opinion the element of risk is slightly less in this type of madison change than the more powerful hand to hand.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby wheels46 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:43 am

brentono wrote:Then you may know who "Nico" was sprinting against, in the green Australian Champions jersey. :?:
:mrgreen:


Nah sorry being close to 35 years ago it escapes me... He looks bloody familiar though. I first thought it was Ron Boyle but I don't think so ?? :?

If you know feel free to spill the beans as I'd really like to know. :D

What I do remember quite clearly is that Nicho had come over from a European winter and we all commented on his lilly white legs at the time. But you can cut a two time world champion and olympic medallist a bit of slack !! :lol:
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Sat May 07, 2011 10:10 am

wheels46 wrote:
brentono wrote:Then you may know who "Nico" was sprinting against, in the green Australian Champions jersey. :?:
:mrgreen:


Nah sorry being close to 35 years ago it escapes me... He looks bloody familiar though. I first thought it was Ron Boyle but I don't think so ?? :?

If you know feel free to spill the beans as I'd really like to know. :D

What I do remember quite clearly is that Nicho had come over from a European winter and we all commented on his lilly white legs at the time. But you can cut a two time world champion and olympic medallist a bit of slack !! :lol:


Know the era well, and it's a Pro Australian Jersey, so a Pro Sprint (so not Boyle)... the film is rough.
My first guess was Grant Atkins... but I'm not sure, maybe others know.
:mrgreen:

Edit: Think "Nico" was disrupted in his Cycling, from a broken hip. :?:
Last edited by brentono on Sat May 07, 2011 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Sat May 07, 2011 10:51 am

mikesbytes wrote:
Off topic
1. is that those pedals that were integrated into the shoes? What happened to them.
2. what's with the Madison change overs?


1. Nico's were bolted to the shoes, an early Cinelli model that he "engineered"
Soon after, I used Cinelli's later model the M71 "Suicide Pedals"
Image

2. Madison change over or "sling" was common (and much safer than full-arm)
as BP2 pointed out, the wool-knicks were re-inforced, and had an inner pocket.
The "sausage" was inserted, inside your knicks, and you grabbed your team-mates,
swung through, then pushed, in the change.
The sausage was rolled up paper/taped, or rolled up socks, pretty makeshift. :)
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby mikesbytes » Sat May 07, 2011 1:37 pm

The only Madison changeover I've done is where you grab the other riders arm and sling him forward
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby wheels46 » Sat May 07, 2011 4:44 pm

Yep saw them do the sling that way at the Bendigo Madison many years ago and I can safely add that no rider ever grabbed the wrong "sausage" on changeovers !! :lol:
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby wheels46 » Sat May 07, 2011 4:53 pm

brentono wrote:
wheels46 wrote:
brentono wrote:
Know the era well, and it's a Pro Australian Jersey, so a Pro Sprint (so not Boyle)... the film is rough.
My first guess was Grant Atkins... but I'm not sure, maybe others know.
:mrgreen:

Edit: Think "Nico" was disrupted in his Cycling, from a broken hip. :?:


Geez I wish I could remember who the other bloke was... Another rough stab is a chap by the name of Greg Barrett who was a professional (and good sprinter) at the time.

Yep sorry was a broken hip. As I said being nearly 35 years ago it's all a bit vague. If you look out in the middle (if you can get past the crappy super 8 film) there's a cameraman there. IIRC they were filming Drew Morphett's Flashing Pedals that evening. That was a great show !!

Sorry folks I'll let it all get back on topic now. :oops:
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby foo on patrol » Sat May 07, 2011 8:10 pm

Those bolt on shoes were used in the 70s by time trialist and sprinters. One of my mates and an Aus champ used them as a Junior rider. :wink:

The arm sling in the amature ranks was banned, when I rode madisons, to many people were throwing themselves on the tarmac. :oops:

The knicks I had, had the pocket in the middle of the rear and we placed a pair of socks into it. You had to be careful not too pop a wheelie when throwing you partner in when changing! :mrgreen:
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby bp2 » Sun May 08, 2011 11:17 am

wheels46 wrote:Geez I wish I could remember who the other bloke was... Another rough stab is a chap by the name of Greg Barrett who was a professional (and good sprinter) at the time.


Not Gordon Johnson was it???
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Sun May 08, 2011 2:04 pm

bp2 wrote:
wheels46 wrote:Geez I wish I could remember who the other bloke was... Another rough stab is a chap by the name of Greg Barrett who was a professional (and good sprinter) at the time.


Not Gordon Johnson was it???


Greg Barrett, does not ring a bell, and I knew most of them. :?:
It was well after Gordon Johnson's time, it was not him.
Will stick with Grant Atkins (the look is right) and he won Pro Nationals Sprint in 1974.
Photo below. (of Pro Nationals Sprint in 1974 at the presentation)
Image

Think the Tube-Video was 1975, with Nico winning over Grant Atkins the reigning Champion,
who's in the Sprint Champs jersey... that's my take. 8)
John Nicholson won Pro Nationals Sprint in 1975 and 1976.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Sun May 08, 2011 2:48 pm

mikesbytes wrote:The only Madison changeover I've done is where you grab the other riders arm and sling him forward


British National Madison 1979.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun May 08, 2011 8:21 pm

brentono wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:The only Madison changeover I've done is where you grab the other riders arm and sling him forward


British National Madison 1979.
:mrgreen:

I'm loving this stuff - I think a new thread is in order for it. It's gold and not to be lost in amongst this lot.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Mon May 09, 2011 11:58 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
brentono wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:The only Madison changeover I've done is where you grab the other riders arm and sling him forward


British National Madison 1979.
:mrgreen:

I'm loving this stuff - I think a new thread is in order for it. It's gold and not to be lost in amongst this lot.


Glad it's of interest. Sould be to BarryTas, as Grant Atkins from Tassie, was a good sprinter,
and still involved with the Tasmanian Carnival organisation. Back in the Seventies the
Carnivals were great, pulling huge crowds, and a great atmosphere. :D

Amazing that there are so few records/photos from the period, as there were too many good riders,
to mention, some amazing stories, and some great racing going on.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby mikesbytes » Mon May 09, 2011 11:17 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I'm loving this stuff - I think a new thread is in order for it. It's gold and not to be lost in amongst this lot.


+1

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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby wheels46 » Tue May 10, 2011 8:37 am

+2 We can also get a Don Allen/Danny Clarke 6 Day Race sub-thread !! :D
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Wed May 11, 2011 11:55 am

That's Don Allan/Danny Clark. :wink:
Raced against Danny in a couple of Pro Nats Sprint heats up to '76.
And in a few of the other Pro Nat Title races.
(while he was still in Australia)
Rode as "Danny" at a Good Friday-Herne Hill meet, and the Easter Monday. :o
Met them both in mid-70's in Ghent just prior to their Ghent 6-Day win.
Was at Danny's house just outside Ghent at the same time when he came out
with the funniest line I had heard from a cyclist, about his "Singing Career" :)
Both guys had a great 6-Day stint, and it was and is,
a very hard, demanding round on the 6-Day circuit.
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Wed May 18, 2011 10:33 am

Back OT
A couple of quotes from a Pez conversation with Danny.
Which reconfirm most of the points I have made, on gears, & on cranks.
Read the whole interview, as Danny had great cadence and terrific speed.
(Danny was not shy when he was young, maybe even keenly confident :wink:
and you may pick up the singing quote, even these days) :)
PEZ: Tell us the technical spec. on the bikes you rode.
Danny: I always rode 52 x 16 on 165 cranks; top tube was 56, seat 54; equipment wise,
I had no preference - I rode what I was given!

That's 87.7 inches :shock:
PEZ: I believe you clocked a 42 mph lap at Gent?
Danny: I don't what the speed was in miles per hour - 60 plus kph, though.
At one time I had the lap record for every track on the winter circuit -
I could have gone faster, but I wouldn't pay for the best, new equipment.
Guys would be on Campag Shamal wheels and I was still on my old wheels.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7999
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby foo on patrol » Wed May 18, 2011 7:45 pm

87.7 was the gear of choice when I rode the Gold Coast 6 days and other madisons of longer than 1hr. :wink:

Raced against Danny Clark when I was 16 (junior) in Toowoomba and he started behind scratch in the main handicap race (1600mtrs) -20mtrs. I rode off 115mtrs at that point in my career :oops: and he beat me in the judges photo finish by half a tyre and won the tv and I got the vertical griller. :mrgreen:

He was an extremely fast finisher and a power house to boot, plus a nice bloke on top of it! 8)
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby brentono » Thu May 19, 2011 11:04 am

Gary,
Yes, Danny was a good pedaller, always on 165mm cranks.
Those figures, for a lap on Ghent Velodrome, put his cadence
at 160+ rpm and that's the Average for the whole lap,
so he must have peaking well up there (over 170) 8)
A good experience, as a younster to ride against these blokes,
and there were plenty around, at the time, as you know. :)
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Re: Cadence....discuss

Postby foo on patrol » Thu May 19, 2011 7:15 pm

True Brenton! :)
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