The Intervals Thread

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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:46 am

fringe_dweller wrote:I think Mike is asking for some example intervals, and what area it is that they target.

Grant


Correct

What are the kinds of things we may want to improve? For example;

- Sprint at the end of a crit
- Power over a hill
- Long hill climb
- Cross winds
etc

What are the specific kinds of intervals that could be used improve on a particular objective
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by BNA » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:53 am

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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby fringe_dweller » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:53 am

Alex is paid to provide that kind of info, so not sure how much detail you'll get!

I can share my experiences with a coach (not Alex) - I need to be clear up front that I don't coach anyone, and what I'm sharing is what has been given to me.

My training doesn't get so specific as to say "this is to develop your sprint for the end of a crit" vs "this is to develop your sprint at the end of an endurance ride". What it does do, is give me workouts that target specific zones, to help me develop in areas that I'm weak. At the moment that's every area :D I've never been a serious racer, but would consider myself a serious recreational rider (next year will be my first year of road racing with Penrith).

The program is a fourteen week block that mixes up the stimulus, so that my body never completely adapts to what I'm throwing at it - if I did hill repeats up Yarramundi for six months I expect that I would see some significant improvements that would then trail off as my body became used to doing the same thing day in, day out.

Weeks 1-4 and 6-9 focus on Threshold/SST training. That is a range of 88-95% FTP in blocks of various times, with different rest periods. It also includes a good four hour ride once a week with some hill repeats that gradually increase in count.

Weeks 11-13 focus on V02 with short intervals of 115-120% FTP, and the same weekly long ride where I have to bust a gut on the hill repeats, basically turning them into VO2 sessions.

What's the goal here? Lift my base power/fitness, and then add a bit of punch for attacks, sprints etc.

From what I understand, power is power - riding into a crosswind doesn't require interval training so much as it requires good body positioning. Similarly, if you can generate good power on the flats then you'll be able to generate it on the climbs - the difference is that power/speed on flats is about power/frontal area, while on hills it's more about power/weight.

The thing I find most difficult is pacing. When I'm on the roadie I have my powermeter to help me know that I'm redlining. On the MTB it's much more about perceived effort, and I tend to underestimate how hard I'm working with the inevitable result of blowing up at exactly the wrong point.

If you want some specifics about the intervals I'm doing, drop me a PM. Just realise that they are to address my goals, and may not necessarily help you with yours!

Hope that's of some kind of assistance,
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:24 am

Thanks Grant,

Understand that there are many factors involved in my question, such as power to weight ratio for climbing. I'm focusing on Intervals in this thread.

As I moonlight as a spin instructor I do a lot of intervals of varying types. I don't have the scope to do a structured training plan, as it will conflict heavily with my spin instruction. However if I understand the effect of different types of intervals, then I can utilise that info to make small refinements within what I do.

I'll PM you my email address

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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby fringe_dweller » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:55 pm

So how does you guys go about keeping track of your intervals? If you have a straightforward 2x20 it's not so bad, but if you're doing 6 intervals of say 5 minutes with microintervals of 30s, then recovery for 5 mins how do you keep the numbers straight? My memory isn't that crash hot :)

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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby pagey » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:39 pm

I use the 'high tech' pen approach and make a mark on paper per interval. It is very hard to keep track when you are doing 30 x ramp ups
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby ft_critical » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:33 pm

fringe_dweller wrote:So how does you guys go about keeping track of your intervals? If you have a straightforward 2x20 it's not so bad, but if you're doing 6 intervals of say 5 minutes with microintervals of 30s, then recovery for 5 mins how do you keep the numbers straight? My memory isn't that crash hot :)

Grant


Garmin. Spreadsheet to strip the intervals and compare.

Sometimes, I wish I didn't compare as I get worse not better.

I use a five minute test each month for relative comparison. Hence I have drawn the conclusion that I have reached 'terminal' ability. The only improvements from here are from losing weight and maintaining power/speed.

My spreadsheet can graph the intervals for any factor (HR, cadence etc.) But to be honest, I find that the summary values are just as useful. The graphs only tell me if I was maintaining constanst speed/cadence or ramping.
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:03 pm

Don't make interval structures too complicated (it's not necessary). When you are going hard, it's easy to lose count.

Some devices have lap buttons to help you keep track of interval duration and number.

Of course at Turbo Studio, all the efforts are pre-programmed, so no need to think much, just execute.
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby fringe_dweller » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:16 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Of course at Turbo Studio, all the efforts are pre-programmed, so no need to think much, just execute.


Yes, I'll definitely be visiting you come winter. The idea of riding at 5.30am in the cold doesn't bear contemplating. But while the weather is mild I want to feel the breeze on my face :)
If I'm working with another coach, am I able to program your bikes according to what I'm doing or is that a little outside of the normal scope of a session?


Anyhow, just got home from good ride based around intervals. The weather is magic in Sydney at the moment.

4:30 (AT) 70% FTP
1:30 (AT) 140% FTP

Repeat until I couldn't hold the 140% any more. I only lasted 8, but I'm sure that number will climb with some focused effort.

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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:45 pm

fringe_dweller wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Of course at Turbo Studio, all the efforts are pre-programmed, so no need to think much, just execute.


Yes, I'll definitely be visiting you come winter. The idea of riding at 5.30am in the cold doesn't bear contemplating. But while the weather is mild I want to feel the breeze on my face :)
If I'm working with another coach, am I able to program your bikes according to what I'm doing or is that a little outside of the normal scope of a session?

The power sessions are pre-set and all designed by me. They would fit in well for any day of a program you would typically reserve for a hard sweet spot / threshold workout.

If you want to do something custom designed, that's fine we can do that, but would need to do those outside of our designated session times and quote for a custom session (bear in mind that when a session is set, that ties up all the units hooked up to that server). Not totally necessary though as the power sessions are excellent for stimulating threshold power development. That's the whole point :)

You can of course also ride any custom course simulation (like we do for race simulations), and ride that as hard or as easy as you like. I can program any course in the world, provided it's "mappable".
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby KD1988 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:56 pm

I am just starting again with the high intensity training. What kind of intervals should I be doing for the 40km ITT of a triathlon? The other day I went out and did 5min E3, 2min rest and I did that 14 times. Obviously W/U and C/D either side. I am in very unchartered territory though and I don't really know what kind or length of intervals will help me. At the moment I am trying to get about 400km a week (with a 100km+weekend ride)
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:29 pm

KD1988 wrote:I am just starting again with the high intensity training. What kind of intervals should I be doing for the 40km ITT of a triathlon? The other day I went out and did 5min E3, 2min rest and I did that 14 times. Obviously W/U and C/D either side. I am in very unchartered territory though and I don't really know what kind or length of intervals will help me. At the moment I am trying to get about 400km a week (with a 100km+weekend ride)

Define what you mean by E3.
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby KD1988 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:26 pm

HR training zone. For me Max HR is roughly 195 and resting roughly 45 (neither tested) from this I have estimated training zones...

E1 - 126-144 (65-74%)
E2 - 146-164 (75-84%)
E3 - 166-177 (85-91%)
E4 - 179-195 (92-100%)

Here is the specific interval session I was talking about...
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/126327577
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:41 pm

KD1988 wrote:HR training zone. For me Max HR is roughly 195 and resting roughly 45 (neither tested) from this I have estimated training zones...

E1 - 126-144 (65-74%)
E2 - 146-164 (75-84%)
E3 - 166-177 (85-91%)
E4 - 179-195 (92-100%)

Here is the specific interval session I was talking about...
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/126327577

1. Do a flat out time trial effort for 25-30 min and see what your HR really is at that level.
2. then reassess whether your HR training levels are appropriate.

Then ditch the 2-min breaks and do them as 20-min contiguous efforts with 4-5 min break between.
HR should gradually creep up as you go.

Can work your way up with 10-min, then 15 min then 20 min as the weeks go on but try to lengthen efforts at that level.

You only do 5-min at that level when starting out to get used to it again, or when going somewhat harder (and HR is not particularly helpful as a guide when going that hard). If you are already doing 14 of them in one session, then you can definitely do them as longer blocks.
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby KD1988 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:59 pm

Not sure if this helps at all...

I did the Calga 43km TT today and my legs were already somewhat fatigued and I found it very difficult to raise my HR. ..

You can see here.. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/126705626

Av HR was only 162 and I struggled really hard with leg strength.

Reason for the fatigue: yesterday 130km ride, day before was those intervals, day before was 83km trying to go as hard as I could (didn't have the HR monitor), day before was 50km easy and day before was 1.5 hour MTB (hard of course) and hard afternoon ride.

Think I'll take a couple of days to give my legs a break and try the 20min TT.
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby KD1988 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:29 am

Did the TT today. Ended up being 19.5km and took 32:40. Averaged 34.0km/h over undulating terrain. So I want this to increase... a lot.

I had a little bit of a cold and I did running intervals yesterday but I think I was still very fresh and I don't think these will have impacted on my results much at all.

I noticed my HR average for each kilometre to be much higher from the 1st km (AT) 153 then every km after that was between 168-170 until 15th km then av HR was 172, 170, 173, 176. Max HR was 166 for 1st km then ranged from 169-173 until 15th km when hax HR was 174, 172, 176, 177. Average HR for the course was 168.9.

Compared to the 43km TT the other day the first 9km of the course (same course) was much faster today, however when comparing the last 9km of the course the 43km TT was slightly faster, I think average 38.8km/h vs 39.2km/h.

I didn't stop the timer after I stopped so the averages in the garmin data are a bit off, that's why I explained it above :) But here it is anyway... http://connect.garmin.com/activity/127450640
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Re: The Intervals Thread

Postby Axel Brawn » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:01 pm

I'm after some opinion and other riders experience in determining FTP for intervals.

I've done a 20min TT (274W) and had similar 20 min power in a few longer rides. I've been basing some interval training using this figure to calculate FTP (274*.95) This morning I did the usual hour of power ride in Melb and rolled a few turns on the way home to get a peak 20min power of 313W which would give me an FTP around 297.

Should I ignore this spike in results or use it to base my intervals going fwd? Has anyone else had such a diff. between 20min TT and then 20min peak in a hard ride or race?

Maybe I just really suck at TTs???

Thanks for any help
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