Base training / loss of power?

[Strawburger]

Hi All,

Recently (the last 2 months) my training has been less intense, focusing on getting some kms in the legs without the peaks and troughs of effort (i measure this by HR and perceived effort). On the weekend just gone, i could not get my legs to give me the power i am usually accustomed to when wanting to. My HR no matter how hard i wanted my legs to go would not go above approx 80% max HR and speed up the hills were poor. It was like the legs didn't wake up the whole ride.

I'm not sure if it was a bad couple of days and was flat, or the terrain & conditions were not suitable, or if i have lost my power. Usually i have no problem getting my heart rate to 95% on a hill, but on the weekend it had become impossible.

Is it time to start varying my training before my hill climbing form completely disappears?

Note: the only thing i have changed in my training thus far is effort, everything else remains very similar.

[toolonglegs]

By doing lots of long endurance paced km's...you get good at doing long endurance paced efforts.
I think you answered your question in your "note".

[Alex Simmons/RST]

How much have you increased training load by?
Might just need some recovery.

[MDL]

Lol well this is the same at me, i have just started some power training and have been doin alot at a set power. My HR doesn't not get over 70% but i can ride easlerly 150+ at this rate.

I am the same, worried that my sprint power is going down so now i'm doin some intervals with some higher power figures.

MDL

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Lol well this is the same at me, i have just started some power training and have been doin alot at a set power. My HR doesn't not get over 70% but i can ride easlerly 150+ at this rate.

I am the same, worried that my sprint power is going down so now i'm doin some intervals with some higher power figures.

MDL

There is no need to become a "zone drone".

At some stage you have to lift the power.

[Strawburger]

By doing lots of long endurance paced km's...you get good at doing long endurance paced efforts.
I think you answered your question in your "note".

That is probably it. In the back of my mind i can hear those words that go along the lines of "you get better at x by doing x". There is no real variation at the moment, basically endurance training at a more even pace, with my commutes being of similar effort (i usually use the commute as interval training using the hills that are about 5mins apart and 2-3mins length).

How much have you increased training load by?
Might just need some recovery.

No increased training load, it has actually reduced with more rest (one day off on the weekend) since the winter season has ended. I was also thinking that my "rest" hasn't been good quality, now that you point that out that could be another cause.

So coming out of this, by the looks of it i need to snap out of the long endurance paced efforts and reintroduce increased efforts with some intervals thrown in. Could a time trial be more benefit at this stage or intervals? I probably should look at my rest period too.

Thanks all for your replies so far.

[MDL]

Lol well this is the same at me, i have just started some power training and have been doin alot at a set power. My HR doesn't not get over 70% but i can ride easlerly 150+ at this rate.

I am the same, worried that my sprint power is going down so now i'm doin some intervals with some higher power figures.

MDL

There is no need to become a "zone drone".

At some stage you have to lift the power.

Alex - Totally agree with you so - want to do some races that fall on my weekends off. Only thing i think i have to do some higher power trainnig otherwise i'm not going to see the benifics of it.

MDL

[steve-waters]

Strawburger - you say you have moved to doing more base focused training. Have you increased the duration at the same time to keep up the training load or are you still riding same durations but at lower intensity?

To keep some zing in the legs is worth doing at least one session with some higher intensity as well - or you are just training to ride slowly at the moment but for a long time.

[Strawburger]

Strawburger - you say you have moved to doing more base focused training. Have you increased the duration at the same time to keep up the training load or are you still riding same durations but at lower intensity?

To keep some zing in the legs is worth doing at least one session with some higher intensity as well - or you are just training to ride slowly at the moment but for a long time.

During the week it is same distances with similar times (slightly slower). On the weekends they are longer rides than usual but only in time it takes not distance (and that's when i get out on the bike).

Yes i am missing that zing. I read somewhere (regarding base training) to avoid increasing the heart rate and power/cadence over a certain limit during base training so i've been following it as best as an amateur does. In doing this i can see loads of improvement in the low ranges however once the heart and power need to raise above that limit described above the power in the legs go missing.

During this period i also ride the fixed gear to work - throwing in some low cadence climbing (seated rather than out of the saddle) to work on strength. I've been recommended to do the low cadence climbing and thought it may be best to do this on the fixie.

The history as to why i decided to base train is that i seem to blow up at around the 60-70km mark in most if not all of the races i did this year. My aim is to get to the finish line in next year's races without blowing up (as much!).

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Yes i am missing that zing. I read somewhere (regarding base training) to avoid increasing the heart rate and power/cadence over a certain limit during base training so i've been following it as best as an amateur does. In doing this i can see loads of improvement in the low ranges however once the heart and power need to raise above that limit described above the power in the legs go missing.

Where did that load of cobblers training advice emanate from?

The only time you keep a lid on training intensity is for a 2-3 weeks after a long lay off, or when returning from injury. That's not to say you go out there and smash every ride either, but honestly, efforts up to threshold (time trial) power IS base training.

During this period i also ride the fixed gear to work - throwing in some low cadence climbing (seated rather than out of the saddle) to work on strength. I've been recommended to do the low cadence climbing and thought it may be best to do this on the fixie.

It'll help you climb at low cadences, but has nothing to do with strength. The forces are way too low to be related to strength.

The history as to why i decided to base train is that i seem to blow up at around the 60-70km mark in most if not all of the races i did this year. My aim is to get to the finish line in next year's races without blowing up (as much!).

Training to increase threshold power has the double benefit of lifting your sustainable aerobic power as well as improving your endurance. IOW you'll go further, faster.

[Strawburger]

Thanks for the clarifications Alex. I see i have been doing this for far too long and too one-dimensionally. Fortunately i have enough time to correct any mistakes i made in my plans for next year's racing.

Now i understand why you use the TT for training purposes. The whole planned process is slowly starting to make sense to me.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Thanks for the clarifications Alex. I see i have been doing this for far too long and too one-dimensionally. Fortunately i have enough time to correct any mistakes i made in my plans for next year's racing.

Now i understand why you use the TT for training purposes. The whole planned process is slowly starting to make sense to me.

Like I said, it's not about going all out the other way either. Just mix in some intensity, and as your training and fitness progresses, the amount of higher intensity work you do goes up as well.

[fringe_dweller]

The history as to why i decided to base train is that i seem to blow up at around the 60-70km mark in most if not all of the races i did this year. My aim is to get to the finish line in next year's races without blowing up (as much!).

Out of curiosity, do you eat when you ride? I know that I used to fade around the two hour mark until I started sorting out my eating while on the bike.

Grant

[ireland57]

I've just been through exactly this same thing in the last three months but am starting to come out the other side now (last week or so).

I've been socially road riding for 18 mths riding 3-4 rides per week with faster riders but with no base to speak of, just social mtn biking.
I went well for a few months then lost speed and had no stamina or endurance to back it up.

I've almost completed 11 wks of training with a coach and in the first 6-8 weeks I lost more speed than I'd lost before the training began.

Well in the last 2-3 weeks I've got most of it back again but now have something more than that as well.

My base training included intervals, hills, hill intervals, long rides, easy rides, a Zone 1 ride, mostly solo but some group stuff as well.

The loss of speed was a bit worrying for a while. I mentioned it to Coach and he said it was likely for a bit.

In the last two weeks though many have commented about how much better I'm riding so It's not only me noticing. My speed is getting
decent and I haven't even seriously touched sprint work for a few weeks other than a couple of group rides.
I can't wait for the next part.

[Strawburger]

Like I said, it's not about going all out the other way either. Just mix in some intensity, and as your training and fitness progresses, the amount of higher intensity work you do goes up as well.

Thanks again Alex!

Out of curiosity, do you eat when you ride? I know that I used to fade around the two hour mark until I started sorting out my eating while on the bike.
Grant

Hi Grant - Yes i eat. I've been doing a lot of research on it recently (after the season had finished). It looks like i have been eating just on the right amount but i probably should swap the type. I will be experimenting with different types through the summer ready to go for next year but i don't see this as my problem. My problem is that i am burning way too much through the race - my heart rate usually sits at around 90-95% for most of the race thus i blow up about 2 hrs in.

I've almost completed 11 wks of training with a coach and in the first 6-8 weeks I lost more speed than I'd lost before the training began.

I think this is where i am at currently. With all the stuff Alex has mentioned i should hopefully be coming out the other side pretty soon!