Anyone can become an A grade rider?

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Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:07 am

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow club rider on the weekend, he was of the opinion that anyone can become an A grade club level rider with the right intensity and volume of training. I disputed this saying to become this good you need a certain amount of natural talent (body physiology). What are your thoughts?
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by BNA » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:34 am

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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby liamb » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:34 am

assuming you were an "average" adult say between 20 and 40 with no major health issues that would hinder the hard training and riding that would be required to develop your body you could do it. It would require lots of time (possibly full time) and lots of effort but it could be done. I have not medical or training background but have watched a mate go from no exercise to completing a full iron man in 15th position in 18 months. Personally I think he could have gone top ten but he went out too hard in the swim. It started as part time training but in the last 6 months he stopped work and went full time. He is 34 years old and had nothing to stop him medically or financially.

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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby steve-waters » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:00 pm

I am with liamb.

Given the right amount of time and training I would say most people could crack it in A-Grade - where the natural talent would be needed would be once you get to national level or even international level.

Not taking anything away from A-grade club riders they would blow me out the back :)
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby PawPaw » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:34 pm

Define what you mean by being an A grade rider.
I agree a lot of people could draft in a pack doing 38-48kph for 50 minutes, but not 'anyone'.
Less people could get back on the pack once dropped.
Fewer could break.
Less could place.
And fewer could win, even once in 10 years of A grade riding.

Research average and std dev. of VO2max for a population.
Just as every 17yo could not swim 50 freestyle in under 30 seconds, or run 100 metres in <12 seconds, so too 'anyone' cannot be an A grade level cyclist.
You tend to be more aware of these things when you've had legitimate experience. Pose the question to a school PE teacher if you know one.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby twizzle » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:48 pm

My answer is 'No'. VO2Max and muscle composition is genetically determined. If you haven't got the right genetics to start with, there is nothing you can do about it.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:08 pm

¨Anyone can become an A grade rider¨ ... you just sign up at a race and roll in A. With training you may be able to stick with the bunch depending on the course type and your power to weight. But some people could train for 5 years solid and still never win in an A grade club race... then you need to step up to A grade open... etc etc.
Genetics come in to play obviously... but so does dedication, you might not be able to beat a born sprinter in pure power to weight ever with any amount of training if you don't have the right body composition as well... but the longer the efforts the more that changes. Obviously if someone with the right genetics and the same amount of dedication comes along then you haven't got a hope :lol: .
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby vander » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:36 pm

Yea you can, for sure, if I can make it to A grade level in less than 12months of sporadic training anyone can. The human body is a wonderful thing if you treat it right it will adapt properly, I believe that most people with a lot of hard work could get to national level. I am not talking a short time period for this but I think it is doable. I am also not just talking about training I am talking about diet and sleep as well which are just as important. International level is I think where you start needing talent.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:40 pm

Ross wrote:I had an interesting conversation with a fellow club rider on the weekend, he was of the opinion that anyone can become an A grade club level rider with the right intensity and volume of training. I disputed this saying to become this good you need a certain amount of natural talent (body physiology). What are your thoughts?
I agree with you. Sounds like this person has fairly good genetics for it and therefore he can't understand why anyone else can't do it too. I know at least one guy that couldn't, no matter how much training and dedication. I think he weighs about 130Kg at the moment and he's 5'11". He was always the back marker in our MTB club.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:42 pm

Sorry Vander, but you obviously have the "goods" buried in there somewhere... Your power to weight in a sprint for example would be pretty damn good if you ripped down 8 to 10 kgs... Some people ( including me! ) will never get close to those figures in power to weight.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby vander » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:52 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Sorry Vander, but you obviously have the "goods" buried in there somewhere... Your power to weight in a sprint for example would be pretty damn good if you ripped down 8 to 10 kgs... Some people ( including me! ) will never get close to those figures in power to weight.


Yea I do need to drop a few kg but food is so tasty :), hoping to get really serious again now. Still I think anyone can do it the main thing about being an A grader is being smart and having a decent FTP. An example of an A grade race is a 280W average that is not all that unachievable for the average person I dont think, most people dont know how to train properly or how to really hurt themselves. Getting placings is often more of a tactical thing then strength.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:58 pm

Nobody wrote:
Ross wrote:I had an interesting conversation with a fellow club rider on the weekend, he was of the opinion that anyone can become an A grade club level rider with the right intensity and volume of training. I disputed this saying to become this good you need a certain amount of natural talent (body physiology). What are your thoughts?
I agree with you. Sounds like this person has fairly good genetics for it and therefore he can't understand why anyone else can't do it too. I know at least one guy that couldn't, no matter how much training and dedication. I think he weighs about 130Kg at the moment and he's 5'11". He was always the back marker in our MTB club.

with training and dedication he could lose 50kgs and gain some power... Overweight people can make the biggest gains... But competitive in A Grade....probably not though.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:03 pm

vander wrote: Getting placings is often more of a tactical thing then strength.

that's only because most races you are doing are pretty flat... Things soon change when the bumps get bigger :-) .
Been sharing a room with Colin Lewis for a few weeks... 70 years old next week and still very much genetically gifted ... Look up his riding history and you will know what I mean!!!.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby vander » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:09 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
vander wrote: Getting placings is often more of a tactical thing then strength.

that's only because most races you are doing are pretty flat... Things soon change when the bumps get bigger :-) .
Been sharing a room with Colin Lewis for a few weeks... 70 years old next week and still very much genetically gifted ... Look up his riding history and you will know what I mean!!!.


He just said competitive in A grade didnt specify the course, you have to play to your advantages :D
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:17 pm

He didn't even say competitive... He just said A grade club level ... Suppose it depends on the club ;-) .
I will be back in A next year ... New plan has been formed and hopefully I can stick to it!. My wife is already saying I am getting too skinny... Wait till I drop another 5 kgs dear :-) .
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:17 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
Nobody wrote:
Ross wrote:I had an interesting conversation with a fellow club rider on the weekend, he was of the opinion that anyone can become an A grade club level rider with the right intensity and volume of training. I disputed this saying to become this good you need a certain amount of natural talent (body physiology). What are your thoughts?
I agree with you. Sounds like this person has fairly good genetics for it and therefore he can't understand why anyone else can't do it too. I know at least one guy that couldn't, no matter how much training and dedication. I think he weighs about 130Kg at the moment and he's 5'11". He was always the back marker in our MTB club.

with training and dedication he could lose 50kgs and gain some power... Overweight people can make the biggest gains... But competitive in A Grade....probably not though.


The guy that made these comments is quite an experienced racer but is only in a low grade at the moment due to coming back from injury but when he was at his peak I think he was only ever B grade. This guy could do with losing some weight too.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Le Velo » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:14 pm

All it takes to become an A grade club racer is $15 at the local club crit 8)
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby sogood » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:54 pm

"Anyone" is a dangerous word. Otherwise I agree with the premise that apart from those excluded, "anyone" can become an A grade rider. The key question is how much time one has and how smart one trains. With reduced time and/or less intelligent training, greater percentage of riders fall into the Not-"Anyone" group. :mrgreen:
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby PawPaw » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:00 pm

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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby sogood » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 pm

PawPaw wrote:Meanwhile, back on planet earth, the science says:
http://jap.physiology.org/content/110/3/846.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21923202

The problem here is, "A Grade" is so far a poorly defined term within this thread.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:11 pm

sogood wrote:The problem here is, "A Grade" is so far a poorly defined term within this thread.
This may help if you consider "Cat. 1" as "A Grade".
http://www.americanroadcycling.org/arti ... sSpeed.htm
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:53 pm

.
Last edited by Nobody on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:55 pm

I think people can do what they want with their lives...I didn't realize what grade you race in had any influence on whether you are wonderful or a w*****r.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Nobody » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:18 am

toolonglegs wrote:I think people can do what they want with their lives...I didn't realize what grade you race in had any influence on whether you are wonderful or a w*****r.
Never said they couldn't.
Didn't call anyone any names or even imply it.
It had no specific bearing on anything anyone had posted previously.
It was deleted as it was obviously too contentious. You probably won't be the only one to read into it more than how I intended it to be taken.
As usual, sorry for any offense caused.
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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:17 am

To the op Its say no. There are plenty of people I know who would not become A grade. At the end of the day it means nothing.People In the lower grades work just as hard they just go slower, I'd argue that the lower grades have more fun for the most part.

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Re: Anyone can become an A grade rider?

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:04 am

Nupe!

I've seen blokes that did plenty of training and still couldn't ride out of sight in a blizzard and this was club level. Some people just don't have the right physical make up. Still does not stop them from enjoying themselves. :wink:
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