How to train for 20km TT

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:08 am

Good luck with it. Just take care with such large changes in bike position - allow yourself some easy riding on it for a while before going hard. It takes a while forthe body to adapt to the changes. the bigger the change, the more time to adapt.
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by BNA » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:51 pm

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:51 pm

Ist serious effort with new bike fit after a couple of soft rides to get the feel of it. Broke 50kph on a homeward downhill stretch for first time this ride and generally note that I have good speed on downhill sections. Slightly improved aerodynamics?
I felt a bit weak today and it was a gusty day, but surprisingly I put in my second best time with my lowest ave HR ever on this ride.
31m34s, 34.29kph, ave HR 167, Max HR 183 ( prev PB is 30.57 which was a time of 31.27 retrospectively adjusted by club for the course being incorrectly laid out too long that day)
My arms/shoulders felt quite sore in the new TT position and I resorted to the drop bars several times espec on uphill sections.
This would also have cost significant time so well in hunt for PB by xmas as my body adjusts. I was actually on PB time
At the 13km mark and then lost 40 seconds from there. Why? Perhaps I went too hard on the long dh stretch?
Perhaps the gusty winds were not conducive to good speed the final 5km? Perhaps I was just not strong enough on the day.
I note that Today I had a very slow start due to wind and legs..but that I was quickly up to a good av speed once the wind allowed and the legs
warmed up. In comparison to 2/11 this was some 40 seconds faster to the turn point (11k). The lesson here is (again) to not go out to hard!
For PB I need to turn at 20 min (today 20.20s) or better ( 33kph) and come home at better than 41. This is doable.
Radically different hear rate zone maps the last 2 rides!
2-11 http://screencast.com/t/h6PafX7ARwQ
18-11 http://screencast.com/t/d8sTPqSctUj
(Yes my sigma computer only has provision for 3 zones)
Looks like that maybe I overloaded on sugar and caffiene last ride, and ate poorly in lead up.
Re low avg HR - last night - spag bol, today breakfast, bol sauce on toast, today lunch chicken burger and plenty of water this pm.
Just recording this for reference.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:25 am

Well done Linds, where are you doing these ITT's? Have you loaded it onto Strava?
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:13 pm

Thks Mike
No Strava..my computer doesn't have GPS
Its the local club TT course here at Wodonga in NE Vic
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:06 pm

linds wrote:Thks Mike
No Strava..my computer doesn't have GPS
Its the local club TT course here at Wodonga in NE Vic

Just use your smart phone, if you have one. Download the app and your ready to rock.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:15 pm

soon as I upgrade from my clunky old iphone 3!
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby misterios » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:06 pm

Like the original poster, I am just getting back into this so it was really helpful reading all the input. Clearly there are different views but I found myself more convinced on the suggestions on variety so I'm gonna start being disciplined and follow that. Oh and thanks, helps to hear from "ordinary people" rather than anyone trying to sell u something
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:27 pm

Hi Linds, is there a profile somewhere or Strava for one of the other riders?
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:54 pm

linds wrote:Its the local club TT course here at Wodonga in NE Vic


Is this Plunketts road? From memory this was closer to 18km?
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:45 pm

yes its about 18km
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:52 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Hi Linds, is there a profile somewhere or Strava for one of the other riders?


from club website

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1237404
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:31 am

That's a nice undulating out and back circuit.

I have raced it once back in March 2012, as there was a TT in Wangaratta on the Saturday and the Albury Wodonga TT was on the Sunday; making a weekend of it and raced both... Though they had us start at the finish line which shortened the course to 14km TT that morning - I ended with a 19:38 - 44km/hr ave.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:22 am

Image

Looks hilly

While the general advice is to produce even power through out the TT, how you manage the hills will affect your time greatly. Under those circumstances some riders take a different tactic such as putting more effort on the hills to power over them.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:46 pm

yes I am playing with the idea that burning a match or 2 up the hills might give an overall better benefit than a steady effort. The thinking is that the speed increase achieved with effort up hill may be better that down hill as wind resistance is less ( due to lower speed). Then balancing that with not overdoing it before the line is the craft.?
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:56 pm

Training ride today - neutral wind conditions. Overcast and about 30 degrees.

Have done a couple of soft rides and a few spin classes since the last TT effort.

Time 30m45s
Ave speed 35.26
Ave/peak HR 172/191

This is a PB by 42 seconds and 0.7kmh!

Technically this ride was an improvement over the last one. I was on TT bars for 95% of ride as my body is adapting to new bike fit. I warmed up properly and I did NOT start too hard. Interestingly I did not make any dietary effort to prepare for this ride - no extra sugar or caffiene.

Turned at ave speed 33.4 and came home at 38.8.

Very happy with this result. I think with further technical improvements and ongoing fitness improvements my goal of ave speed 36kph may not be too far away. That is great because my reward for that will be the addition of a new TT bike to the fleet.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Image

Looks hilly

While the general advice is to produce even power through out the TT, how you manage the hills will affect your time greatly. Under those circumstances some riders take a different tactic such as putting more effort on the hills to power over them.

Isopower is a reasonably good but not optimal pacing strategy. There are time gains to be had with variable power ouput over variable terrain. The problem is that perceived effort doesn't match power output on variable terrain. Even power output on variable terrain feels easy on the inclines and hurts on the declines.

For good pacing I would suggest perceived effort on climbs and flats and moderate downhill gradients should be about the same, with the main caveats being:
- the opening minutes should feel easy, and
- the perception of effort should gradually increase through the entire TT.
Obviously as downhills become steeper you pedal until you run out of gears, then you tuck 'n' coast.

When riding in this manner the actual power output will still be a higher on the ascents and lower on the descents but not so much so that it compromises your pacing strategy, and power will be maintained through the course (rather than starting too hard and fading which you need to avoid).
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:43 pm

That's really interesting. On the last 2 climbs (ie on this course homeward bound) in particular I have been really pushing at v high perceived effort ( ie rip face off) in attempt to not let speed bleed off too much and then to get quickly to above my target average before reducing effort. No doubt if I had a power meter I would be seeing high on the uphill and a clear drop once up to speed and over. If I am looking at just the last few km, is this anywhere near an optimal strategy? From what you say, it is not, and I would be better off working on equalising my uphill/downhill effort.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:31 am

linds wrote:That's really interesting. On the last 2 climbs (ie on this course homeward bound) in particular I have been really pushing at v high perceived effort ( ie rip face off) in attempt to not let speed bleed off too much and then to get quickly to above my target average before reducing effort. No doubt if I had a power meter I would be seeing high on the uphill and a clear drop once up to speed and over. If I am looking at just the last few km, is this anywhere near an optimal strategy? From what you say, it is not, and I would be better off working on equalising my uphill/downhill effort.


Well the problem is the ratio between perception of effort and actual effort is not a constant, and the level of variability in power one is capable of is also unique to an individual.

Whether or not such an effort on the final section of a TT makes sense depends on how much time you lost by not going a little harder for all the previous kilometres, which had you done so will likely mean you no longer have the capacity to substantially lift power in the finale.

It is possible to quantify these things with power meter data but it is a complex problem to solve.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:42 pm

Thanks for your input here Alex I appreciate it.

This is a plot of my last ride - my PB http://screencast.com/t/aYHaZ2MSEiCo

Looking at the HR line in relation to the elevation and speed, is anything jumping out at you by way of poor technique/application of effort ?


thanks

Lindsay
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:03 am

My last few rides:
(Standing PB 30.45 to end 2013, ultimate target 30.00)
24-2-14 first TT for year. Moderate effort. Av sp 33.5, 32m06s AV HR 170
17-3-14 serious PB effort. 34.38, 31.25, 170
7-4-14 serious PB effort. 34.87, 30.57, 170
14-4-14 serious PB effort. 35.90, 30.04, 170 (!! that was close)...PB! Missed target time by 4 seconds ( really ideal conditions)
19-4-14 club ride. 34.43, 31.21, 172 (really poor conditons - strong HW on long leg, so quite a good time considering that)

I have the fitness and form to reach my 30 min mark in the short term.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:42 pm

As I am close to achieving my time goal I have started to look around at TT bikes.

As a novice TT rider is it at all relevant/important that a bike is UCI legal?
I will just be riding local/regional club TT's in the short/medium term.
How do I know if a bike I am looking at is UCI legal?

thanks
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:33 pm

If your going to get a TT bike and your going to race club and regional stuff you will need a UCI approved bike. They are easy to pick now as all UCI approved bikes have a sticker stating as much on the seat tube.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:43 pm

linds wrote:As I am close to achieving my time goal I have started to look around at TT bikes.
thanks

Can I suggest you hold off on that?
*From the look of your times you are by no means a time trial specialist
*A TT bike wont make much difference when you are only averaging 35kph
*There are lots of other ways to get faster than just buying a bike.

I would suggest that when you can do the 18k in 26 minutes that you will need a TT bike.

So my son wants to be a racing car driver, gets his Ls a few months ago, and I go out and buy him a Ferrari. Is that the best way to help him?
Or should he learn to drive a GoCart, once he is skilled up there then go to a Formula Vee, and then .... you get my drift?
Lots of stuff to learn in bike riding and it all takes time. There are no short cuts.
So you buy a TT bike and go from 35kph to 36kph for your 18km. Would that make you feel satisfied? I wouldn't be.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:54 am

Thks Derny
My goal post if I bought a TT bike would be 40kmh. Currently best is 35.99.
As I'm 50 I don't think I will wait until I get to 26 minutes on my roadie....bit out of reach I think.
Its a bit of fun and something to do while I can- a bit of a different scenario to your son.
But before I get a bike I might try a tear drop hat and maybe some aero wheels...then see where I am at the end of the year.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:52 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:If your going to get a TT bike and your going to race club and regional stuff you will need a UCI approved bike. They are easy to pick now as all UCI approved bikes have a sticker stating as much on the seat tube.


Only on some new bikes...

Going UCI legal is important regardless what level you race. Always possible commissaires will check you are complying even at these events... Plus if you won't updating your TT rig every year, you can then race Masters States or Nationals in the future if the mood takes you...
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