How to train for 20km TT

Parker
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Parker » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:19 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
linds wrote:As I am close to achieving my time goal I have started to look around at TT bikes.
thanks

Can I suggest you hold off on that?
*From the look of your times you are by no means a time trial specialist
*A TT bike wont make much difference when you are only averaging 35kph
*There are lots of other ways to get faster than just buying a bike.

I would suggest that when you can do the 18k in 26 minutes that you will need a TT bike.

So my son wants to be a racing car driver, gets his Ls a few months ago, and I go out and buy him a Ferrari. Is that the best way to help him?
Or should he learn to drive a GoCart, once he is skilled up there then go to a Formula Vee, and then .... you get my drift?
Lots of stuff to learn in bike riding and it all takes time. There are no short cuts.
So you buy a TT bike and go from 35kph to 36kph for your 18km. Would that make you feel satisfied? I wouldn't be.


A TT bike can make a huge difference, so can a TT helmet and different wheels, booties, skin suit, shaved legs etc...

You buy what you can afford because you can have it, sometimes it gives people the motivation to try harder or maybe they just appreciate it and love it.

I'd say anyone who works that hard on their TT should have a TT bike.

Have fun, I passed a heap of 50 year old blokes at busso with smashingly awesome TT Bike's and they were having a grand time.

Parker
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Parker » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:20 pm

oh and plenty of 50 year old passed me

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KGB
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby KGB » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:38 pm

I have a TT bike, I did my 18km club TT in under 26min.

Is it a good bike? Hell no! It's a 3.0 series cannondale that I got for free and built up with mostly bits and pieces I had in the shed.
There are two reasons I have a TT bike:
1. I can set it up with a proper TT position, rather than a modified road position.
2. Even though I ride 3 tt's a year at most, I can leave it set up and don't have to fiddle with bars, seat position etc constantly when I want to race or even train for a TT. Training in your TT position is vital.

I'd say yes, get a TT bike but look up some data and spend your money wisely. You don't have to spend a great deal to get the vast majority of the aero benefits.
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dalai47
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:58 pm

Agreed buying a bike you can get a good position on is vital! I am still racing on an alloy P3 and have won races including State Masters titles on it... 8)

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:36 pm

Enjoyed reading this flurry of posts thanks.
It is all about fun for me, but fun that allows me to act out my competitive nature.
Breaking 30 min will be a big deal for me.
Once I do that I will aim for 29.
I am hoping I can continue to do PB's for a few years or so yet ( as I only started riding last year)
Not in a hurry to get a bike and likely to go second hand if a good one is available - quite like the Cervelo P2 and P3 a few years old would be ok.
Also like the look of the BH bikes but understand that it should be the fit that determines the bike, not the appearance.
But I will get some good aero wheels and hat before I go down that road.

How old are you dalai47?

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Derny Driver
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:53 pm

linds wrote:
How old are you dalai47?

He is ....just on the wrong side of 40 :D

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:55 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
linds wrote:
How old are you dalai47?

He is ....just on the wrong side of 40 :D


I actually move up to MMAS4 next year DD! :shock:

Older P2's and P3s are still a relatively aero frameset. P3 has a very short headtube compared to the P2, so you may want to try both before you buy as they will fit differently.

Aero wheels - depending on what bike you get and groupset will be a factor in what wheels you buy. I.e. used 10 speed Shimano aero wheels are cheaper now since 11 Speed but means the TT bike can't be 11 speed unless the hub can be adapted / modified...

.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:51 pm

You don't need 11 speeds anyway.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:01 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:You don't need 11 speeds anyway.


Definitely not. I am quite happy with 10 speed, just mentioned this as linds was suggesting he may buy the wheels first...

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:53 pm

Time to buy a motorbike dailai (for your next birthday)

Some valid points in the 'buy a TT bike' discussion.

Performance Yes its only going to give a small improvement, this has also being my experience. I've seen data that Alex Simmons posted that shows that a slower rider gets a fraction more improvement from better equipment than the same upgrade for a faster

Convenience 100% agree on that, no more reconfiguring my road bike and putting it back. Easier to have another bike that's already setup

Budget Performance There a bang for buck sheet somewhere, someone can correct me but it goes something like;
1. clip-ons
2. over boots
3. skin suit
4. helmet
5. rear wheel
6. front wheel
7. TT bike
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:27 pm

Had a motorbike for a number of years now... :wink: Mid life crisis buy was a BT Stealth recently added to the stable replacing my written off track bike from my crash before Easter. 8)

Bang for buck image was on cyclingtips - but not going near there given the following viewtopic.php?f=12&t=77050

Problem with using a road bike is the head tube is often too tall to get low enough... TT bars and position improvements are key. Seen across a number of texts the rider accounts from 70-80% of the total rider/ bike drag!

Skin suit makes a noticeable difference over baggy kit, shoe covers from memory around 0.75 sec per km. Aero front wheel ~11/2 min over 40km, disc another 30 seconds.

Interesting article comparing road to TT bike. http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gear/a ... ero-19273/

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:03 am

mmm... might leave cycling tips link for a little

When I was TT'ing on my road bike I was changing the stem. I rode the last year of the tour of Canberra in the M4+ race (I'm M5) which consisted of a road race in the morning, an ITT in the afternoon and another road race the following morning. Spent a lot of time configuring my bike. Having a separate TT bike is a lot more convenient

I've got good flexibility and core strength so I have no difficulty in getting into a good position on my road or TT bike, though I've never been fitted out, so there's probably some improvements I could make.

My track bike is a different situation, I have long humerus and the head is very tall. for track TT'ing I'm using a pista stem and I've manipulated the pads to get them lower but the position is still not low enough. I feel that I am not getting an advantage over my drop bars which are set on the UCI lower limit, due to my monkey arms. I need either a new frame or a hinged stem.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:22 pm

Dalai, Mike thks for the bikeradar link and other tips. Interesting.
I currently use the clipons, socks and road helmet.
Next is aero hat, suit then wheels.
The power required to maintain 40kph is much lower with good kit (bikeradar article) than what I currently have so I am keen to move in that direction-
as well as build my strength/endurance of course.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:32 am

In regards to skin suits - I use Uno skin suits - single colour top and black shorts. Were good value already at RRP $99, but are currently selling for $20 each! http://www.abcoutlets.com.au/shop/tornado?category_id=6

At that price I recently bought another 5 sets as it then came free shipping. 8) Fit wise I wear Large shorts and Large in these - so no going up or down sizes required... These I expect will be a little slower than the top of the range speed skin suits, but are still a big improvement over standard jersey and shorts.

Note in regards to shoe covers, not all are faster...

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:25 am

Thanks Dalai that is a great price. I just ordered an M and an L. As I am long and thin neither may fit but worth a try at that price.
Re shoe covers - what to look for?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:09 pm

Look for rubberised shoe covers like the Pearl Izumi Barrier Lite rather than just Lycra covers. Newer version of the P.I. Barrier Lites are slip on rather than zipped back, so unfortunately can get a little loose around the ankle. I bought up multiple pairs of the zipped version when they changed the design. 8)

These are the new version

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KGB
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby KGB » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:18 pm

Wow! That's is a steal for skinsuits. I feel the urge to buy one even though I already own 4 club skinsuits. I also prefer to wear my club gear whenever possible so I'll pass.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:30 am

OK thks
Would these be ok with the ratchet strap type shoes? Perhaps too many sharp edges.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:17 pm

I use overshoes similar to the ones in the photo. I have ratchet shoes (Sidi Ergo 2's) and have no problems
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:22 pm

thanks Mike

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:33 pm

Back into it for the season.
My last few times:
6-9 31m12s 34.6kph
7-9 30.11 35.81
14-9 32.25 33.3 poor conditions
22-9 29.58 36.02 Goal time finally achieved!!

This time last year I was doing between 31.30 to 32.30 ish. Perhaps this time next year I will be doing 28's.

Note that I have done these september rides with my old roadie but some new kit - a disk wheel, a tear drop hat and a TT suit. I dont know how much difference this has made but to get a pb at this stage of the season suggests that it is making a measurable difference.

Next time target is 29 minutes. This is an ave speed of 37.24.

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rheicel
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby rheicel » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:37 pm

linds wrote:Back into it for the season.
My last few times:
6-9 31m12s 34.6kph
7-9 30.11 35.81
14-9 32.25 33.3 poor conditions
22-9 29.58 36.02 Goal time finally achieved!!

This time last year I was doing between 31.30 to 32.30 ish. Perhaps this time next year I will be doing 28's.

Note that I have done these september rides with my old roadie but some new kit - a disk wheel, a tear drop hat and a TT suit. I dont know how much difference this has made but to get a pb at this stage of the season suggests that it is making a measurable difference.

Next time target is 29 minutes. This is an ave speed of 37.24.

Well done Mate. I am contemplating myself in doing some ITT. Can't seem to find the right timing though.
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:55 pm

I have bought myself a specialized TT2 helmet second hand.
Can someone tell me how to adjust the 'retention adjustment' position? This is a vertical strap position adjustment adjacent to the ears.
I have googled widely with no luck - I didnt get a manual with it.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:53 pm

30-11: 30m10s ave 35.8
Today 7-12-14 Took 21 seconds of PB.
29m37sec ave speed 36.46
First hard effort with new front wheel (80mm deep rim) and slightly lowered handlebar.
The TT helmet was sitting properly on my back for this run following adjustment.
Left shoe came out of pedal cost a bit of time as did some strong winds that caused me to ease off a couple of times.
Happy with this as I have had several times between 29.58 and 30.30 over the last 8 months.

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Derny Driver
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:17 pm

linds wrote:30-11: 30m10s ave 35.8
Today 7-12-14 Took 21 seconds of PB.
29m37sec ave speed 36.46
First hard effort with new front wheel (80mm deep rim) and slightly lowered handlebar.
The TT helmet was sitting properly on my back for this run following adjustment.
Left shoe came out of pedal cost a bit of time as did some strong winds that caused me to ease off a couple of times.
Happy with this as I have had several times between 29.58 and 30.30 over the last 8 months.

That's good linds but remember your improved times are now due to 80mm front wheel, better aerodynamics and a sperm helmet. So you haven't actually improved at all.
So keep focusing on the non-equipment improvements in pacing, training etc.

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