How to train for 20km TT

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:25 pm

GJM wrote:Brilliant info and, it goes without saying, achievements. Thanks for sharing, and congratulations.

Just a question on your FTP - do you test it via a 20 min test, or do you do it over a full hour?
And do you run the test on the trainer, or outdoors?

TIA.


I have been working with a coach: http://drpcoaching.blogspot.com.au/ since about October 2015. I can recommend this service if you, like me, are time strapped and want to do all your coaching by email. I am no longer a client but I have learned a lot from the experience.
Mt ftp figures have been arrived at by his assessment of all my ride/race data ( via Garmin file with power) including a couple of 20 minute protocol rides on the trainer.
The figures he arrived at have been pretty much confirmed by the Trainingpeaks numbers also.

g-boaf
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:40 pm

I'm guessing that you go pretty much flat out on those hill repeats, or close to it.

Great write up - you've made some great gains. :)

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:37 pm

linds wrote:I didnt quite reach my goal time/speed during the local TT races so now I will work towards it solo.
I went through my 'speed history' - this was an interesting exercise.
Started with my cheap Verite roadie around April 2013

Date TT speed
April 2013 33
May 34.4 (added clip on TT bars)
Dec 35.2
Mar 2014 34.4
April 35.9
Sept 36.0
Nov 36.4 ( added aero hat and wheels)
Dec 36.5 ( Added TT bike)
Jan 2015 37
May 38.4
Injury/10 weeks no riding, no training.
Sept 34.2 (!) Start power meter training ftp 220
Nov 36.9
Dec 37.7 ftp 240
Feb 2016 38.0
Feb 2016 39.1 ftp 250
March 39.3 ( did this speed twice in differing conditions)

And that is where I am up to. The body is standing up to this quite well but the heat the last couple of months really has not helped my cause. I expect to see a performance improvement over the next month or 2 as the weather moderates.

I am having this week off and will resume training with a goal to increase ftp to 260 and to be able to avg 40 on local TT courses over 16km.
I am putting on a better set of aero bars ( 3T Aura) tomorrow so this will slightly change my position and require some adaptation time.
Then I will retest ftp and go from there.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Really liking the feel of the 3T aero bars. Much more comfortable than the standard Giant configuration.
I initially set it up with the elbow pads 20mm higher (from the ground) than I had previously as that was as low as I could get it with the original stem.
Elbow pads are softer and a bit wider apart. It has ski bar extensions rather than 'S' type. I can adjust the width but will leave it for now.
I bought a riser kit for it but it must be for a newer bar than mine so doesn't fit - for sale if anyone is interested ( I paid about $60) - it also fits Brezza bars apparently.
I did some workouts on the trainer over a few days and then took it for a TT on 20 March.

Did PB ( by 5 seconds) of 24.15 for 39.6kph.

Then I put a new stem on so that I could replicate the elbow pad height I had before. But I set it at 10mm above that as really liking the comfort.

Today I did another PB of....24.01....for 39.98kph ( Garmin actually rounded it to 40...but it is not 40).

My ave power for these efforts respectively was 270 and 267....270 was a PB by 8.
I think the cooler weather is helping but pleased with these rides.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby thearthurdog » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:10 pm

Great effort !!
Cannondale Supersix Evo
Fuji Norcom Straight
Fuji Track Elite
http://drpcoaching.blogspot.com.au

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:28 pm

Thanks Dean.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sun May 08, 2016 4:44 pm

Recently a combination of family stressors and a garmin malfunction resulted in less time and motivation for training. So i have ended up doing only 2 to 3 hours of sweetspot per week the last few weeks. Yesterday, as the weather was great and after getting the garmin 510 back, I went for a TT effort.
I was pleased to find that my 25 minute power has not suffered. NP for the 16km effort was 273-up around my best.
Time was off due to poor pacing and being unshaven legwise, so 30 sec off pb.
I conclude that when not in a building phase ie training for an event 8 plus seeks out, that I can use 2 to 3 hours SS weekly to keep me in a holding pattern..I would ge interested to hear others views of this.
I am going to go into a build phase for the Vic masters TT in august soon.

On another point I weighed hoth my bikes yesterday.

TT 9.5kg with Zipp 404 front and Edge Design full disk rear

Verite carbon roady. 7.9 kg with Pro lite Bracciano wheel-set

I knew the TT was heavier but a little surprised by the amount.

I have weighed my disk at 1.83 kg with cassette and tyre and deduced that naked it is close to 1.30kg.
That is heavy compared to newer generation zipp disks but similar to cheaper ones like Fastfwd.
I am not about to spend $1500 odd dollars for a 300g lighter disk at this stage....
I console myself that aero beats light weight on all but the hilliest course...which are really not found on TT courses that i am likely to ride.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Mon May 09, 2016 11:20 pm

I haven't weighed my TT bike or my road bike, but my track bike has been weighed several times and weighed inbetween 8 and 8.2kg, depending on handlebars and wheels. I know my TT bike is heavier and my road bike is lighter. I suspect my TT bike is about the same as yours and my road bike a couple of hundred grams lighter than yours.

How much difference this all makes in the scheme of things, I don't know but I doubt its going to make the difference between where I am and where I should be :)
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby ft_critical » Fri May 13, 2016 9:50 pm

Great work linds. Really interesting to see your improvements. I am new to TT and looking for gains myself so your efforts are inspirational.

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UCI compliance

Postby linds » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:54 pm

Can someone clarify for me if my current bike set up is UCI legal please-I am 191cm tall

Front of saddle is 2cm behind vertical plane of BB

Ends of gear levers are 85cm in front of plane of BB

Legal or not?

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Derny Driver
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Re: UCI compliance

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:31 pm

linds wrote:Front of saddle is 2cm behind vertical plane of BB

Must be 5 cm behind.
Buy a seat with a short nose (Adamo etc).
Last edited by Derny Driver on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Derny Driver
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Re: UCI compliance

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:33 pm

linds wrote:Ends of gear levers are 85cm in front of plane of BB

Thats okay. have a look at this video
http://www.uci.ch/videos/uci-time-trial ... ent-rules/

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Re: UCI compliance

Postby vander » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:48 pm

linds wrote:Can someone clarify for me if my current bike set up is UCI legal please-I am 191cm tall

Front of saddle is 2cm behind vertical plane of BB

Ends of gear levers are 85cm in front of plane of BB

Legal or not?


I believe its one of Saddle >5cm behind BB OR gear leavers 80cm infront of BB (85 for riders over 190cm) so as long as you pass one of these you are OK. You pass the 85cm one so should be fine.

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:43 am

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rule ... nglish.PDF
Section 1.3 applies.

Here are the pertinent regs:

1.3.013 The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing
through the bottom bracket spindle
. This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle
ridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint,
keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre); however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the
saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.
The peak of the saddle can be move forward until the vertical line passing through the
bottom bracket spindle where that is necessary for morphological reasons
. By
morphological reasons should be understood everything to do with the size and limb
length of the rider.
Any rider who, for these reasons, considers that he needs to use a bicycle of lesser
dimensions than those given shall inform the commissaires' panel to that effect at the
time of the bike check.
Only one exemption for morphological reasons may be requested; either the peak of the
saddle can be moved forward or the handlebar extensions can be moved forward, in
accordance with Article 1.3.023
.


1.3.023 For road time trials and individual and team pursuit on the track, a fixed extension may
be added to the steering system; in this instance, the height difference between the
elbow support points and the highest and lowest points of the handlebar extension
(including gear levers) must be less than 10 cm
. It is also possible to add a handlebar
extension for the 500 m and kilometre time trials on the track, but in this case, the position
of the tip of the saddle must be at least 5 cm behind the vertical plane passing through
the bottom bracket axle.
The distance between the vertical line passing through the bottom bracket axle and the
extremity of the handlebar may not exceed 75 cm, with the other limits set in article
1.3.022 (B,C,D) remaining unchanged. Elbow or forearm rests are permitted (see
diagram «Structure (1B)»).
For road time trial competitions, controls or levers fixed to the handlebar extension may
not extend beyond the 75 cm limit.
For the track and road competitions covered by the first paragraph, the distance of 75
cm may be increased to 80 cm to the extent that this is required for morphological
reasons
; «morphological reasons» should be taken as meaning anything regarding the
size or length of the rider's body parts. A rider who, for this reason, considers that he
needs to make use of a distance between 75 and 80 cm must inform the commissaires'
panel at the time of the bike check.
For riders that are 190 cm tall or taller, the horizontal distance between the vertical lines
passing through the bottom bracket axle and the extremity of the handlebar extensions
including all accessories may be extended to 85 cm.

Only one exemption for morphological reasons may be requested; either the handlebar
extension can be moved forward or the peak of the saddle can be moved forward, in
accordance with Article 1.3.013
.

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:48 am

IOW, what DD said.

however those are not the only requirements, so it's worth it to check compliance with all relevant regulations.

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:45 am

Ok thanks
The saddle position needs to change for uci compliance.
Cant really move the extensions as elbows will hit knees.

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:00 pm

Back a few days now from a few weeks interstate on holiday.
I did a 16 KmTT on Monday and surprised myself (in a good way) with the time and power.
I managed to fit in 2 spin bike workouts ( a few days apart) in the middle of the holiday and I think this has
helped to minimise any fitness loss.
I am well above where I was at exactly 12 months ago so am feeling pretty confident I will
kill a few PBs between now and April.

Initial goals: Get 25 min ave power to 280 (currently about 265-270)
Get Ftp to 260 ( currently not sure but was about 253 a few months back)

Now if the rain would stop and the sun would come out...

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:55 am

8)

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
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linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:23 am

Often I have very little time for training.
On days like that is 20 or 30 minutes of sweetspot of any real value or should I do ftp+ workouts when time is tight?
That still takes an hour from deciding to do it, doing it, having a shower etc.

Also, is 40 minutes of sweetspot a superior workout to 2 twenty minute blocks with a few minutes zone 1/2 between?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby g-boaf » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:37 am

linds wrote:Often I have very little time for training.
On days like that is 20 or 30 minutes of sweetspot of any real value or should I do ftp+ workouts when time is tight?
That still takes an hour from deciding to do it, doing it, having a shower etc.

Also, is 40 minutes of sweetspot a superior workout to 2 twenty minute blocks with a few minutes zone 1/2 between?


sweet-spot is good because it isn't as taxing as doing a FTP or greater for 2x20 minutes. You can back up the sweet-spot from one day to the next. Where as the other way, some people cannot manage to do those for a couple of consecutive days.

Sweet spot and volume is one way to get the gains. The other way is doing the FTP or above efforts, if you can handle those, but be aware that those are really exhausting.

You can also try the old way of doing 10min+ intervals at low cadence (55-60rpm) and about 90-92%. If that feels a little bit too easy, then try going up five watts. If you wanted, you do those style intervals for a one or two hour block if you are crazy. I've seen that done, and on a bike with an enormous front chain ring. :shock:

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:42 am

Thanks G-boaf

So if I had choice between sweetspot of 2 x 20 or 1 x 40...which one might offer the better adaptive result over time?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby g-boaf » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:08 pm

I'm going to suggest the 1x40. If it starts to feel easy, just bump up the power level.

If you wanted to make it harder, you could make the effort longer, 60 minutes or 90 minutes if you really want a serious workout. But you'd need a rest day after that.

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:59 pm

linds wrote:
Initial goals: Get 25 min ave power to 280 (currently about 265-270)
Get Ftp to 260 ( currently not sure but was about 253 a few months back)



I wrote the above early September. I have been training regularly, generally indoors.
Today I was due for an indoor 20 min power test and PR'd with 276 (AP and NP).
I am generally a bit lower indoors than out so very happy with this. My training is having some good effect.

Training peaks now tells me my FTP has risen to 262 - that is one goal reached :-)...next target for FTP is 265.

Now onto the next goal which is 25 minute power to 280. I think I must be very close to this now and will test soon outdoors.

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:46 pm

16km TT today.

24min 13 sec ( PR 24.01)
Ave sp 39.7kph
NP 278 (PR and only 2w off current goal power for this distance)
4km splits - 278/285/266/281 - happy enough with the pacing. Slight positive power split with bigger numbers into the (cross)wind and uphill but still had a some left at the end to not die in the last 2 km.

Pretty happy with this from a power perspective.
Happy with the time too considering that I didnt have aero shoe covers on and not shaved.
Also the wind was a solid 20-25 kph NNW on the W-E ( up and back) course so not optimal for a great time.
Last edited by linds on Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:18 pm

A couple of my rear wheels including this one (a disc) do not fit centrally between the rear drops. It needs to go about 2mm to the right.

Image

Can this be remedied? I wonder what aero penalty this causes?

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:52 pm

I have had a close look at how all my rear wheels fit my TT frame.
I have 2 discs and each fits like the photo above, not central by about 2mm.
I have 2 spoked wheels that fit very centrally and nicely..... :shock:
I can only conclude that , by coincidence, that both my disc wheels are slightly misaligned.
That is the axle is not perfectly perpendicular to the plane of the wheel.

I can manually position the disc wheel to be close to central by sliding the drive side of the axle to the rear of the bike by about 1mm then clamping in that position.
However would the quick release skewer hold it there in riding conditions?
And is that safe?

Alternately I can forget about it.....but I like things to fit properly.....

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