How to train for 20km TT

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Derny Driver
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Derny Driver » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

linds wrote:Been a bit unmotivated to ride as my mother died a month ago.

Sorry to hear that mate. Hope youre okay. I just lost my dad too. Puts things into perspective. Life is relationships.

linds
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:48 am

Thanks Derny hope you are travelling ok too.
It is surreal for someone who has literally always been there to literally not be there.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:37 am

I have come across some interesting 'facts' about the training zone distribution of (elite) atheletes recently The gist is that something like 70 to 80% of time is spend around zone 2. I am sure the experienced people in here already know this. How does this idea apply to the time pressured recreational cyclist with performance goals? Say I have 6 hours a week to train - should I spend at least 4 of those in and around zone 2 - or am I better off with a stronger bias towards zone 3, 4 and 5?
Currently my distribution is something like 60% zone3/4/5, 40 % lower. This comes from having a sweetspot focus with warm up/warm down, mixed up with races every few weeks and other short high intensity workouts.
I have been making slow gains with my approach but am wondering if the time can be better spent.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:53 am

I am looking into how to optimise the speed of my old shape 404 ( 2007 I think)
That is the shape where the braking surfaces are narrower than the toroidal bulge of the wheel.
I have been looking into how to maximise the speed of this wheel by minimising aero drag. Currently using Conti GP4000 23mm. It looks like it will be worth trying a 20mm tire ( like the conti SS) to reduce the amount the tire sidewall protrudes beyond the brake surface as this is where the aero penalties are especially in higher yaw conditions.
According to the 'blather about bikes' website the conti Supersonic 20mm has a good low rolling resistance for a narrow tire - so if it also improves the aero characteristics of the wheel then it might be quite good?
There will probably be a comfort tradeoff and an increased risk of pinch flatting..but for a 16 km TT maybe worth a try.
Any views on this - or experiences of others who have used the old 404?
thanks
Last edited by linds on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

g-boaf
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:36 pm

linds wrote:I am looking into how to optimise the speed of my old shape 404 ( 2007 I think)
That is the shape where the braking surfaces are narrower than the toroidal bulge of the wheel.
I have been looking into how to maximise the speed of this wheel by minimising aero drag. Currently using Conti GP4000 23mm. It looks like it will be worth trying a 20mm tire ( like the conti SS) to reduce the amount the tire sidewall protrudes beyond the brake surface as this is where the aero penalties are especially in higher yaw conditions.
According to the 'blather about bikes' website the conti Supersonic 20mm has a good low rolling resistance for a narrow tire - so if it also improves the aero characteristics of the wheel then it might be quite good?
There will probably be a comfort tradeoff and an increased risk of pinch flatting..but for a 10km TT maybe worth a try.
Any views on this - or experiences of others who have used the old 404?
thanks


Hope things are going better for you now. My condolences.

How did you go with the helmet? I have tried a Bambino myself, it was surprisingly comfortable to wear, not too hard to get on or off. I did notice it makes a surprisingly big difference in top speed compared to S-Works Evade helmet I normally wore back then.

I've never tried tyres narrower than 23mm, so I couldn't really advise you on those.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:02 am

Thks gboaf

Havent got a new helmet just yet but thinking I will try a giro selector as they have adjustable (short and long) tail configurations.
I have ordered a conti supersonic 20mm. will be interesting to see if I can notice any difference.

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Derny Driver
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Derny Driver » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:00 pm

linds wrote:I am looking into how to optimise the speed of my old shape 404 ( 2007 I think)...
Any views on this - or experiences of others who have used the old 404?
thanks

Mate i think you are taking the marginal gains idea a bridge too far.
The poofteenth of a millisecond gained by making the tyre more aero to the rim will be lost in the rolling resistance.
Last edited by Derny Driver on Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby Derny Driver » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:13 pm

linds wrote:I have come across some interesting 'facts' about the training zone distribution of (elite) atheletes recently The gist is that something like 70 to 80% of time is spend around zone 2. I am sure the experienced people in here already know this. How does this idea apply to the time pressured recreational cyclist with performance goals? Say I have 6 hours a week to train - should I spend at least 4 of those in and around zone 2 - or am I better off with a stronger bias towards zone 3, 4 and 5?
Currently my distribution is something like 60% zone3/4/5, 40 % lower. This comes from having a sweetspot focus with warm up/warm down, mixed up with races every few weeks and other short high intensity workouts.
I have been making slow gains with my approach but am wondering if the time can be better spent.

This is actually a good question and probably worthy of its own thread. Without seeing your weekly log its hard to be specific. Full time bike riders and guys doing 14+ hours training a week need to stick to mostly low zone riding. Time poor people can probably do more in the upper zones because they are having lots of days off and their time on bike is often an hour or less. However you should avoid this idea that because you have less time you can smash yourself every time your bum hits the seat. That is a big mistake. Low zone stuff is just as important as the faster stuff. I would completely avoid zone 3. Ride fast or ride slow. 50-50 would be do-able if you alternate the hard and easy sessions.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:38 am

Will stick to what im doing I think.
Because I enjoy the SS workouts interspersed with race pace or higher with plenty of recovery.
Just did a pb 20 min power of 285.
Have new helmet (giro selector) so looking fwd to getting on the road to see what it feels like.

dalai47
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby dalai47 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:26 pm

linds wrote:Have new helmet (giro selector) so looking fwd to getting on the road to see what it feels like.


Does the Giro now have the AS/NZS 2063 sticker?

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Afraid not.
Didnt occur to me that a nz seller would sell stuff not meeting
local standards.
Hohum
No wonder it was cheap.

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mikesbytes
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:31 pm

linds wrote:Afraid not.
Didnt occur to me that a nz seller would sell stuff not meeting
local standards.
Hohum
No wonder it was cheap.
I also struck this when in NZ. Turns out that it is not mandatory to have the AU NZ sticker in NZ, some of the overseas stickers are also permitted
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: How to train for 16km TT

Postby linds » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:45 pm

Its been a long time since I posted.
I had a long hiatus mid year after a good summer of reaching some performance goals - mainly breaking the 40kph barrier at last.
This included a PB of 23m29sec for my local 16km course.
I started training again early September with a focus on higher intensity and shorter workouts with plenty of recovery. This is because I dont have much time for training. Less than the last year or 2 for one reason or another. It seems to be producing because in that 2 months I have essentially got my 20 minute power back to my best of last summer. Muscle memory or something?
I have had just the one TT effort a couple of weeks ago ( all my training is in the pain cave) and pleasingly I put in a 24min 15 sec ride - only 46 seconds off PB straight off the bat.
The PB hunt is well and truly on for the next few months and I am enjoying getting back into it again after a period of low motivation.

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:35 pm

With reference to a post I made a while back re power zone distribution for effective training I thought I would have look at mine. About 44% zone 1/2 and 48% zone 3/4 with 8% above threshold in 5 and 6.
I don't do any zone 3 specific training so that is incidental on the way to zone 4 or 5 where I do most of my training . After reading Joe Friels' book 'Fast After 50' I think I will build more VO2 max intervals into my training (and less sweetspot) for a while and see where that gets me. I will put in more zone 2 with longer warm ups perhaps.

I have been happy enough to regain my form from last summer with the last 2 to 3 months of training but I want to improve my 20 minute power and 16km TT power to new highs over the summer. So this is strategy 1.

Image

g-boaf
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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:43 pm

linds wrote:With reference to a post I made a while back re power zone distribution for effective training I thought I would have look at mine. About 44% zone 1/2 and 48% zone 3/4 with 8% above threshold in 5 and 6.
I don't do any zone 3 specific training so that is incidental on the way to zone 4 or 5 where I do most of my training . After reading Joe Friels' book 'Fast After 50' I think I will build more VO2 max intervals into my training (and less sweetspot) for a while and see where that gets me. I will put in more zone 2 with longer warm ups perhaps.

I have been happy enough to regain my form from last summer with the last 2 to 3 months of training but I want to improve my 20 minute power and 16km TT power to new highs over the summer. So this is strategy 1.



That's worth a try doing those high percentage intervals. I've done them and they do work, but they are really, really hard. I think it's only like two of those workouts during the working week, they are really taxing. Then do whatever you want on the weekend in normal riding (longer distances).

Spend three or four weeks and see how you go. Have fun. :twisted:

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Re: How to train for 20km TT

Postby linds » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:27 am

Thks Gboaf
Will give that a try.

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