NP Buster?

[thearthurdog]

Rode a crit Sunday on a course with a 30 - 40 second hill in it each lap. Race was 47 min 30 and I was in a two-man breakaway from the first 30 seconds and stayed like that until the finish. My average power was 315w but normalised was 407w. My FTP is 365w. I normally get a bit of a gap between average and normalised power in a criterium, but never as big as that.

Was this race an NP buster? If you do some research it seems that NP buster rides are EXTREMELY rare. Wondering if this is more a sign to adjust the FTP...

[donncha]

Didn't you already post this on the Wattage group, where Coggan himself told you it was an NP Buster?

Not sure what the rest of us can add to that

As for whether to increase FTP, the answer is yes. On the assumption that your PM is correctly calibrated, then the minimum you could increase to is 387W (407 / 105%) which is still a massive jump. Even after that increase that race would still be on the verge of an NP buster. When did you test your FTP last? Is 390W a plausible FTP for you?

Anyway, recommendation from Coggan's book (which I happened to have been reading last night) is "increase FTP and schedule formal testing to confirm"

[thearthurdog]

Andy also wanted to see the file to confirm (he PMed me), and there is an issue with his email account and he can't receive it, he wanted to look deeper into it.

[thearthurdog]

I had suspected some FTP gains lately, but I think 390w may be pushing things a bit. 375 - 380 possibly.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Andy also wanted to see the file to confirm (he PMed me), and there is an issue with his email account and he can't receive it, he wanted to look deeper into it.

Send it to me, I can share it with him. Andy has a pretty hard nosed server based spam filter.
alex AT rstsport DOT com

Some reading on NP busters:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/ ... art-i.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/ ... rt-ii.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/ ... t-iii.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thearthurdog]

Thanks Alex I will do when I get a chance. I re-read those three blog posts earlier in the week. The part of the NP buster 'story' that doesn't fit for me is that I am not really the 'type' of rider described - posses both a good sprint and a high anaerobic work capacity. I am not a strong sprinter at all (unless it is up a wall after five hours). I do have a big spike in my power profile at 5 minutes though.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Thanks Alex I will do when I get a chance. I re-read those three blog posts earlier in the week. The part of the NP buster 'story' that doesn't fit for me is that I am not really the 'type' of rider described - posses both a good sprint and a high anaerobic work capacity. I am not a strong sprinter at all (unless it is up a wall after five hours). I do have a big spike in my power profile at 5 minutes though.

That may indicate a functional reserve capacity (ability to supply power over threshold levels / anaerobic abilities) that's above average relative to threshold and is certainly the more important component of being an NP buster.

A fuller assessment of longer term data might reveal more, e.g. using the new power duration modelling Andy has developed. I have access to it but am unable to provide public comment/show stuff at this time.

[thearthurdog]

Just emailed now Alex, thanks.

[Strange Rover]

I believe I could do NP buster almost any day of the week...although defiantly not on consecutive days.

My FTP would be about 280w, my 5 minute would be about 390w...I weigh about 78kg...so nothing really special here.

I can do 2 x 20's at about 280-290 on good days...265-275 on less than good days...if I feel half ordinary I don't even try to do 2 x 20's

My 5 second power would be about 1450w.

And I can do just better than 1000w for 30 seconds out of the saddle.

So cruise around for a bit...bang out a couple of 30 second efforts...cruise back home and I get a AP of 164w, NP of 334w for an hour. (there is an additional 2 minutes of rest after the first 30 sec effort and 1 minute after the second that the garmin auto paused in the WKO file...I can't imagine this would change things to much???)

I don't muck around doing this sort of stuff too often because it really wrecks me...I've got three files like this with 30 second efforts...but I could do it tomorrow if I needed to.

Don't know what this sort of ability is good for but Im really, seriously scared of doing any all our efforts. I read of people doing repeats of all out efforts...And I think...man there is no way I could do that. If I do one all out effort of anything more that 30 seconds or so I basically got to get of my bike and lay down for 10 minutes...it wrecks me.

I also really struggle with recovering from my rides...I find it really easy to push to hard and then feel like crap for a week or so. I used to think I was always sick bit now I realise I just pushed to hard or am carrying to much fatigue.

On hard group rides it's almost like I rely on this sort power to hang onto wheels that I really shouldn't be hanging onto when I'm digging deep.

It's almost like my 5 minute and 20 minute is to way too low for what I can do in 30 seconds and I would trade this ability in a heart beat!!

Sam

[Alex Simmons/RST]

It's an aerobic sport, and recovery from any effort, no matter how hard and what energy system used to fuel it, is entirely an aerobic process.

The better your aerobic condition, the less into the red you go on hard forays, the faster you recover from them, the more likely you are to actually recover when taking drafting shelter rather than being on the limit just hanging on, and the more frequently you can go hard when needed/desired.

The ability to go very hard for shortish durations is a powerful weapon, but only if you have the aerobic condition to make it stick, and/or be at the pointy end when it matters.


@thearthurdog - I've got and passed on the files. I can't know if/when Andy will take a look respond though.

[vander]

I had the same thing today, 40min race, it was really tough. It has a corner into an uphill for about 300m on a 1km course. So 40min race I averaged about 280W (got slow in the last 10 30min was 295W) and the normalised power was 357W (362W for 30min). This is surely a massive NP buster. I reckon my FTP is around 310W maybe at best.

[g-boaf]

If I understand it right, the accelerations out of that tight left hand corner then going uphill would be giving you some big numbers there, that would push the NP higher. (I am guessing the course).

[vander]

Nailed it mate. Question for me is how real is the number how close is it to real FTP.

[g-boaf]

I don't think they are that close. If I'm not mistaken the NP can be skewed by big accelerations.

Only way to tell for sure is to do a test.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I had the same thing today, 40min race, it was really tough. It has a corner into an uphill for about 300m on a 1km course. So 40min race I averaged about 280W (got slow in the last 10 30min was 295W) and the normalised power was 357W (362W for 30min). This is surely a massive NP buster. I reckon my FTP is around 310W maybe at best.

40-min is a bit short to call a buster, but in any case, your FTP is probably closer to NP than AP.