Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Krank
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Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Krank » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:53 pm

OK Guys.

Here's the scenario.....
Bike 1 - Neo Smart Indoor Trainer with a 10 speed drivetrain rear cassette. All training on Bike 1 using acquired indoor measured power metrics (including FTP calibrated zones, etc.).

Bike 2 - 11 speed drivetrain rear cassette with P2M power installed. Race and ride long endurance group rides on bike 2.

I will not be using Bike 2 on the NEO at all due to the different speed cassettes and not wanting to compromise my carbon frame in any way. Is it possible to utilise the Bike 1 calibrated power metrics for Bike 2 rides - knowing that different riding conditions, FTP and power meters exist? If so, how? If not, what is my best option to utilise bike 2 power meter, given that I have spent all training time indoors on a different setup?

How do others work around this in similar situation??

Krank

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:22 am

Do some tests on your outdoor bike. Only then can you know.

Bluejay87
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Bluejay87 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:05 am

I would just do at least one ride with bike 2 on your neo and record and compare the two different power outputs to see if there is any significant differences. I'm sure your frame will be fine and as it is a smart trainer you'd be able to find one gear that works and let the trainer/software control the resistance.

Krank
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Krank » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:56 am

Thanks Gents.

g-boaf
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:29 am

The biggest thing outdoor is to keep turning the pedals decently and not coasting. The moment you start coasting, your power numbers go down very quickly.

Carbon frames on trainers should be fine, I see it all the time with various really exotic bikes running with Computrainers which have a habit of burning up rear tyres. Your Tacx NEO doesn't have that problem.

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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:14 pm

FTP on an indoor trainer always seems to be low compared to what is achievable outdoors. Reasons for this are both physiological (heat stress) and psychological (lack of distraction from the discomfort of pushing the intensity for the duration). Heat stress can be managed somewhat with a big enough fan, but the psychological factors are hard to overcome.

I do my FTP test sessions out-of-doors with a P2m Type S power meter on a suitable stretch of road and use that FTP measure for my training zones.

Krank
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Krank » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:48 pm

Thanks Trailgumby.

Interesting to hear you use your outdoor measured FTP for indoor training zones.

I think that's a great idea, novel.

How long have you been employing this strategy?


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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:21 pm

I don' t do regular indoor sessions, especially this time of year since I don't have the requisite BAF(TM)*. My use of the trainer is generally confined to winter months and/or when it is too cold/wet/windy (ie unpleasant/unsafe) to venture outside.

However, when I'm doing intervals, I try to hit and maintain the zones set for particular intervals. Eg sweet spot @88-93% of FTP for 2 x 20 minutes with 5 minute recovery at HR zone 1, usually with a Sufferfest video playing (I just ignore the on-screen prompts and pretend I'm trying to catch the guy in the screen).

I have to say, it's bloody hard to do. Trying to maintain that number is a real punish. BUt that's the whole point I suppose. No slacking off, the PM don't lie.

* Big-Ass Fan

Krank
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Krank » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:38 pm

Well done on the HR Zone 1 intervals.

The P2Max PM sounds great to use. That's next year XMAS present for me...

Do you optimise your position on the bike to maximise your wattage?


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rheicel
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby rheicel » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:52 pm

P2M, I only have heard good about it. I wanna have one too :)
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trailgumby
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:35 pm

rheicel wrote:P2M, I only have heard good about it. I wanna have one too :)

If you have a Rotor 3D+ crank in your collection, I have a spare 110BCD unit lying unused if you are interested.

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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:49 pm

Krank wrote:Do you optimise your position on the bike to maximise your wattage?

Krank

I haven't done a bike fit on the roadie. The seat height is within a few mm of where Blair at The Body Mechanic set it for both my mountain bikes when I went to see him before the 2013 Mont 24hr (ie, adjusted for pedal stack height), and my cleats are as far rearward as they can go. I've been gradually creeping the bars lower as my strength and flexibility improve.

My main focus is on being comfortable, which for me involves some fairly fine margins due to old injuries and non-bike-friendly work (ie, sitting on my ass all day in front of multiple computer screens). My roadie is actually the most comfortable of all my bikes, My bar drop is conservative at about 5cm or so.

I'm back in the mtb shoes at the moment as it has become evident I need to move the Speedplay cleats back to match; I've had some help in another thread sourcing an adapter plate to achieve this, which will help keep my knees happy.

Rex
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Rex » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:42 pm

I had/have a similar problem.

Bike1 - Outdoors only with Powertap P1's
Bike2 - Wahoo kickr

Bike1 FTP always much higher than Bike2.
Even though Wahoo power reads about 5-6% higher than Powertap P1's anyway, I still need to drop the indoor FTP a fair bit to get through the workouts where IF>0.9

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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:02 pm

Rex wrote:I had/have a similar problem.

Bike1 - Outdoors only with Powertap P1's
Bike2 - Wahoo kickr

Bike1 FTP always much higher than Bike2.
Even though Wahoo power reads about 5-6% higher than Powertap P1's anyway, I still need to drop the indoor FTP a fair bit to get through the workouts where IF>0.9

Lower power indoors is pretty common:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2009/ ... ining.html

Rex
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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby Rex » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:12 pm

Thanks Alex,
Great article.

For me, I think it's definitely Intertial Load that I struggle with.
I replaced my KK Road Machine for the Kickr and definitely notice the difference with both, compared to riding outdoors.

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Re: Utilising Indoor Power Metrics for Outdoor Riding

Postby macca33 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:28 pm

I've found that I can hit my numbers easier outside, but it is more difficult to maintain a constant number like you can on the (in my case) Kickr - ERG mode helps a lot.

Other than that, I cannot see why your indoor numbers as measured on a Neo wouldn't translate directly to outside - perhaps wind resistance may play a not-insignificant part, but they'd be relatively close.

cheers
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