Training for Around the Bay

Arbuckle23
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Training for Around the Bay

Postby Arbuckle23 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:36 pm

Righto

I am an older bloke (turn 60 this year), just got in to the cycling thing last year and have had six months building a little fitness, still have a long way to go before I am happy though. I have completed my first two 100 km rides recently.

A big step up now because my brother in law has talked me into entering the 210 km ATB this year with him. So I have around another six months to build my fitness to a higher level.

I usually average 150 to 180 km a week, mostly short rides of 25 km most nights and a bigger ride on the weekend. Time is against me midweek due to work and home commitments. This will get a little harder as the days get shorter as riding around my home after dark is a bit hairy with no street lighting and narrow roads. The 100 km rides have been good and although tired when completed, my recovery has been quick and easy.

My question is how should I train for this big step up? Should I be working toward doing the equivalent distance before the event or get to a shorter distance and step up for the day? I usually ride alone, so my 100 km rides have been with no tow at all.



Look forward to you input.

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Spaniel
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Spaniel » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:20 pm

I'd invest in an indoor trainer to help you keep consistent kms up during the short winter days.

Will leave others to comment on building up to the event.

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Derny Driver
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:22 pm

You are asking almost exactly the same questions as newierider .... so read this, all 13 pages, and then you will get an idea about how to go about it. Any further questions can be answered here.
newie had good success by formulating a training plan and sticking to it. His available time to train was very similar to yours.
Cheers

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=91287

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Derny Driver
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:26 pm

Spaniel wrote:I'd invest in an indoor trainer to help you keep consistent kms up during the short winter days.

Agree. This is really a MUST over winter. If you are 21 and at Uni then you dont need one. If you are married / work / have children / are busy / have limited training time during the week then you NEED one. Spend a couple of hundred bucks. You wont regret it.

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DavidS
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby DavidS » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:52 pm

I just commute, around 240KMs per week, and I'm considering ATB this year and looking at the 210 version. Tried 100 KMs for the first time last year and it was actually easier than I thought it would be. Consistent riding should do it, just find a way to ride many days a week I reckon.

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g-boaf
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby g-boaf » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:46 pm

Newierider did very well, as Derny Driver says, follow that method.

The trainers are damn useful when the weather turns to rubbish, as it did in Sydney recently. If it weren't for the trainer, I'd have done nearly nothing for 1.5 weeks. I love riding bikes, but not in torrential rain, that's silly.

A steady plan of 2x18, 2x30 and 3x10 have been keeping things going, and fairly well. The 2x30 wasn't my idea, something I borrowed from someone else... Listen, ask questions, try it and learn.

For the OP, it's just a matter of more kms, or on a trainer you could do longer intervals. Even at 80-85%, get 3-4 weeks (perhaps 2-3 times a week) of those under your belt and you'll probably start noticing the changes. If those start feeling easy, you can go up a few more percent.

As long as you are smart about it and rest when you are tired, should be fairly simple and you will see measurable improvements. And key also is sticking with your plan long enough to quantify how things are going.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby TheWall » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:45 pm

Based on absolutely no science at all (but personal experience) I believe that if you consistently ride say 150klm in a week (even over a number of rides) you can complete that same 150k distance in one event.

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Derny Driver
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:09 am

TheWall wrote:Based on absolutely no science at all (but personal experience) I believe that if you consistently ride say 150klm in a week (even over a number of rides) you can complete that same 150k distance in one event.

Everyone is different I guess but thats not my experience. 150km a week is not a lot.
My experience is that for many years I consistently trained between 260 -350 km a week, every week, 52 weeks a year. I could win any race up to 70km in length, but once the distance exceeded 80km I ran out of condition badly. Many of these longer races were simply big group handicaps where I was just in a pace line swapping off at a steady speed. I remember getting in the sag wagon at the 80km mark at Wagga to Albury (140km), walking the last 20km in the Wagga Open (115km) ... I rode the Sid Dinnerville (90km) six times and never finished once. Admittedly racing is a different thing, but I certainly would not have any confidence to think I could ride 150km in a day on 150 a week. As I said, everyone is different and I dont doubt you, but I wouldnt recommend such a tiny weekly milage. I'd be aiming for 10 hours bum on bike seat per week, week in and week out.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby g-boaf » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:08 am

TheWall wrote:Based on absolutely no science at all (but personal experience) I believe that if you consistently ride say 150klm in a week (even over a number of rides) you can complete that same 150k distance in one event.


I don't think that's enough.

150km a week is about 21km per day, that's hardly anything. Not nearly enough distance. Doing 150km all in one go is a lot more difficult if you've only done 21km rides per day. You need to ride consistently 140-150km rides for a while, that's the best preparation for a big ride.

I also think long intervals (2x18 or 2x30) are reasonable preparation too, they push you beyond your normal levels of endurance. On a road ride, you generally won't push yourself that hard constantly, you'll ease off for sharp corners, intersections, roll down hills, etc, so those will be easier.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Abby » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:35 am

Derny Driver wrote:
TheWall wrote:Based on absolutely no science at all (but personal experience) I believe that if you consistently ride say 150klm in a week (even over a number of rides) you can complete that same 150k distance in one event.

Everyone is different I guess but thats not my experience. 150km a week is not a lot.
My experience is that for many years I consistently trained between 260 -350 km a week, every week, 52 weeks a year. I could win any race up to 70km in length, but once the distance exceeded 80km I ran out of condition badly. Many of these longer races were simply big group handicaps where I was just in a pace line swapping off at a steady speed. I remember getting in the sag wagon at the 80km mark at Wagga to Albury (140km), walking the last 20km in the Wagga Open (115km) ... I rode the Sid Dinnerville (90km) six times and never finished once. Admittedly racing is a different thing, but I certainly would not have any confidence to think I could ride 150km in a day on 150 a week. As I said, everyone is different and I dont doubt you, but I wouldnt recommend such a tiny weekly milage. I'd be aiming for 10 hours bum on bike seat per week, week in and week out.


I think the key difference here is 'compete' versus 'complete'.

As you say DD, it would be nearly impossible to be competitive in a 150km event on a 150km/week training regime. But I reckon you could definitely participate in and complete a 150km ride, so long as you were really sensible about your pacing (no chasing!), had a rest & stretch at the food stops, and kept up fluids & food throughout the ride.

Don't get me wrong, there is no question it would be a 'stretch goal' type situation. You'd be wrecked by the end! But definitely doable... :-)

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby g-boaf » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:01 am

Abby wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:
TheWall wrote:Based on absolutely no science at all (but personal experience) I believe that if you consistently ride say 150klm in a week (even over a number of rides) you can complete that same 150k distance in one event.

Everyone is different I guess but thats not my experience. 150km a week is not a lot.
My experience is that for many years I consistently trained between 260 -350 km a week, every week, 52 weeks a year. I could win any race up to 70km in length, but once the distance exceeded 80km I ran out of condition badly. Many of these longer races were simply big group handicaps where I was just in a pace line swapping off at a steady speed. I remember getting in the sag wagon at the 80km mark at Wagga to Albury (140km), walking the last 20km in the Wagga Open (115km) ... I rode the Sid Dinnerville (90km) six times and never finished once. Admittedly racing is a different thing, but I certainly would not have any confidence to think I could ride 150km in a day on 150 a week. As I said, everyone is different and I dont doubt you, but I wouldnt recommend such a tiny weekly milage. I'd be aiming for 10 hours bum on bike seat per week, week in and week out.


I think the key difference here is 'compete' versus 'complete'.

As you say DD, it would be nearly impossible to be competitive in a 150km event on a 150km/week training regime. But I reckon you could definitely participate in and complete a 150km ride, so long as you were really sensible about your pacing (no chasing!), had a rest & stretch at the food stops, and kept up fluids & food throughout the ride.

Don't get me wrong, there is no question it would be a 'stretch goal' type situation. You'd be wrecked by the end! But definitely doable... :-)


Having to stop everywhere is not the way to do it. 150km, if it is moderately flat shouldn't be that hard. I don't see why people insist on not preparing for it. It's just silly. You'll be a lot happier being able to ride the whole lot without being fatigued, cramping up, etc.

What happens if you do cramp up badly during the ride? Your 150/200+km event is over. You probably aren't able to complete it because you didn't prepare for it. I just don't see why people do this. Is it some badge of honour? :? Forgive me for sounding grumpy, but people ask for advice, and people like Derny Driver who've got heaps of knowledge and experience chime in with great advice, then people try to say otherwise. Listen to him!

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Abby » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:46 pm

I don't disagree g-boaf! :-)

As an example, I average about 150km/week. Sometimes that's all commuting (3-4 days). Other times that includes a longer ride on the weekend.

I'm not training for anything, just enjoy cycling. Occasionally I enter a 100km+ event. I don't alter my riding regime - I just cross my fingers and see how I go.

I've found if I take my time, stop at the drink/food stops (that's only one or two stops - no different to a weekend ride coffee stop), and don't get red-line fever, that I can definitely finish these events.

Why do I do it? Because it's fun! What a great way to spend a Sunday - riding somewhere new, meeting new people, and pushing yourself to see if your legs are up to the task! I'm always wrecked afterwards, but so what?

Again, don't get me wrong - I always listen whenever Derny Driver is generous enough to share his experience & knowledge. We are genuinely lucky that he does so. If I ever get back into racing (planning to next year), I already have a file of notes that I've cut-&-pasted from his forum posts that I'll be usig to help with my training.

But while I'm just a cruisy participant that squeezes cycling in amongst other higher priorities, well just because I can't put together a proper traiing regime doesn't mean I'm not gonna enter events. But I am entering them just for fun, and I have very realistic expectations of how I'm gonna go (and how I'll feel afterwards!). :-)

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Arbuckle23 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:29 pm

I suppose my main query is whether I need to ensure I have completed a ride at or about that distance prior to the ATB.
Or just increase my century rides up to the mid 100's several times to get me the fitness required?

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Abby » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:33 pm

As Derny Driver stated a number of times in the 'newierider' thread he linked to - the weekend long ride is very much key to the preparation.

While you don't have to have done the full distance, definitely increasing the distance up to the mid-100's (and doing that a few times) will make a big difference come event day... :-)

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:14 pm

Abby wrote:I don't disagree g-boaf! :-)

As an example, I average about 150km/week. Sometimes that's all commuting (3-4 days). Other times that includes a longer ride on the weekend.

I'm not training for anything, just enjoy cycling. Occasionally I enter a 100km+ event. I don't alter my riding regime - I just cross my fingers and see how I go.

I've found if I take my time, stop at the drink/food stops (that's only one or two stops - no different to a weekend ride coffee stop), and don't get red-line fever, that I can definitely finish these events.

Why do I do it? Because it's fun! What a great way to spend a Sunday - riding somewhere new, meeting new people, and pushing yourself to see if your legs are up to the task! I'm always wrecked afterwards, but so what?

Again, don't get me wrong - I always listen whenever Derny Driver is generous enough to share his experience & knowledge. We are genuinely lucky that he does so. If I ever get back into racing (planning to next year), I already have a file of notes that I've cut-&-pasted from his forum posts that I'll be usig to help with my training.

But while I'm just a cruisy participant that squeezes cycling in amongst other higher priorities, well just because I can't put together a proper traiing regime doesn't mean I'm not gonna enter events. But I am entering them just for fun, and I have very realistic expectations of how I'm gonna go (and how I'll feel afterwards!). :-)

Nice to hear your perspective on this sort of thing Abby, thanks for that. Good post.
In regard to my posts, sometimes I have something sensible to say but often I just stir up stuff and often I display a fair bit of ignorance. I was corrected in 2 posts in the bike maintenance section this week where my comments were just plain wrong. So as with all posters on here, we need to assess what is said and take the useful info and ignore the other stuff. But thanks anyway. :wink:

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:21 pm

Arbuckle23 wrote:I suppose my main query is whether I need to ensure I have completed a ride at or about that distance prior to the ATB.
Or just increase my century rides up to the mid 100's several times to get me the fitness required?

I wouldn't recommend trying to knock off a 210 before the event. I am training track pursuiters at the moment and we rarely do the full distance in training. If takes too long to recover from. We do around half distance or three-quarters in training. Im pretty sure marathon runners don't run too many full marathons in training either. Im happy to be corrected but the runners I know do between 10 and 30km in training. A full marathon can wreck your training for weeks.
So aim for maybe 100 to 160 for your longer rides.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby TheWall » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:06 pm

Spot on there Abby. Complete vs compete is a great way to look at it especially when the compete may even just be 'competing' with yourself.

I agree that there is no need to complete (or did I mean compete ha ha) the full ride distance before the event and I believe that even if you maintain your current level of riding completion is on the cards.

If you were to increase your volume of riding (and/or intensity) over the next 6 months the day will be either easier or faster - you just have to decide if it is complete or compete!?!

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby g-boaf » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:20 pm

Arbuckle23 wrote:I suppose my main query is whether I need to ensure I have completed a ride at or about that distance prior to the ATB.
Or just increase my century rides up to the mid 100's several times to get me the fitness required?


I'd probably suggest getting more frequent 100km rides under your belt, and maybe one a bit bigger. But just ride, riding more will help a lot. Some of it is a mental thing where you can know, yeah I can do that, and you know how to pace yourself.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby rodneycc » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:59 am

I agree with Abby that for most of us on here its just for fun. If you want to go flog yourself for 8 or 9 hours and say you have done the whole around the bay thing thats fine but personally I'd rather do the 100km Sorrento to City one year and 130km Geelong to City the next and maybe do some touring around Geelong to Queenscliff and then say I've done around the bay.

And btw last years Sorrento to City in that headwind was not an easy ride (or pleasant or fun). 100kms was more like 150km! So conditions play a part as well. DS must of been going with the wind I reckon (or Frankston return) to say it was easy.
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby im_no_pro » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:22 pm

ATB 210 is a relatively easy ride, particularly if you are doing the loop and get a break at the ferry. I have done the 210 with next to no training (ie <6 rides of <60km in the 6 months prior with no other exercise) and a poor level of fitness. It wasnt quick, but I made it. If you can ride 100km solo you can do the 210 atb easily IMHO provided you use bunches well (but dont freeload all day!) and keep up your fluid/food intake. The only time I have struggled with ATB was when I overestimated my ability and spent too much time pulling bunches while exposed to the wind between werribee and queenscliff, Ive done a mix of the 135/210 a few times now and almost never trained anywhere near what I should have.


edit: as pointed out elsewhere, weather was ugly last year. That may catch you out if underprepared as well. Im glad I wasnt doing it last year.
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DavidS
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby DavidS » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:42 pm

rodneycc wrote:And btw last years Sorrento to City in that headwind was not an easy ride (or pleasant or fun). 100kms was more like 150km! So conditions play a part as well. DS must of been going with the wind I reckon (or Frankston return) to say it was easy.


Hmm, I can see the confusion. I meant I did a 100KM ride last year for the first time, not the 100KM Round the Bay ride (actually it was Ride the Bellarine). I have often thought of doing Round the Bay, but I was sure happy I didn't choose last year to start, that day was horrendous. I know some people who did it, not pleasant at all.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:03 am

First ATB I managed to get three rides over 100km and then a long break of 6 weeks and then 1 week to get back into shape. You'll be fine judging by your mileage. The only thing to watch for is nutrition.

My first time I smashed the first half having never been in such a huge group averaging 35kph (I put 25 on the entry form). Get to the ferry and everything feels great. Eat, boat and then start again and all of a sudden bonk, no problem have a gel, then a bar. At this point I think too much sugar (3 bars and 1 gel) and the stomach packed it. It was a long painful ride 70km back to the city. I put down some slaty nuts (good tip) but they too ka while to kick in.
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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Arbuckle23 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:34 am

Agree with the not smashing myself. I was originally going to do the Sorrento to City leg. But was talked into doing the 210.
Told my brother in law I will do turns downwind :D
He's got me keen now and looking forward to it. A personal achievement for a bloke who only a year ago was 28 kg heavier than I am now and reinvented myself with healthier eating and the bike riding. I am so addicted to the riding now, it will continue for many years.

Thanks for the feed back guys. I will continue to do what I am doing then and get a few more 100 km solo rides in (they were going to be a regular occurrence regardless) and increase to the distance on those a bit more as I go along. A trainer might be on the horizon for those winter nights after work as well.

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:07 pm

Arbuckle23 wrote:
... A personal achievement for a bloke who only a year ago was 28 kg heavier than I am now and reinvented myself with healthier eating and the bike riding. I am so addicted to the riding now, it will continue for many years.

Respect mate ! Wow
Congratulations, that is just brilliant :D

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Re: Training for Around the Bay

Postby Arbuckle23 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:02 am

Thanks. Worked out I can't continue eating as I did when I did a physical job for a living. Only took me 13 years :)
Bike riding is a great medium to assist in weight loss as well.

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