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Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:31 am
by Ross
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/product- ... Mrnr2eLmUk


CUPERTINO, Calif. (BRAIN) — Apple Inc. has applied for a patent that would allow for an indirect measurement of a cyclist's power output, by calculating wind resistance, road surface smoothness, rider position, heart rate and accelleration. The application suggests that by using these factors, gathered from a wearable device that has a GPS, accellerometer, heart rate monitor and other features, it could calculate rider power without the expense of a traditional power meter.

The application, filed Thursday, might suggest that Apple wants to up its game against Garmin, which has seen continued sales growth of its wearables and bike-related products, although Apple's Watch continues to dominate sales in the smart watch category.

The patent application calls for using a wearable device, such as a watch, that would be able to determine the rider's position on the bike, including whether the rider's hands were on the handlebar tops or drops. The system would use known factors, including road grade, traveling direction, speed, and rider position to estimate wind speed and direction and, ultimately, estimate power output.

Last year, Apple was granted 2,102 patents, according to IFI Claims.


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Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:12 am
by Alex Simmons/RST
Yawn

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:37 am
by g-boaf
If anyone can pull it off, Apple can given the sheer amount of resources they have.

However, I don't see people rushing to get rid of their SRM and Pioneer power meters any time soon.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:03 pm
by Alex Simmons/RST
Well it's hardly a novel idea, even using the mathematical model of the physics of cycling, like say iBike have done for more than a decade, to estimate power from measurements of energy demand factors. But hey, if Apple think they can measure wind velocity and direction with a watch, I'm all ears.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:09 pm
by g-boaf
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Well it's hardly a novel idea, even using the mathematical model of the physics of cycling, like say iBike have done for more than a decade, to estimate power from measurements of energy demand factors. But hey, if Apple think they can measure wind velocity and direction with a watch, I'm all ears.


How did iBike manage to get away with that name.. Usually Apple is doing iEverything. In any case, whatever Apple does won't be on my shopping list.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:32 pm
by Thoglette
IFI Claims wrote:Last year, Apple was granted 2,102 patents.

And two dollars to a bucket of horse puckey, they're as laughable as this one. Unfortunately that the way the patent wars

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:39 pm
by silentC
I've always thought it would be neat if Strava could pull in data from the BOM and apply it to your rides. It wouldn't be wildly accurate, given the way wind direction changes around hills etc, but nothing about Strava is particularly accurate anyway.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:49 pm
by adam0bmx0
silentC wrote:I've always thought it would be neat if Strava could pull in data from the BOM and apply it to your rides. It wouldn't be wildly accurate, given the way wind direction changes around hills etc, but nothing about Strava is particularly accurate anyway.


There is an app/software avialable that currently does that, I saw it a couple of weeks ago but cant think of the name.

There is this one;

http://strava-weather-analysis.paperpla ... index.html

But pretty sure it was a different one im thinking of.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:59 pm
by silentC
Cool! I will have a play...

(Just for fun, not because I take it seriously :))

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:01 pm
by andrewjcw
Apple would patent getting out of bed in the morning if they thought they could. Don't get your hopes up...

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:04 pm
by g-boaf
andrewjcw wrote:Apple would patent getting out of bed in the morning if they thought they could. Don't get your hopes up...


All big businesses do that, it's how they compete effectively these days.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:09 pm
by Comedian

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:47 pm
by RobertL
silentC wrote:I've always thought it would be neat if Strava could pull in data from the BOM and apply it to your rides. It wouldn't be wildly accurate, given the way wind direction changes around hills etc, but nothing about Strava is particularly accurate anyway.



I thought that the Strava estimated power figure was reasonably accurate, as long as you accurately enter your bodyweight and the weight of your bike + gear. Is that not the case?

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:56 pm
by silentC
I've never looked that closely at the estimated power figures to be honest. I can't see how it can be all that accurate though because it can't really take into account the conditions. Obviously for the same power output and a given elevation increase, your speed will vary based on the headwind. I guess they use some sort of standard constant for the wind effect.

But generally, Strava relies on GPS and I have seen widely different measurements taken by cyclists on the same ride as me, with elevation gains differing by 100m or more. Distances are usually fairly close. It is what it is, I'm just saying that combining BOM data with your ride is not going to be an exact science, but it's probably no worse than the other inputs and assumptions made.

I checked on segment with the site above. I'd held the KOM since 2014 but one of my mates took it off me a couple of weeks ago. That site said that I had a 10kph tail wind and he had a 20kph tailwind, so I'm happy with that :) Not that he will care :(

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:00 pm
by RobertL
Yeah - I must admit that I was thinking only of the Strava estimated power on the decent climbs, where wind has less impact.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:06 pm
by RobertL
In fact, this guy tested Strava against actual data and found some problems, but that it's pretty accurate on climbs: https://www.velopress.com/how-accurate- ... and-hills/

And then this guy found the opposite: https://stevebalescyclingblog.wordpress ... eal-power/

So, who knows?

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:18 pm
by silentC
Probably depends a lot on your GPS device too. I note the second guy compared data from his Garmin with his iPhone.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:11 am
by find_bruce
This new learning amazes me. Explain to me again how sheep’s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:16 am
by Alex Simmons/RST
RobertL wrote:
silentC wrote:I've always thought it would be neat if Strava could pull in data from the BOM and apply it to your rides. It wouldn't be wildly accurate, given the way wind direction changes around hills etc, but nothing about Strava is particularly accurate anyway.



I thought that the Strava estimated power figure was reasonably accurate, as long as you accurately enter your bodyweight and the weight of your bike + gear. Is that not the case?

Such estimates will be nothing more than some light comic relief.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:20 am
by Alex Simmons/RST
RobertL wrote:In fact, this guy tested Strava against actual data and found some problems, but that it's pretty accurate on climbs: https://www.velopress.com/how-accurate- ... and-hills/

He makes the mistake of thinking the calorie estimate from his power meter data is accurate. It's not - it relies on an assumption about gross efficiency made by the algorithm. Assuming the meter is a good one and it is properly calibrated, then the mechanical energy number will be accurate. But converting that to energy metabolised requires some assumptions. Nailing that down a little tighter for each individual requires laboratory testing but there are still acute variations in gross efficiency.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:23 am
by CKinnard
Apple has always been more about style than substance, and gee whiz consumerism than science.

With their resources they could have applied themselves to making serious medical tech more broadly available. Technology I think would benefit from being dumbed and priced down to fitness enthusiast level is indirect calorimetry and ecg.

Consumer ecg units interpreted by computer algorithms would have enormous potential for unmasking heart pathology sometimes years earlier than otherwise, and prevent more serious morbidity and early mortality. Problems like transient or stress induced arrhythmias, heart valve disease, compromised coronary artery patency could all be picked up earlier with more regular wearing of ecg devices.

And calorimetry provides enormous insight into metabolic rate and substrate usage, which would help people understand bodyweight management better.

Below is one of my favorite pieces of tech that I first used 12 years ago in previous iterations.
http://www.bodpod.com/en/products/cardi ... obile-cpet

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Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:49 am
by madmacca
CKinnard wrote:Apple has always been more about style than substance, and gee whiz consumerism than science.

With their resources they could have applied themselves to making serious medical tech more broadly available. Technology I think would benefit from being dumbed and priced down to fitness enthusiast level is indirect calorimetry and ecg.

Consumer ecg units interpreted by computer algorithms would have enormous potential for unmasking heart pathology sometimes years earlier than otherwise, and prevent more serious morbidity and early mortality. Problems like transient or stress induced arrhythmias, heart valve disease, compromised coronary artery patency could all be picked up earlier with more regular wearing of ecg devices.

And calorimetry provides enormous insight into metabolic rate and substrate usage, which would help people understand bodyweight management better.

Below is one of my favorite pieces of tech that I first used 12 years ago in previous iterations.
http://www.bodpod.com/en/products/cardi ... obile-cpet

Image


When confronted with the regulatory requirements and potential liabilities of the medical device industry, most consumer electronics companies head the other direction FAST. They take a great deal of care NOT to suggest that their devices can be used for medical
(as against sport) purposes. Thank the lawyers for that one.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:42 am
by bychosis
madmacca wrote:When confronted with the regulatory requirements and potential liabilities of the medical device industry, most consumer electronics companies head the other direction FAST. They take a great deal of care NOT to suggest that their devices can be used for medical
(as against sport) purposes. Thank the lawyers for that one.


Don't be silly. There are devices out there that regular consumers can buy that will stop you from ever having to see a dr again! :roll: :roll: :twisted:

This popped up on my faceache feed last night: https://www.itovi.com/technology/. Gonna cancel my latest snake-oil order and throw away my Power Balance band immediately and get ten. :D :shock:

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:55 pm
by CKinnard
bychosis wrote:
madmacca wrote:When confronted with the regulatory requirements and potential liabilities of the medical device industry, most consumer electronics companies head the other direction FAST. They take a great deal of care NOT to suggest that their devices can be used for medical
(as against sport) purposes. Thank the lawyers for that one.


Don't be silly. There are devices out there that regular consumers can buy that will stop you from ever having to see a dr again! :roll: :roll: :twisted:

This popped up on my faceache feed last night: https://www.itovi.com/technology/. Gonna cancel my latest snake-oil order and throw away my Power Balance band immediately and get ten. :D :shock:


It's a changing world.
home testing kits for continuous blood glucose monitoring and ketones, epi pens, home use heart rate monitors, heart rate variability, sphyg's, spirometry, CPAP, humidifers, sleep study harnesses, holter monitors, defibrillators, TENS and ultrasound therapy.
None of this stuff was around for use outside a doctor's surgery or hospital when I was a kid.

Re: Apple applies for patent to calculate cyclists' power from wind resistance and other factors

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:48 pm
by bychosis
You are right, there are plenty of useful medical related devices available to the general public, most of them provide some benefit, others (such as those linked above) just empty your wallet.