Kickr v1 v2 or v3

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hamishm
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Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby hamishm » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm thinking about getting a Kickr, as I'd like a bit more resistance than my Tacx Vortex Smart (which is a great trainer otherwise).

You can still get a v2 from Pushys online, for a couple of hundred bucks less than the v3. But a lightly used v1 is cheaper still. It doesn't seem like the differences are very big - a bit quieter, a bit easier to move, but otherwise much the same.

Does anyone have anything to add? Any reason why I wouldn't be happy with a v1 at the right price?

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Tim
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby Tim » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:04 pm

I ended up buying a Cycleops Hammer mainly because the LBS sell them at a good price.
I came to the conclusion there probably isn't all that much difference between most of the top-of the-range trainers. I had the option of buying a Wahoo locally but stuck with the Hammer.
The Cycleops flywheel weighs approx 20 lbs whereas the Wahoo is around 12 from memory. Apparently the heavier flywheel has a more realistic road feel, supposedly.
The Hammer fits through-axle bikes and wider mountain bike rear forks straight from the box. Not so the Wahoo's (I think). No cassette is supplied with the Hammer but is with the Wahoo (I think).
Be aware that the Kickr 1 has trouble fitting some small (140mm) rear disc bikes. The caliper can interfere with the trainer body.
The Hammer is made in the USA which may or may not be a good thing. No idea where the Wahoo is made, it probably doesn't matter.
The point of my post is that the Kickr is the hot seller at the moment but there are a few other options around.

PS. Buy a USB extension cable and an Ant+ dongle. It seems most of these units won't communicate properly at any distance greater than a metre or two from your computer/phone/ipad.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby tcdev » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:42 pm

Checkout GP Lama's (Shane Miller) YouTube videos on the Kickrs... from memory there was a functional enhancement to the v2 over the v1, but the V3 isn't a lot different except the ability to attach to the Cimbr, and possibly better clearance for disc brakes?!? Sorry, no real experience with them here, just trying to recall the videos...

His indoor trainer review page:

https://gplama.blogspot.com.au/p/indoor-trainer-guide-gplama.html
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Tim
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby Tim » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:23 pm

The minor issues raised in GP Lama’s cursory review on the Hammer have been adressed in a more recent firmware update.
There is no resistance lag riding Zwift on my Hammer.
I don’t know about power reading accuracy as I have nothing to compare with. Plus or minus a few Watts is of no consequence to me.

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queequeg
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby queequeg » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:09 am

For the Kickr, the V2 changed how power is measured, removing the strain gauges and apparently making it less likely to be damaged (apparently the Kickr1 has this issue)
The V2 is also quieter and has better compatibility with disc frames.
The V3 is functionally identical to the V2, but the rear end of the trainer can now pivot without damaging the dropouts on the bike, which is required if you add the climbing thingy to the front. That is, you can only use the climbing gadget if you have the Kickr3
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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hamishm
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby hamishm » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:59 pm

I have an old 10 speed bike dedicated to the trainer so I don't care about disc or through axle compatibility and I wouldn't pay lots more for the climb feature.

How will the noise level of either kickr compare with my wheel on trainer? The kickr 2 is definitely quieter but maybe the 1 is good enough. Noise isn't a huge issue in my setup fortunately.

Intrigued by the comment about power accuracy issues on the model 1 though.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby macca33 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:56 pm

They're all good - Kickr, Hammer, Direto, etc, etc... Choose your price-point and go from there - I'd certainly only recommend direct-drive, wheel off trainers and these are good examples.

cheers
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andrewjcw
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby andrewjcw » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:03 pm

This video has a good overview of the different trainers.

As already covered 1 - 2 had a pretty big change in the way power is calibrated (although I think I've seen more complaints from the new ones than old ones), and the v3 has the climb thingy compatibility (lolz).

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby tcdev » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:12 pm

queequeg wrote:For the Kickr, the V2 changed how power is measured, removing the strain gauges and apparently making it less likely to be damaged (apparently the Kickr1 has this issue)

Ahh yes, that's what I was thinking of!

I'm saving my pennies atm for a smart trainer. I've decided to go for either the Kickr or Neo Tacx. Favouring the Tacx unless I can find the Kickr for a good deal less - I like the idea of not having to do regular spin-downs.
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g-boaf
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:19 am

tcdev wrote:
queequeg wrote:For the Kickr, the V2 changed how power is measured, removing the strain gauges and apparently making it less likely to be damaged (apparently the Kickr1 has this issue)

Ahh yes, that's what I was thinking of!

I'm saving my pennies atm for a smart trainer. I've decided to go for either the Kickr or Neo Tacx. Favouring the Tacx unless I can find the Kickr for a good deal less - I like the idea of not having to do regular spin-downs.


Which one needs the regular spin downs, Neo or Kickr? I've also been thinking of getting a smart trainer, but haven't decided on which one yet. Saving pennies as well.

I'd have gone for a Computrainer if they were still available because they are very reliable.

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biker jk
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby biker jk » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:29 am

g-boaf wrote:
tcdev wrote:
queequeg wrote:For the Kickr, the V2 changed how power is measured, removing the strain gauges and apparently making it less likely to be damaged (apparently the Kickr1 has this issue)

Ahh yes, that's what I was thinking of!

I'm saving my pennies atm for a smart trainer. I've decided to go for either the Kickr or Neo Tacx. Favouring the Tacx unless I can find the Kickr for a good deal less - I like the idea of not having to do regular spin-downs.


Which one needs the regular spin downs, Neo or Kickr? I've also been thinking of getting a smart trainer, but haven't decided on which one yet. Saving pennies as well.

I'd have gone for a Computrainer if they were still available because they are very reliable.


The wattbike atom looks good but not yet available in Australia.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:01 am

biker jk wrote:The wattbike atom looks good but not yet available in Australia.


Forgot about that one, but it's out of my price range anyhow. It's a good idea, resembles those PowerWatts bikes - but with power integrated rather than some addon trainer solution.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby tcdev » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:41 am

g-boaf wrote:Which one needs the regular spin downs, Neo or Kickr? I've also been thinking of getting a smart trainer, but haven't decided on which one yet. Saving pennies as well.


Cited from https://gplama.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/tacx-neo-smart-t2800-user-review-june.html

"Not having to calibrate or perform a regular spindown is win with the Neo."

I've heard it mentioned elsewhere as well. Being fundamentally lazy when it comes to maintenance, etc this really appeals to me.

I think ultimately though, I'd be happy with either as they're both bound to have their own niggly issues. If there's only a few hundred $$$ difference in price between them, I'd probably opt for the Neo for the aforementioned reason, and I also have to admit that the road surface simulation sounds interesting, even if the novelty wears off eventually. I can't see myself ever wanting the Climb option, so that's not a factor for me. But if I did opt for the Kickr over the Neo, I'd likely go for v3 anyway for the incremental improvements.

I was motivated last night by this thread to actually list some stuff on eBay; still a long way short of the required funds but a start in the right direction. ;)
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queequeg
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby queequeg » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:42 pm

g-boaf wrote:
tcdev wrote:
queequeg wrote:For the Kickr, the V2 changed how power is measured, removing the strain gauges and apparently making it less likely to be damaged (apparently the Kickr1 has this issue)

Ahh yes, that's what I was thinking of!

I'm saving my pennies atm for a smart trainer. I've decided to go for either the Kickr or Neo Tacx. Favouring the Tacx unless I can find the Kickr for a good deal less - I like the idea of not having to do regular spin-downs.


Which one needs the regular spin downs, Neo or Kickr? I've also been thinking of getting a smart trainer, but haven't decided on which one yet. Saving pennies as well.

I'd have gone for a Computrainer if they were still available because they are very reliable.


The spindown on the Kickr is an easy process that takes about 30 seconds. It doesn't need to be done before every ride. I only run it every couple of weeks, and the calibration level rarely (if ever) changes.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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hamishm
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby hamishm » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:40 am

Thanks everyone. The v1 I had my eye on has sold anyway.

All the Australian shops online seem to be selling the v3 for full price ($1599), except Pushys who also has the v2 still for $200 less. At this rate I'll wait till Pushys has a sale again. Has anyone else seen a better price, or a second hand one?

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hamishm
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby hamishm » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:41 am

The Elite Direto looks good too but isn't supported by Fulgaz yet unfortunately.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby g-boaf » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 pm

I ended up getting a Tacx Neo. I'm going to set it up with PerfPro Studio.

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Tim
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby Tim » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:18 pm

g-boaf wrote:I'm going to set it up with PerfPro Studio.


As I'm on the lookout for good workout and analysis apps, why this one?
I'd not heard of it before and Trainer Road was looking like my being my choice but I'm interested in the others.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby g-boaf » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:26 pm

Tim wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I'm going to set it up with PerfPro Studio.


As I'm on the lookout for good workout and analysis apps, why this one?
I'd not heard of it before and Trainer Road was looking like my being my choice but I'm interested in the others.


I've got experience with that software already and I know where to get good workouts for it, plus it is no trouble to create your own. You just have to understand the theory behind the intervals and then you can design stuff that will work properly and not be too excessive.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby lewie15 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:31 am

I'm pretty sure that if you buy the V1, you can update the firmware, so power is measured in the same way as the version 2. I remember this because when I had my V1 a lot of people didn't want to update the firmware because they preferred the power to be measured through the strain gauges.

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kb
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby kb » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:52 pm

lewie15 wrote:I'm pretty sure that if you buy the V1, you can update the firmware, so power is measured in the same way as the version 2. I remember this because when I had my V1 a lot of people didn't want to update the firmware because they preferred the power to be measured through the strain gauges.

Out on the phone atm but I think this covers it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3cYja0Igev0
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby macca33 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:39 pm

lewie15 wrote:I'm pretty sure that if you buy the V1, you can update the firmware, so power is measured in the same way as the version 2. I remember this because when I had my V1 a lot of people didn't want to update the firmware because they preferred the power to be measured through the strain gauges.


Yes, you can - but don't be fooled - Kickr V2 & V3 have different internal hardware that was designed around the 'model mode' method of power measurement. Kickr V1 was designed for a working strain gauge to measure power, thus, has lesser ability to accurately measure power through braking, as required by the model mode method.

I have a V1 and still use the strain gauge because the later firmware and model mode was wildly inaccurate in my case.

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby g-boaf » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:44 pm

Something strange with the Neo I've found. If you stop pedalling it won't ease off the resistance, then it is next to impossible to get going again.

In PerfPro you expect a "resistance off" message to appear until you start pedalling again.

Is there a setting for the Tacx to control that?

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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby queequeg » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am

g-boaf wrote:Something strange with the Neo I've found. If you stop pedalling it won't ease off the resistance, then it is next to impossible to get going again.

In PerfPro you expect a "resistance off" message to appear until you start pedalling again.

Is there a setting for the Tacx to control that?


You are probably running in ERG mode. It is called the Spiral of Death.
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g-boaf
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Re: Kickr v1 v2 or v3

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:57 am

queequeg wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Something strange with the Neo I've found. If you stop pedalling it won't ease off the resistance, then it is next to impossible to get going again.

In PerfPro you expect a "resistance off" message to appear until you start pedalling again.

Is there a setting for the Tacx to control that?


You are probably running in ERG mode. It is called the Spiral of Death.


It is in erg mode yes, but what it should do in my experience (I've used PerfPro before on a Computrainer) is that it should recognise that you've stopped pedalling and then give a little message in the bottom of the status window that says "resistance off" until you start pedalling again, and then it will ramp up to the intended load so you can at least get going again:

Image

I've not found anything in the software that can be set, it should just happen automatically (as it would on a Wahoo Kickr), so I'm guessing it is something wonky with the setup of the trainer itself. I've also noticed the cadence seems to be reading too low - so that might be something to do with it. :? On a Kickr, it reduces the resistance to 50w until you start pedalling and then it smoothly ramps it up to the intended load (marked as LOAD on the rider details box).

http://perfprostudio.com/FAQs.aspx?F=66
Last edited by g-boaf on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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